Private sims can make their own rules??

No, it was an IBM machine with a sense of humor.

Damn! Of course. Just for that, I'm going to go punch Colonel Moodus in the nose.

Big Fail!

Things like sex beds and sex animations can be sold on Mature Land providing they don't use Adult related keywords or images to promote them.....this has been written many times and backed up with Blondin Linden quotes

Well until Linden Labs releases the numbers of what the percentage of SL users are now either Age verified or PIOF....then of course my guesstimates are a stab in the dark.!
Why i quoted around 30%...was really based on a couple sample polls i read, plus a couple of forum posts made by Zindra business owners that quoted before and after traffic and sales. So i'm guessing 30%.....but that might be too generous.

I didn't say AR'ing is right or wrong.....i just stated that with all these LL policy changes we have become a AR community....some ARs might be valid, some might be vindictive and some might be a means of crippling business activities of a competitor. Bringing RL analogies using house break-ins as an argument is pretty weak!

Like i initially stated, you can clean up the grid of Adult content in every household......and i'll still believe that Zindra (and adult estate sims) will be a FAIL regardless. I just don't see the majority of the platform ever age-verifying or going PIOF unless it becomes mandatory.

Linden Labs made these policy changes....it's up the Game keepers to enforce them. I'm certainly not going to help them by AR'ing others. (That's a personal choice)
For the best part of 18 mths my businesses suffered at the hands of competitors who loaded their Lands with traffic bots which meant i was off the radar in Places Search.....it was not illegal at the time, but even now I'm not going to waste my time AR'ing those remaining infringers. It's up to LL to enforce their own rule changes.

I have PG & Mature related businesses on Mainland (Mature)...and they all do rather well despite a stagnant economy or the creation of Zindra. I haven't seen any real drop off in sales nor traffic from my visitor counters......ironically,where i am experiencing a business downturn are from shop sales located on PG & Mature Estate SIMs.

Its horse for courses, everyone has different experiences.

If we ask the lindens to do it, it means they have to hire a few hundred staffers to do it, and that will just -raise- tier costs...


If your land is closed land - not advertised in ANY way, then anything you put and do there is your business and can be rated mature. Though there's no logical reason to do so...

If your island is a private island, as in what 'private island' means in SL - a privately owned estate... and it has content that is advertised in ANY way, then if there is adult content that can be found by people in some manner other than accidentally stumbling upon it, then that island must be rated adult.


As for people who can accept TP's to Zindra but think they aren't verified. If you can get to Zindra, you are verified. At some point, you did something to change your status.

Its a perfect analogy.

Someone violates the rules, you call the policing authority. In SL, that is the Lindens, and the method of doing it is an AR. In SL, -they- are 'the state' with the authority and legitimacy to make and enforce the rules. We are the public, the governed, that rely on them to use the powers of the state to keep the social contract functioning. But the state is blind, and needs us to be its eyes.

The grid is just too big for them to be able to reasonably hire enough people to patrol it.

As for vindictive ARs, if you get harassed with false ARs, that will be something you can ask to have to dealt with, and people filing false ARs are something LL's can handle by subjecting those people to proper sanctions.
- there's even a category of AR for harassment.

Agreed..that's what i believe to be the case!

That's correct. If they used "orgy" in keywords...they'll probably end up receiving humongous traffic on Adult rated land....it's a trade off! If you want to try and keep it on Mature....you're not likely to get the traffic because you won't be able to use those enticing keywords as a form of advertising and it becomes a real challenge to use alternative descriptive keywords that you think a potential visitor might search on. Not as simple as it sounds!
That being said.....that establishment over time could grow it's traffic organically through word of mouth by members and via Group.

You do? I don't. Sometimes that's appropriate, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes doing nothing at all is appropriate.

I didn't read that way......i think they generally meant that they don't want
"AR busy bodies" on their Sims sniffing around even if their respective Sims are Kosha in terms of content.

You have to understand for a lot of people including myself, ...whilst there might be those out there breaking the new LL rules....it is the lesser of two evils when it comes to snitching (grassing) on someone. No one likes a Snitch! This is quite true in RL communities too. Whilst i'm in agreement with you in principle at those that flout the LL rules.....its down to LL to clean it all up.

I was strongly against age verification and the creation of an Adult rating to begin with.....so I'm even less likely to offer a helping hand. To be honest i would feel like hypocrite when considering my original stance on this subject matter.

I'm not sure that is 100% correct Qie.....around the beginning of Sept, the Lab were sending out emails of any keyword infringement in Land descriptions and Classifieds. I received 5 emails for 5 infringements....mainly because of the word BDSM and Mistress.....which related to some vendors selling like latex or rubber wear. I was given to 15th Sept to change the land descriptions & Adverts....or risk getting shipped to Zindra.
It wasn't really adult content in the true sense, the display boards were quite civil (no nudity)....but more attributing latex or rubber pants and tops to those type of people that RP a Mistress & BDSM lifestyle. I tested the keywords....and indeed they fell into the Adult category. If i typed BDSM and had Mature ticked in Search.....it came up as LL message explaining that this was a Adult keyword blah blah blah

Because it would deny access to anyone not willing to submit private information to a data mining company simply to accommodate someone's subjective opinion about whether something violates the adult content policy?

Based on all the things that Lindens have said you can sell on mature land I don't see how anyone can definitively say that anything short of pornographic pics and streaming pornographic videos in a store violates the adult content policy simply by observing it. If someone is going to take it upon themselves to decide they are the arbiter of such things and start ARing what they deem to be content that violates the adult content policy on mature land I'd rather estate ban them and continue to allow the many many people who understandably wont or can't age verify to visit my land.

