Private sims can make their own rules??
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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10-20-2009 21:51
From: Ceka Cianci well actually those beds are not adult buy nature as far as the rating system goes..
The reason you can sell them on mature land is because we can also own and use them on mature land and they can also be rated as mature content..
there is nothing that we could create that would be considered adult only rated and not be able to also be rated as mature content..
Whatever is allowed as far as content and activities go is allowed in a mature private home that keeps them as private uses..
I know you know that it is all about the advertising and making it known to the public..
i'm just trying to say that there is no such thing as an item that cannot also be rated as mature and be used as mature..no matter what..adult content is not allowed in a mature rated sim..it has to adjust it's rating and become mature content to be sold or used in those sims..
what the owner of that item does after the purchase will determine if it is to remain mature or adult content..
bleh i hope i am not sounding insulting here..i'm just trying to be informative on things i see that may still be misunderstood is all..
I may be misunderstanding what you were saying as well..if so i apologize.. How about porn photos and porn videos.......that surely would be adult rated?
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
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10-20-2009 21:58
From: Pussycat Catnap Yeah... but you know what...
I may have grown up in "the hood" - the real one, not the one some people play in, but the one where you live dirt poor, in the middle of overwhelming violence, drugs, and hopelessness...
But I don't live there anymore... and I could care less what the outside world thinks they think is cool.
Saying 'snitch' is uncool is just so high school...
Its not about that, its about building a better sustainable community. Which -does- involve making sure the social contract is followed and the norms and rules are adhered to.
As for this whole 'what is adult content' - I don't think there's any disagreement over that in the thread, just a lot of cross-talk...
Anarchy sounds cool in the coffee shop politics... but... it doesn't work. And it isn't SL. There are rules here. Like it or not, people have real life incomes at stake, and for that to work the system of competition needs to be as fair as possible.
That means reporting real violations to the proper authority, and putting the heat on that authority to use proper judgment over its power - to neither abuse by lack of enforcement nor over enforcement. Its a two sided effort. You don't just AR real violations, you also get on the Lindens to be clear about their rules, and to properly enforce them. One side cannot be effective without the other - and if the effort is abandoned, SL will collapse.
This isn't some MMO where the 'hackers' and 'gold farmers' are just a nuisance to the advancement of your video game character... its a legitimate part of a real world economy. Harm to that is harm to people who have legitimate real world economic interests at stake.
(gold farmers in MMOs are part of the real world economy, but not legitimately so - harm to their interests is a good thing). Well as long as LL have AR'ers like you around....they'll be just fine, as you'll be doing their work for them! Erm ghettos and hoods? I live in nice part of London suburbia......yet even here, grassing on other people is not the done thing! Sorry.....not my sport! .
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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10-20-2009 22:00
From: Rene Erlanger Erm ghettos and slums? I live in nice part of London suburbia......yet even here, grassing on other people is not the done thing! Sorry.....not my sport! Is screwing your neighbors by breaking the law is acceptable there? |
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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10-20-2009 22:17
From: Rene Erlanger How about porn photos and porn videos.......that surely would be adult rated? well you can have those in your house actually.. Nothing has really changed with the way mature sims were before..only the business side of it has.. if they have to cam in my house to see it then that is their choice..but i've done everything i was asked to keep it out of site.. if it advertises or publicly promotes it then no..but if me and my bf decide to watch one in my house we are not breaking the tos and actually watching mature content  i know it sounds silly to call it mature content because rl considers it adult..but in here all this was considered mature before as well..just the business or promoted side is adult in here now..the private side pretty much can do the same as before.. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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10-21-2009 01:37
From: Milla Janick Is screwing your neighbors by breaking the law is acceptable there? Everyone breaks the law, all the time, they can't help it. I've cut through a parking lot to avoid traffic now and then. You know the excuses you make for that... oh, let's see, is there a tobacconist here? Oh, no, that's a laundrette. Oh well, better luck next time... That's BREAKING THE BLOODY LAW. Yes. Really. Even if you weren't thinking criminal at the time. Would you call the cops over that? Is that SCREWING THE NEIGHBORS? Sometimes, yes, breaking the law is clearly SCREWING THE NEIGHBORS. Other times, well, damn, it really does fall into "that's none of my bloody business". |
