Stolen business name?

Fred's the big blond guy with the muscles.

Edit:

Looks like you've met Fred before

Oh... that guy...

Of course, I've known Fred since the '70s.

I thought Fred was the fat, black-haired guy who wears skins and owns dinosaurs. <.<

Yabba-dabba-doo! (ACK! )

Yes, Fred was quite charming (as Argent will agree).....and we had a very passionate exchange on what was right and what was wrong, and I how I was going to make his life a living hell (in a nice way of course).....

....so he took his bot family of 20 and moved to another region, and is quite happy now. We are still friends. Nice little example that you can work these things out sensibly. Even with a bot.

Just a couple of observations:

Someone suggested using 'Inc' at the end of a business name in SL. There are laws governing who can and can't use terms like Inc, Ltd and various others. It is actually an offense to use them unless you are legally entitled to do so. Maybe no one would care in SL, but if someone is earning enough to cash out, this could cause them issues one day.

Although you can't register your business name in SL there are a few things you can do to ensure you haven't accidentally got one someone else is already using - and to help establish your chosen name as THE definitive one, in case of future debates.

1 - obviously search for it in world - and also search for it on the map page, if you ever want an island you may want that name of course, plus you may find a similar name that you hadn't discovered through regular search. We all now know that it is a good idea to search for as many permutations of your chosen name as possible - spaces/no spaces, alternative spellings

2 - get the .com website for your name - this is really cheap to do nowadays, and even if you never get around to putting anything on it, you are safe-guarding it for yourself for the future - it did occur to me that the two business names being discussed in this thread would both probably want www.primsavers.com - they may or may not be different names as spelt here, but they sound the same and would look the same like that, of course.

3 - Google the name. Googling 'Prim savers' (with or without a space) shows numerous entries for Phil's products - plus the rezzing tool that was mentioned earlier in the thread.
Doing a google search will also help ensure you are not choosing a real life brand name - big no no! Oh, and also you will help make sure your 'beautiful new name' doesn't mean something really rude in another language (are you STILL blushing about that one, Mike?)

4 - If you are cashing out of SL and need to tell the taxman (I am assuming that everyone is as honest/daft as I am, hehe) - then you can register the name you trade under at the same time. This isn't the same as copyrighting/trademarking anything, of course, but it certainly would add credence to your use of the name if ever a real life company were to start using that name (for example) and then try to drop a lawsuit on you. You would have strong evidence that you were using it first etc.

5 - Avoid obvious names - this should, of course be obvious, hehe, but I have heard a good few people getting upset because someone else has 'stolen their business name' - when the name itself it so generic that it is really not surprising. If, say, you make suits, and you are called Fred Bloggs, then calling your business Fred Bloggs Suits is a pretty safe bet - there won't be another Fred Bloggs in SL, of course. It would still be a good idea to check on google that this isn't, by some horrible coincidence, the name of a thriving real life company who are just waiting to leap on you. It would also be good to check that there isn't a Freda Bloggs Suits or a Henry Bloggs Suits, even - it is in your interest to be as unique as possible.

But calling your new suit business something that is a catchphrase or pun is far more risky. Suit's You Sir! may be very amusing, but as it is a catchphrase from a tv show, there is a very high chance that someone else also thought it an amusing choice for their store. Similarly using a name like Men's Suits is inevitably going to have issues- there is BOUND to be someone trading as X's Men's Suits, or Quality Men's Suits or whatever. Besides, no one is going to remember that name, it is just too generic - and will bring up far too many hits in search as well - hits that are not YOU.

If one discovers they've inadvertantly picked a business name practically identical to that of an established business, I'm not exactly sure why they wouldn't want to change it.

The impression it gives to potential customers is not a positive one.

TM is the "trademark" symbol not part of his name. Nobody's trying to scare you, just share some feelings about what you're doing. How can anyone scare you, you could be right, legally/technically. I don't know if you are or not. It's just not very nice is all, and you are not only taking business from him but from yourself as well, it's too confusing to people just trying to shop, who don't care about any of this, they just want to buy a low prim sofa. if I was a new person trying to figure it out, I wouldn't go to either one of you, too confusing.

It's just kind of ugly, the way this is playing out. Phil was there first. Has been there a long, long time as Prim Savers. When I bought my first land in 2007, I furnished my first house from there (I didn't know him then) and have been back often since. Now, you come along, and you will capitalize on his success, without even trying, the years and time he's put into his business, some of that will go to you, (not his old, established customers, but new people surely, who don't know about this problem )and you are new on the block. How unfair is that? (I know, life isn't fair) It's just ugly, even if technically/legally you may be right. You are still new, compared to Phil. The time and work you've put in isn't close to the years Phil has. I am a SL consumer, a shopper, not a creator. I spend a *lot* of Lindens, buying what other people make. Maybe you should consider a customer's point of view.

