Someone owes me money.

Hello,

I don't know where i should put this, so first of all, my appologies if it's not in the right place.

Well here's my story:

As you can see, someone took advantage of my generosity. I met her in "Red Light District" a weird place as you might know. We started talking about life and common interests. After a while she proposed me to buy her a skin (wich was about 4k in Linden$), in exchange she would restyle my character the week following. I thougt this was a good idea, i do like female company and i could use a guidance trough all the shops. So she took me to the shop and showed me the skin. I gave her the money. Suddenly she teleported somewhere else and quit talking to me. When I tried to add her to my friendlist she declined. At first i thought it was due to lag, because I didn't believe such people existed and would pull a Houdini on me. A little later, by coincidence, I saw her again and chased her around with my "Name of offender owes me" tag that i made. Shortly after she began talking to me again. When i asked her why she did it, she answered me with: "Because I like money."

Ofcourse I told her it was sad that she revealed her true personality for only 10$. She kept on laughing at me when I told her i was going to make this public. She said she had 2 characters and that she could do what she wanted etc. I tried to explain her it was a bad thing and that she could be seen as a criminal in a way. After some not so nice words, she muted me again.

I know it was foolish of me giving money to someone I don't know. Honnestly I didn't mind giving that money, as long as she kept her promise.

The reason I am making this thread is because I don't know how else I could get my money back. As it is real money in a way, I feel robbed and betrayed by this person. What can I do? First and foremost I want to teach her a lesson and if I could get my money back by doing this I won't mind.

As you could read in my little story I've started a group for everybody who has loaned out money and never saw it back. IM ingame if you want an invite. You can choose your own little tag.

Thank you for reading.
Have a nice day.

Naming names is seriously against the forum rules... you want to edit your post to remove the name of the culprit (hopefully you can edit the thread title!). Someone will eventually explain why the forum has this policy, but for now, really, just make the changes. It's really important.

you were robbed.

you cant do anything about it.

as far as LL is concerned it was a "gift"

Trust people less.

Good luck.

ok thanks for the feedback..

so you can't do anything about this?

The thing is, LL is far more concerned with apparent harassing behavior than they are with money disputes between residents. This goes beyond, but includes, naming names in the forum.

You may be in the right, in the underlying incident, but doing the things you've described can be interpreted as griefing, with the consequences that accompany that. Try to accomplish your goals in a smarter way, or just let it go. Good luck!

Well i'm not going to rest my case this easy. I'll see what LL themselves have to say on this mather. I'm very shocked that people just say that I should leave it this way. The game is based on trust. A lot of artists and performers who play this game every day are payed this way. There has to be a system where people like me could get at least a Moderator or something who can try and settle this in a human way.

It is real money.

If that's the case i'm no longer willing to play this game. I can't see from behind my computer trough an avatar who is to trust and who not, i'm sorry. You guys have like a 6th sence or something else i can't comprehend.

I'm sorry you had this experience, but most of the people in SL aren't like that. The only advice I can give you is don't trust people you haven't taken the time to get to know and, if you give someone money or objects, consider it a gift and don't expect reciprocation.

It might help to understand that some folks "play" SecondLife with a different set of goals. We really don't know what this person's thing is, but my guess is that she doesn't really do it "because she likes money" as much as because she likes to play at being a grifter: she gets some kind of thrill from being able to use her avatar as a surrogate con artist. And there are really no "rules of the game" that say it's even wrong for her to do that. It's not gonna get her any awards as Humanitarian of the Year, but at least in her SecondLife, she's not into that. (For all we know, she could be a great philanthropist in RL, yet feels this compulsion to cheat people out of L$s in SL.) This kind of behavior doesn't make SecondLife a better place to spend one's time, but... well, if it's any consolation, others have lost a lot more learning this lesson.

So, yeah, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. (You can file an Abuse Report with LL if you want, but really, they just aren't going to look at it.)

Oh, and thanks for editing your post. I'll try to explain the "no names" rule, but one of the stickies at the top of the thread list explains it much better than I can. In brief, it's just not possible to be sure of getting both sides of a story on a forum thread--what's said may be true, or it may be just malicious character assassination. Now, in this case, I strongly suspect that the "other side" really wouldn't be bothered--I'm guessing she's not highly motivated to protect her reputation--but you can see that in general, the forums would be unmanageable if any random poster could just make up sh*t about whoever they're out to hurt. You've been a victim of the "dark side" yourself, so maybe you can imagine how somebody might use the forums to victimize others.

Yeah don't try anything that will get you reported for abuse. Don't give the thief satisfaction of getting you banned as well. I wonder if joining any groups she's in and making a little announcement that she's a thief would be bad.

The only thing the forum can do for you is maybe help you with your STYLE. For instance, 4000L$ is way to much to be spending on skin.

Nothing special here - I take the simple basis that everyone I come across in SL and on the forums is just an anonymous fake name that I don't know, and as such trust nobody.

Trust is something you build up over a while. Talk to the person, see how they behave, what they have invested in this game.

Just as an example, I would trust Desmond Shang - who has a good reputation here, is a well known name, and has thousands of dollars tied up in SL via Caledon - but I would not trust Ruth Newbie who was 0 days old, no payment info on file.

It's one of the unfortunate things of the internet that there are people who prey on people's generosity and trust for their own twisted benefits. Sorry you got caught, but you could also think of it as a good lesson for $10, and you didn't get hit for $100 or worse.

Broccoli

I am sorry but second life is just like REAL LIFE, you don't start to trust people after a few minutes of talk. And as in real life, if you paid CASH for someone to perform a job and didn't follow up.. there are very little recourse. You can report to the police.. but I doubt that they could do much for you either. Same for LL. The L$ is just the cost to learn the wisdom that SL is just like RL and there are good and bad people around.