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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10-21-2009 03:35
From: Rene Erlanger [...]If i typed BDSM and had Mature ticked in Search.....it came up as LL message explaining that this was a Adult keyword blah blah blah Right; I should have been more specific. The folks who are "playing it straight" have all moved to Adult sims, or removed adult content and adult search terms, in response to those LL emails. I guess that's a kind of enforcement. But what's making those of us on Zindra crazy are the folks who've just probed the edges of the Search filters to find terms that they can use on Mature to describe Adult stuff, and there seems to be nearly no enforcement attempts at all against that. The example I cited was "escorts" (instead of "escort" , but there are many more--indeed, the whole enterprise is fraught with Fail: it's hopeless to filter out every possible "adult" term. And that's fine, too--in fact, it would be a positive boon *if* somebody were out there searching those unfiltered naughty words and wielding the banhammer on repeat offenders. Instead, we see some people brazenly moving the very same, very "adult" content *back* to Mature land, getting high search hit rates for ever-so-slightly revised terms, with total impunity (as far as we can see, anyway). Undoubtedly it's the predictable LL slow-rolled enforcement (assuming enforcement is ever to come), but the clock has been ticking on compliant Adult businesses for months now, and lack of enforcement is killing them just as surely as the stupid policy itself.
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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10-21-2009 07:29
From: Milla Janick Is screwing your neighbors by breaking the law is acceptable there? Bizarre comment! I just can't make the connection breaking a RL law....is screwing the neighbourhood?? I'd only be screwing myself!. These RL analogies are becoming more bizarre by the minute......why should i report someone that has camping bots (LL said they don't want AR's).....why should i report someone selling what might be or might not be Adult content. Apart from Ceka and a few others...I don't think the community as a whole have gotten a proper handle what is acceptable and what is not.....there are still a few grey areas. Like i said in earlier post...i was against adult verification and an Adult rating system, so i'll be damned if i'm going to help LL enforce in what i consider being stupid rules & policies.
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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10-21-2009 07:42
From: Rene Erlanger Bizarre comment! I just can't make the connection breaking a RL law....is screwing the neighbourhood?? I'd only be screwing myself! Bizarre? If someone is stealing from their neighbors, they're screwing them. If someone is running adult content on Mature or PG land, they're stealing customers from the businesses who are playing by the rules. |
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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10-21-2009 07:52
From: Teagan Parnas I didnt go looking for adult content on mature sims and its not a personal matter as some seem to be saying it is. I went shopping for something and came across something i thought shouldnt be their. If everyone simply Tped back out and did nothing do you think LL ( or sim owners ) will enforce the rules.
So now it seems the answer is simply ban me, doesnt that prove what ive been saying that Private sim owners will enforce their own rules no matter and we just have to put up with it and shut up. That's not true, but I wish that nosyparkers like you WOULD. No offense to you personally, Teagan. But LL's stupid Adult Content policy has upset a lot of residents from the day it was first announced. There are a great many people who will do nothing to help LL enforce this policy. Fingerpointers and tattletales do not make for much of a feeling of community.
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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10-21-2009 07:52
From: Rene Erlanger Bizarre comment! I just can't make the connection breaking a RL law....is screwing the neighbourhood?? I'd only be screwing myself!.
These RL analogies are becoming more bizarre by the minute......why should i report someone that has camping bots (LL said they don't want AR's).....why should i report someone selling what might be or might not be Adult content. Apart from Ceka and a few others...I don't think the community as a whole have gotten a proper handle what is acceptable and what is not.....there are still a few grey areas.
Like i said in earlier post...i was against adult verification and an Adult rating system, so i'll be damned if i'm going to help LL enforce in what i consider being stupid rules & policies. I have admit I agree with this in general. A lot of these RL analogies just don't work for me either. SL is not RL, at least for me. Unless I were to see something blatantly illegal or criminal with RL implications: large scale theft, swindling, child porn or the like, I'm not going to bother about it. It's not my job. I've never filed an AR, and really don't see any reason to do so except in cases mentioned above. If that makes me a bad citizen/resident/customer/player, oh well....*shrugs. That being said, if you feel you are being directly affected by someone's actions and feel it is ARable, by all means do so. But otherwise, I can't equate minding my own business in SL to watch my RL neighbor's home being broken into and doing nothing. That's just too much of a stretch for me.