Wow. This is disgusting.

After being confronted with this information Floyd still refuses acknowledges the obvious or do the right thing.

Ugh.

I just may make a parcel named "PrimSavers" and redirect people to "Prim Savers" under the description information and parcel pic.

Good idea!!!

That's not true - I've been checking.

(I didn't read the rest of your post.)

It just goes to show that human beings are capable of rationalizing ANY conduct, no matter how unethical.

(In my opinion that individual is behaving very, very badly indeed.)

you mean him?

You are very much mistaken. The majority of opinion on other things here has been in agreement with me. Don;t be misled by a small number of diehards with attitude and loud fingers - of whom you are one, of course.

It doesn't take many minutes to check out a name thoroughly. A search in the ALL search for "prim savers", "primsavers", "primsaver" and "prim saver" will produce all the variations of the name. To be honest, that's what should have happened in the first place.

To the tune of "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean":

The Lurkers support me in e-mail
They all think I'm great don't you know.
You posters just don't understand me
But soon you will reap what you sow.

Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.

The lurkers support me in e-mail
"So why don't they post?" you all cry
They're scared of your hostile intentions
They just can't be as brave as I.

Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.

One day I'll round up all my lurkers
We'll have a newsgroup of our own
Without all this flak from you morons
My lurkers will post round my throne.

Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.

1. Some work, but quite doable, you are not that long in business after all. Its a lot less wortk then creating the original ones was. Plus, it is the right thing to do.
2. In general, most people will check the creator anyway. Plus its only 2 months of sales if I remember right? Maybe years to come, so 2 months is pretty irrelevant in that case.
3. Either try to get assistance by LL, or manually invite all member to the new group. Loyal customers will follow, the rest is clutter anyway.
4. See 1.
5. No Sir, you are not. How laws would apply or not, I do not know, yet I dare to say you are in the wrong here. Not intentionally I suppose, and I can imagine you are not happy with it. Yet the only right thing to do, is rebrand.

Floyd. You may have noticed that some people in the forum are antagonistic towards me, and yet nobody has suggested that you are in the right. I think that everyone appreciates that it was an honest mistake and I'm sure you wish you'd checked. Nobody here can make you change your business name, but I hope you will at least consider it.

It just goes to show that nobody actually reads the existing threads discussing ethics and doing the right thing, the spirit of the TOS etc. There is support for the notion that "ethics" are irrelevant in matters such as this, and that in any case they are simply a matter of individual opinion with everyone's opinion being as valid as anyone elses.


If you accept, as Phil says he does, that Floyd was unaware of Prim Savers when he set out, then where does the unethical behaviour begin?

Now, if Floyd had been running Traffic bots right up to the wire, and was intent on gaming search right up to the limit of the letter of the rules, I would have no hesitation in joining in with the "unethical" song.

As matters stand, I don't see an indication that Floyd set out to use Primsavers as a way of piggybacking on Prim Savers.

Nice try, but no dice. There's nothing intrinsically illegal about what he has done. If you want to pursue the matter, get a lawyer.

You're the last person to be getting on about doing the "right thing" versus the "legal thing".

Okayyyyy.

Two votes for Floyd not having any intent do do wrong. Have we got that straight?

Two examples of people asking for Floyd to "do the right thing".


Phil and Marcel - preaching Ethics and the right thing. It's COSMIC!



I dare not exhort Floyd to "do the right thing". The last few times I talked about ethics and doing the right thing, I didn't get a great reception.

We need some good ol' community justice.

LOL

Floyd, I am afraid I really think you are being unwise sticking to your guns here, whether or not you're legally or morally entitled to.

Clearly you'd not heard of him before, but the fact of the matter that Phil and his Prim Savers brand are pretty well known in SL and people who don't know the story are all too likely to jump to the conclusion that you're deliberately copied his name to steal his customers and think badly of you and your store. Indeed, you (or your customers) will probably have to put up with over-enthusiastic folks seeing "PrimSavers" on an item of furniture, seeing it's not made by Phil Deakins, and concluding it's been copybotted.

You're going to spend so much time and effort explaining to people what's happened and that it's all an honest mistake, I suspect the time and effort involved re-branding, while a not inconsiderable nuisance, is going to pale into insignificance.