Sorry to hear that you were ripped off. I also believe that you need to let it go and score this experience down as a learning point. Why?

First, LL has a policy of not getting involved in disputes between residents. They provide the infrastructure, but they are not the government. If you have a valid complain against another resident covered by the TOS (e.g. griefing), file an AR. Unfortunately, your case (promise broken by another resident) is not one of there.

Second, in SL there is no such thing as contract enforcement between residents. All is based on trust. So I recommend that you perform a background check before you trust someone else with substantial money.

Third, I recommend that you refrain from any direct action against the resident who ripped you off. If violating the TOS she may issue abuse reports against you, which may get you suspended or banned.

I know that all this will sound frustrating to you now, but why make yourself miserable over something which you cannot change anymore? Try to learn from the experience.

I'm sure that there are lots of people out there who would be glad to help you with styling yourself .

Thank you for your reply's.

It was very helpfull.. I'm still a bit dissapointed.
But let's not make the mistake on fixating our thoughts on the amount of money. Even if it's small, it's just the same for me.

Cheers.

It sounds a little more negative the way you put it but that's exactly the way I view it. For all I know that sexy looking 20 year old stud could be a 89 year old woman. I always keep in mind that I am friends with the avatar and not the person. That way I have no expectations and therefore no sorrows. I also only trust an avatar only so far at first. I mean give a email address you never use and even LL has no way of knowing who you are.

No one is going to do much of an investigation for a $15 loss. Just consider it a lesson learned. She sucks as a human being. Take pleasure in knowing you'll be happier overall.

I wonder whether a "Pick" in the profile telling the little story with a warning might not be in order. Something unter the heading of "Ripped off by Xxxx Yyyy".

I don't believe that this would be against the TOS. What do you think?

In SL, take the same precautions you would in RL. Would you talk to someone in a red light district for a short while and then give them money based on trust?

Alarm bells would be ringing for me the moment someone I had just met wanted me to hand money over, whatever the story. I bet this person makes a living in SL this way.

I know it's annoying being scammed, but just try and put it down to experiance and move on. There are plenty in SL you can trust, but you just need to get to know them a lot better

There really isn't anything they will do Vic. Given the amount of disputes like this that occur, I don't think they would have the resources.

Sorry you found out the hard way, but learn from your mistakes and don't ever do anything like this again. When considering buying from people in future, consider their reputations first. If they run a store, this can be very easy to figure out.

As for gifting stuff to people in Red Light Districts ..

.. well, if I did that IRL I would consider that an extraordinary risk.

Ever hear of those stories in Soho where pretty ladies take guy from street into club, getting her to buy him drinks .. and it later turns out the drinks cost £100 each and they won't let him leave the club until he gets his credit card out?

You just got similarly hit in SL.

If you wouldn't trust a strange in RL, don't trust them in SL.

Anybody who sees you as a meal ticket will be extremely nice and accomodating til they get what they want.

Sorry again this happened to you. =)

hey, i like my 2 4k skins from rac

don`t give anyone money unless u intend to donate it

This is absolutely true. The Ginko fiasco has shown us that someone can run off with over half a million dollars real money, and LL will do nothing.


I'm pretty sure this WOULD violate the TOS. If I remember correctly, the TOS rule on naming names applies to anything on LL's servers. However, they have stated that they will not apply the rule to third-party web sites.

It really makes sense actually. It would be impossible for LL to validate Vic's story. (Don't worry Vic, I believe you). They can look and see that Vic transferred L$4000 to her but all she has to say is that he gave it as a gift. He said/she said. She could claim he just had some type of vendetta against her and that's why he's trying to defame her on his profile, blah, blah, blah...it just gets uglier from there. Notecards are no help since they can be so easily manipulated.

LL has chosen not to get involved in residents disputes and I'm fine with that. The last thing I'd want is for them to start having to act as judge and jury also.

It wouldn't be impossible. They have server logs of everything. Conversations in particular sims, IMs, etc. All can be verified if required. I believe the amount of time they hold onto these logs was a point of concern in the recent Bragg trial.

However, checking server logs for this kind of thing takes a lot of time, and the resources would be better spent elsewhere.

Exactly. The cost involved to recover what amounts to a few dollars in most cases would never be justified by the cost to do it. We'd all be required to pay a very large monthly fee if that ever happened.

The person who stole your money was stupid.
If you are the sort of person who readily gives out that sort of money to strangers she would be much better off having you as a friend.
(in RL anyone who cheats a millionaire out of a small amount of money when they could have had friendship instead is not very intelligent)

There are some other SL websites where you can name names.

And of course legal action Is possible but pointlessly expensive for what you lost

Look my friend as others have stated learn by this trust No One and im not alone when i say this , we all All of us have been duped at some point in SL but first Dupe is a shock if it happens over and over than your too gulliable and need some guidance badly or too trusting in human nature..Human nature state Humans are greedy and look around Real world for examples of this..
Alot of Scammers and fraudsters in Rl trying to get rich quick and unfortunately in SL too in short my friend you been sharked which is a term to use against somebody who pretends to be your bestest friend then robs you for a quick buck ok 4000k not much but how many others does that person con to make it worth her while?
I wont help nobody to an easy buck if they need money that bad Why come to SL?
Also tell em this go find a money Tree or the owner of ginko he got a few bucks..(Snickers i know bad taste but its true) or better still this is how you can tell a shark say well you can work for the L$ il pay you when you have earned it..and watch em run!!

just some useful advice..Also i think it would help alot on the starting island that they put in training that crooks and criminals operate in SL and things to do against being a victim..what u think?