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Pussycat Catnap
Sex Kitten
Join date: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 1,131
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10-21-2009 08:48
From: Rene Erlanger Bizarre comment! I just can't make the connection breaking a RL law....is screwing the neighbourhood?? I'd only be screwing myself!.
These RL analogies are becoming more bizarre by the minute......why should i report someone that has camping bots (LL said they don't want AR's).....why should i report someone selling what might be or might not be Adult content. SL might be just a social version of Pac Man to you, but for man it is a RL income generator. People who engage in unfair competition, harm those who do not. They hurt their RL ability to earn a living. These aren't just analogies, it is RL. |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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10-21-2009 08:57
From: Pussycat Catnap SL might be just a social version of Pac Man to you, but for man it is a RL income generator.
People who engage in unfair competition, harm those who do not. They hurt their RL ability to earn a living.
These aren't just analogies, it is RL. Last week I had one of my RL houses broken into. I'm furious. Today in SL, a neighbor or two is using campers. I couldn't care less. Both involve RL income....and about the same amounts. The two instances do not equate. |
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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10-21-2009 09:18
From: Milla Janick Bizarre? If someone is stealing from their neighbors, they're screwing them.
If someone is running adult content on Mature or PG land, they're stealing customers from the businesses who are playing by the rules. Firstly i wouldn't ever steal from my RL neighbours... ..but that's neither here nor there. You got some misplaced notion that if LL enforces its Adults rules properly by cleaning up the entire grid....that everything will be rosy in the Zindra garden. It won't and it can't....because the reason these infringers exist...is due to having long worked out that they'd be operating in market to a reduce audience which most likely translates to reduced sales. Instead of 100% of the userbase being able to access their lands to shop or RP or whatever.....by flicking the "Adult" switch it would cut down their potential market to say 20, 30 or 40% overnight. With the pressure of making Land tier payments & other expenses....this choice is really a no-brainer! If this were not the case...these infringers wouldn't be skirting around the Adult rules to begin with...now would they? Adult providers in essence will always be handicapped because i doubt age-verification or PIOF will ever become mandatory in SL. Why all the hoopla in making a distinction between Mature & Adult in the first instance if LL were ever going to go down that route? Having said all that, Zindra has the best chance of being reasonably successful....its a Mainland continent that directly or indirectly gets a lot of publicity......for many people Adult means Zindra. If one maps Zindra at any moment....you can see about 1000 or so green dots milling around the 300 + sims.......the population density there is far higher than most places on the grid. The 1000+ Adult rated Estate sims have it a lot harder with restricted advertising & promotion.....and in my opinion in far more vulnerable position long term..
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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10-21-2009 09:25
From: Pussycat Catnap SL might be just a social version of Pac Man to you, but for man it is a RL income generator.
People who engage in unfair competition, harm those who do not. They hurt their RL ability to earn a living.
These aren't just analogies, it is RL. Who says it doesn't provide me with a RL income?? Assumptions ...assumptions  One can be rational about these things.....or irrational. Problem in SL, many a time one blames their business failures or reduced sales on external factors (traffic bots or search or adult rating etc etc) rather than improve their own visibility and branding. In the real world, not all business play by ethical rules......why do you expect it in SL?
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Drake1 Nightfire
What-evah!
Join date: 2 Jul 2008
Posts: 60
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really?