Then again, I received a couple emails for 0 infringements.

They don't exactly make it easy, do they?

No it doesn't. Age verification is not required to access adult regions.

What is adult content? You'd think Sex beds and sex animations would be......but these can be be sold on Mature lands according to Linden Labs.So you can't blame all those businesses electing not to tick Adult.....why should they handicap their businesses?

By AR'ing and becoming a "snitch" carries social stigmas......no thank you!
If you're in any doubts see the descriptive meanings presented in the Urban dictionary.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snitch

i'm not asking them to do it..just saying after all was said and done it was bullcrap that they didn't have a plan on how to handle their changes..no instead they slap everyone in the face by saying ..ok now that we have made you all change .go out and screw each other over..screw that..
they don't need hundreds of staff either..
just a few to sit there and look at the search and see who is breaking the rules..it's just that simple..let the g'team or whoever they are now handle the rest..
AR's will come into play but don't make it the backbone of your whole idea..i would hope they are deeper than that..


Sorry you must have missed 99.9% of any posts i've ever made on this topic i guess..I am more than aware and fully understand the changes and exactly what adult content is and what mature content is and the difference between mainland and a privately owned sim..
if you would have read where i came into this thread..
you would have had to trip over about 5 of my posts getting to the one you quoted ..they pretty much say the same thing as you are saying..lol

It would seem that trying to sell them without being able to advertise them would be more of a handicap.

Aside from selling them, putting them out for public use in a sex club is clearly Adult content. That was made pretty clear early on.

Why should they handicap their business? Because it's part of the TOS they've agreed to.

I am. It's their service, their rules. If they are incapable of enforcing them, shame on them. I'm not going to do their work for them.

exactly..we shouldn't have to do their job or even be a part of their plan..
we shouldn't be put in a position to have to ask them..they came up with this whole thing..

thats like asking people that were screwed over in the OS thing to go out and start finding people using OS sims as homesteads..i'm not gonna do that crap after i lost a 6 sim project because of their bait and switch..
now this..pfft..i don't even wanna talk to them lol

I wasn't talking about a club which has a sex bed....i was implying a furniture store that has a separate department selling sex-beds......why penalize the rest of the business, which might be the majority of the store.

You can advertise sex beds, just not using the obvious adult rated keywords or photo images.
If one is smart enough, you'll find appropriate descriptive keywords which are not adult rated.......it might not get you the same number of visitors to that Dept, but you should make up the difference to those that arrived at the other parts of the Furniture store.

In fact i don't think that "Sex Bed" and "Sex animations" are even adult keywords at this present moment!!

I believe we are talking across purposes. You're talking about Mature content advertised with Mature keywords. I'm talking about Adult content remaining in Mature regions in violation of the TOS/CS.

i would just switch to adult if i was on a private island and playing it that close to the line..it's pretty easy to just switch and test out how you do..the people on mainland i can see having to adjust or wanting to adjust the keywords and tone down more than someone on a private island..

it's a much bigger risk factor..

Well i would not say sex related equipment like beds,animations & poses are Mature....they are Adult by it's nature, but you can sell them on Mature providing you don't advertise them in Adult way e.g have 2 bots or employees demonstrating the Bed menu.....likewise the photo displays for sex animations one needs to be careful with. I presume that none of this can be set for public use or demo'ing. It is most definitely all Adult content though....and the type of stuff that ends up getting used in public sex clubs or orgy rooms.


Not to mention that advertising would have to be toned down to Mature levels.

well actually those beds are not adult buy nature as far as the rating system goes..
The reason you can sell them on mature land is because we can also own and use them on mature land and they can also be rated as mature content..
there is nothing that we could create that would be considered adult only rated and not be able to also be rated as mature content..

Whatever is allowed as far as content and activities go is allowed in a mature private home that keeps them as private uses..

I know you know that it is all about the advertising and making it known to the public..
i'm just trying to say that there is no such thing as an item that cannot also be rated as mature and be used as mature..no matter what..adult content is not allowed in a mature rated sim..it has to adjust it's rating and become mature content to be sold or used in those sims..
what the owner of that item does after the purchase will determine if it is to remain mature or adult content..

bleh i hope i am not sounding insulting here..i'm just trying to be informative on things i see that may still be misunderstood is all..

I may be misunderstanding what you were saying as well..if so i apologize..

Yeah... but you know what...

I may have grown up in "the hood" - the real one, not the one some people play in, but the one where you live dirt poor, in the middle of overwhelming violence, drugs, and hopelessness...

But I don't live there anymore... and I could care less what the outside world thinks they think is cool.

Saying 'snitch' is uncool is just so high school...

Its not about that, its about building a better sustainable community. Which -does- involve making sure the social contract is followed and the norms and rules are adhered to.

As for this whole 'what is adult content' - I don't think there's any disagreement over that in the thread, just a lot of cross-talk...

Anarchy sounds cool in the coffee shop politics... but... it doesn't work. And it isn't SL. There are rules here. Like it or not, people have real life incomes at stake, and for that to work the system of competition needs to be as fair as possible.

That means reporting real violations to the proper authority, and putting the heat on that authority to use proper judgment over its power - to neither abuse by lack of enforcement nor over enforcement. Its a two sided effort. You don't just AR real violations, you also get on the Lindens to be clear about their rules, and to properly enforce them. One side cannot be effective without the other - and if the effort is abandoned, SL will collapse.

This isn't some MMO where the 'hackers' and 'gold farmers' are just a nuisance to the advancement of your video game character... its a legitimate part of a real world economy. Harm to that is harm to people who have legitimate real world economic interests at stake.

(gold farmers in MMOs are part of the real world economy, but not legitimately so - harm to their interests is a good thing).