Stolen business name?

You don't do that here, you do that by putting a ™ symbol after it.

What's the key code for that TM symbol?

Option 2 on my Macintosh, or Unicode 2122 hex.

I don't see why there couldn't be a tool to register your business name, just like you choose/register your avatar name. It's a huge oversight. It shouldn't be that difficult to set up.

I don't know how to get unicode characters from the keyboard but I did find alt+0153 for it:-

™

You can't copyright a name. You can trademark it, but not copyright it.

Even if it's not a registered trademark, prior use does establish rights in your mark.

Unfortunately, a court battle is too expensive for almost all SL microbusinesses. You could try the AR, but I doubt LL will intervene.

Hey, search expert...wouldn't a search on "Prim Savers" NOT turn up "PrimSavers", and vice versa? Maybe the impact isn't as bad as you think.

He's actually targetting "Prim Savers" (with the space, without the quotes). He has 12 shelves with Prim Savers in their names - all set to show in search and not for sale, of course. The shelves get him to #12 for Prim Savers.

Phil,

I think it is a different name and there's not much you can do about it anyway. There are about 12 Bad Kitty stores, and i know for a fact mine was around first. serves no purpose to make a big thing about it. LL will do nothing anyway. sorry.

That would give you (IMO) additional ammunition to assert a trademark violation.

Pizza is a local business. SL is worldwide, and needs a worldwide name registry. It would be in LL own interests to have such a registry. Right now, if you develop a popular business or club, other people "domain squat" on it by copying it. That discourages people.

That's a good idea, Daniel. We have unique avatar names. We have unique group names. Why can't we establish unique business names?

Workaround: Use your avatar name in your business name. "Phil Deakins' Prim Savers". Not a cure-all, but nobody else is going to use your name in their business. I think.

Just because it's possible to find examples people getting away with RL trademark infringement or trademarks which have lapsed due to lax defense by their owners does not invalidate trademark law.

45 of those Rays in New York, or 11 of the Bad Kitty shops in SL can get away with it because the original trademark owner didn't feel it was worth defending, or just didn't bother to. That certainly does not mean Phil should roll over and get screwed, too.

Linden Lab may or may not act on an AR or support ticket, but I'll bet they'd take notice if they failed to and ended up being named as a defendant in a lawsuit.

Try starting up a sex bed company in SL, call it "StrokerzToyz" and see how far you get.

Hello Everybody,

I am that other guy you all talk about. I was just made aware of this thread, so I find it normal to put my $0.02 in here as well.

First thing first, as Phil says, I did not know about his store when I first chose this name. In fact, this name came in a discussion with Alexohol business owners and I decided to choose "PrimSavers" rather than "1 Prim Miracles" or something similar. In fact it was one of them, namely AlexandraM Guisse that came up with the name from analogy with LifeSavers. Further more, my logo reflects that feel as well. Since LifeSavers was with no space, that's how PrimSavers became as well. If LifeSavers would have been Life Savers, probably I would have created Prim Savers (which would be wrong). I did perform a quick search at the time about PrimSavers, nothing came up in any of the tabs, so I went ahead with it. I think it's hard to ask of someone to know all business names in SL.

A lot of effort was put by me into this name, there are hundreds of images using the logo and so on, that's why rebranding is not that easy as it would seem.

As for me benefiting of his business, I highly doubt that... as one earlier poster stated, searching for "Prim Savers" will not bring my business up, nor will searching for "PrimSavers" bring his up.

Now about semantics.

I do believe PrimSavers and Prim Savers are two different names. Are they similar, sure, but technically they are different. One could even create "Prim Savers Inc." and be different than "Prim Savers". Or "Prim Savers Co.". There are countless such examples in real world. However, that is not something I planned for, it would have been very easy to find a different name at the time. And that name could be completely new, or could be again, who knows, close to one a different company has. SL is a huge world, and there is no such thing as "Business Registry" or anything similar that one would access first and be advised on valid available names. That might be a good idea, imho.

I am completely open to discuss this, personally I don't see myself in the wrong.

Also, please feel free to look up both stores, I don't try to pretend I'm him, he creates items mostly from regular prims, I sculpt my own creations personally torturing each prim to give real PrimSavings to my customers. The stores are very different as products, even though by nature, we share the same niche.

Please feel free to contact me in world or here (this is first time ever I see the forum).

My best regards,

Floyd Mistwalker

Pass the popcorn please.

Me again, hi

Based on this thread, I picked up the phone and made a phone call to trademark authorities in my country.

To begin with, they state that such names are completely different from trademark point of view. But they came up with an even more interesting point...

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS INTERNATIONAL TRADEMARK.

That was news for me.

So... If one registers "Prim Savers" in UK, other person can very well register "Prim Savers" (exact same name) in Romania. They gave me an example. "Future Shop" is a very well known electronics retail store in North America. "Future Shop" is also a relatively well known electronics retail store in Romania. No trademark issues.

They said that "PrimSavers" and "Prim Savers" would be individual entities in same territory even, and this comes from Trademarking authorities (feel free to contact them as I did).

Looking forward to your replies

Oh, and even though I find it hilarious, if we are about declaring, I declare that "PrimSavers" is trademark of mine in SL.

Welcome to the forum, Floyd.

I appreciate and accept that you didn't know about my store when you started yours but you've known about it for a short time. I accept that you did search for PrimSavers before you started to use the name, but I would have thought that it was sensible to also search on Prim Savers.

A business name doesn't have to be an exact match to infringe another person's trademark business name. "PrimSavers" is definitely infringing my "Prim Savers" business name because it is extremely close to being identical *and* it is in the identical business - not just furniture, but low prim furniture.

Of course it wouldn't be easy to change, but I've been selling low prim furniture as Prim Savers for 2½ years, whereas you only started 2 months ago. It will take some time, but changing your business name is the right thing to do in these circumstances.

But you *do* come up in a search for "Prim Savers" because you've named 12 shelves with my business name. They are set to show in search but they aren't for sale, of course. You come up at #12.

Technically, Prim Savers and PrimSavers are different - the second one has a space removed. But the second one is so close to the first one, and both businesses are in the identical field of business, that the PrimSavers name does infringe the Prim Savers trademark.

I appreciate that. Are you open to accept the general opinion of the people in this forum?

I just found out about those shelves right now, to be honest, and promptly changed them, with my apology. That was an oversight of mine. I swear it was not intentional even though I can't prove it. That is, indeed, not acceptable, and I moved immediately towards removing it.

Please come in my store i will show you the shelves in question, and you can see the change in effect already.

On this one you are completely right, and from now on, it is not an issue anymore.

On this we continue to disagree, unfortunately, and I don't see an unanimous general opinion. Even if that would be, it doesn't mean it is right.

Personally (also based on trademark offices) I think I am in the right.

You only need to read about trademarks to know that what I said is correct. It doesn't sound like you are open to discussion. I don't think I could have been any fairer than suggesting that the people here decide. Or what did you mean when you said that you are open to discussion? What sort of discussion?

i would say that it is now time for you two to take this to private messaging or even email. before the poop hits the fan, i mean. none of us can choose for either of you, and no matter what the general consensus is, neither of you is going to change your store name. so.....

I don't see any likelihood of anything hitting the fan in this thread.

What if the prim nazis show up?

We'll set the ferrets on them.

I agree with you. This is hardly a forum issue, but if it was brought up here, I posted my $0.02.

I apologize If I talk too much

My best regards