10-21-2009 09:35
From: Milla Janick No it doesn't. Age verification is not required to access adult regions. yes it is.. you must be age verified to access adult sims.. thats what this whole thing was about, LL forcing people to send them personal info to prove they are over 18. its funny that you have to get age verified to access sex stuff but not booze or drugs... i was in a "mature" freebie shop, just for fun, and the had a "big box o booze and drugs" for 1 L.. hell it had a needle that hung out of your arm. and before you all ask, i dont remember where it was. btw, i would love a link to where we can find a list of acceptable and non acceptable adult items on mature land.. i followed the old farums and blondins posts and still could not get a clear cut answer. .. that bieng the case, what "adult" things did the OP see that may or may not have been ok to be on the land? |
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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10-21-2009 09:42
From: Drake1 Nightfire yes it is.. you must be age verified to access adult sims. No, you don't. You can access them by putting payment information on file. Age verification is not required to access Adult rated regions. |
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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10-21-2009 09:43
From: Drake1 Nightfire yes it is.. you must be age verified to access adult sims.. thats what this whole thing was about, LL forcing people to send them personal info to prove they are over 18. ...QUOTE]
No, it is NOT. Please be precise in your wording here, or you risk spreading disinformation.
You must be ACCOUNT VERIFIED, not age verified. There are two ways to do this.
1. Provide LL with a payment method, either a verified PayPal account or a credit card with a registered billing address associated with the account.
OR
2. Use the third party Aristotle age verifcation system and provide them with a drivers license number or other acceptable means of identification.
As an aside, note that LL uses the term "account verified" as a tacit admission of the fact that it is still possible to spoof the system with false or borrowed information.
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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10-21-2009 09:45
From: Brenda Connolly I have admit I agree with this in general. A lot of these RL analogies just don't work for me either. SL is not RL, at least for me. Unless I were to see something blatantly illegal or criminal with RL implications: large scale theft, swindling, child porn or the like, I'm not going to bother about it. It's not my job. I've never filed an AR, and really don't see any reason to do so except in cases mentioned above. If that makes me a bad citizen/resident/customer/player, oh well....*shrugs.
That being said, if you feel you are being directly affected by someone's actions and feel it is ARable, by all means do so. But otherwise, I can't equate minding my own business in SL to watch my RL neighbor's home being broken into and doing nothing. That's just too much of a stretch for me. I think i've only sent 1 or 2 AR's in 3 years....and they were both early on. I tend to deal with SL problems myself. I could have AR'd people on multiple occasions for griefing, for inappropriate nudity, for abuse, for harassing other residents, for using Cyrolife etc etc . Instead i always choose to IM the offender and speak to them and try to educate them as to why they're doing wrong and it's implications. You'll be surprise how many times it actually pans out! Once you get over the initial aggressive responses....the offenders then start behaving like adults by becoming more rational in their responses ....at the end they hopefully see the light!  That's part of the wider problem in SL.....education. It would certainly help in areas like content theft for example.
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Treasure Ballinger
Virtual Ability
Join date: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,745
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10-21-2009 09:46
From: Rene Erlanger I think i've only sent 1 or 2 AR's in 3 years....and they were both early on. I tend to deal with SL problems myself. I could have AR'd people on multiple occasions for griefing, for inappropriate nudity, for abuse, for harassing other residents, for using Cyrolife etc etc . Instead i always choose to IM the offender and speak to them and try to educate them as to why they're doing wrong and it's implications. You'll be surprise how many times it actually pans out! Once you get over the initial aggressive responses....the offenders then start behaving like adults by becoming more rational in their responses ....at the end they hopefully see the light! That's part of the wider problem in SL.....education. it would certainly help in areas like content theft for example. What is Cyrolife? |
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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10-21-2009 09:52
From: Treasure Ballinger What is Cyrolife? It's a 3rd party Client viewer developed through open source means.It has an embedded functionality of being able to copy prims and textures with just a few clicks on a drop down menu. It can actually copy a whole avatar....shape,skin,hair,eyes & clothes in one swoop. it will end up in your Inventory with you being the creator. What makes it dangerous...is that any old idiot can use it! Its not all doom and gloom however, the 3rd party Emerald viewer can detect Cyrolife users as can an in-world device -CyroBan. Apparently (according to Ann OToole) many are being suspended or banned being caught using this viewer.
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Drake1 Nightfire
What-evah!
Join date: 2 Jul 2008
Posts: 60
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not according to LL.
10-21-2009 09:56
according to the official post in the knowlegde base... "Who will need to verify their age?
Anyone wishing to enter land for which Residents and businesses have limited access to only those Residents who are verified adults. It's just like going into a bar: you need to prove your age.
What documents do I need to prove my identity?
Exact documents may vary depending on your country of residence, but may include:
Passport
Driver's license
National ID number
Social security number"
that sounds like "age verification" to me.
if account verification works as well, perhaps that should be ARed? "wink wink"
The whole point of Adult and Mature sims is stupid anyway.. adult and mature are 2 words with very similar meanings. from what i have seen they should have used "Mature Adult" and "Childish Sex Driven Adult" since all of thepublic sex related things were moved (supposedly) to ursula now zindra. im not sure what they were trying to do since Second Life is for 18+ people anyway. why the distinction between sex and non sex sims?
just my humble opinion.
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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10-21-2009 10:09
From: Drake1 Nightfire according to the official post in the knowlegde base... "Who will need to verify their age?
Anyone wishing to enter land for which Residents and businesses have limited access to only those Residents who are verified adults. It's just like going into a bar: you need to prove your age. That's not talking about Adult regions, it's talking about parcels where the owner has restricted access to age verified individuals. They are not the same thing. |
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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10-21-2009 10:21
From: Drake1 Nightfire according to the official post in the knowlegde base... "Who will need to verify their age?
Anyone wishing to enter land for which Residents and businesses have limited access to only those Residents who are verified adults. It's just like going into a bar: you need to prove your age.
What documents do I need to prove my identity?
Exact documents may vary depending on your country of residence, but may include:
Passport
Driver's license
National ID number
Social security number"
that sounds like "age verification" to me.
if account verification works as well, perhaps that should be ARed? "wink wink"
The whole point of Adult and Mature sims is stupid anyway.. adult and mature are 2 words with very similar meanings. from what i have seen they should have used "Mature Adult" and "Childish Sex Driven Adult" since all of thepublic sex related things were moved (supposedly) to ursula now zindra. im not sure what they were trying to do since Second Life is for 18+ people anyway. why the distinction between sex and non sex sims?
just my humble opinion. Actually residents would have probably had more success if they had made mature sims the ones you had to verify for..mainly because you cannot have any of the mature things in a pg sim at all.. instead they took the majority of the community split them in half and handed them a set of rules that are pretty easy to manipulate..it would have been cut and dry and a hell of a lot less confusing with a pg mature separation.. you don't sell many sims doing that though.. And as far as verification goes..I don't really think they were too concerned about who can get into zindra and any other adult rated sims..they have 3 ways to Sunday that you can be verified.. |
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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10-21-2009 10:33
From: Drake1 Nightfire according to the official post in the knowlegde base... "Who will need to verify their age?
Anyone wishing to enter land for which Residents and businesses have limited access to only those Residents who are verified adults. It's just like going into a bar: you need to prove your age..... This is referring to Method 2 of account verification, which I described in my previous post. As Milla says, it is possible to set your parcel to "access by age verified accounts only". This is NOT the same thing as having an Adult maturity rating for your region, and it is not sufficient to allow the land owner to have public, advertised adult content there. A lot of landowners haven't realized this yet. If you want to access a parcel that the owner has restricted in this way then yes, you need to use the Aristotle age verification process. However, age-restricted parcels are a VERY small percentage of the grid. To access Adult Content, you must be ACCOUNT VERIFIED. You do that by being PIOF *or* age verified.
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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10-21-2009 10:41
From: Lindal Kidd This is referring to Method 2 of account verification, which I described in my previous post.
As Milla says, it is possible to set your parcel to "access by age verified accounts only". This is NOT the same thing as having an Adult maturity rating for your region, and it is not sufficient to allow the land owner to have public, advertised adult content there. A lot of landowners haven't realized this yet.
If you want to access a parcel that the owner has restricted in this way then yes, you need to use the Aristotle age verification process. However, age-restricted parcels are a VERY small percentage of the grid.
To access Adult Content, you must be ACCOUNT VERIFIED. You do that by being PIOF *or* age verified. ya there are a lot still confused about this that own sims..Thinking they are fine if they turn on age verification.. i've talked to at least 7 sim owners if not more that were going to turn it on thinking they didn't have to change their rating to adult.. LL really needs to change the name of that option or get rid of it..it's only adding to the confusion.. |
