how to make profit?

Not so much themes, as individual ideas. If you really like a shop, and copy every idea they come out with, they'll get pissed. They probably can't do much of anything unless you steal their actual work, but it's a pretty shitty thing to do.

There are already stores for just about every theme, so you're going to have other people out there doing what you do, but that's life. Do your thing.

If you're selling land, don't actively steal customers. Don't go places and say to the people living there 'Hey, I can give you a better deal'.

Just common courtesy, you know? Don't be a dick.

ok i understand . i wouldnt do none of that anyways but its nice knowing.. kinda like rl

so the only way to realy make money is to be the actual owner . another words. buy it from linden then rent it out correct? and if not what is the advantage of buying from LL other then the security

First of all, no.

You could, if you do it right, make money by renting from someone elses private sim, or selling mainland, or buying your own sim, and renting that out, or renting mainland, or any number of things.

You could also make money without doing the land thing at all. Not everything is about land.

As for advantages of 'owning' land instead of renting from a private party,

They are far less likely to take it back.
You don't have to worry about the sim owner selling the sim to someone else and losing your land.
You don't have to worry about the sim owner disappearing and losing the sim.
You get support from LL with a premium membership, and higher support if you own a full sim.
You don't have any rules to follow beyond the PG/Mature, and soon Adult ratings.
You don't have to worry that the sim owner is scamming you.
You can do whatever the heck you want with it. LL doesn't declare land as 'only residential' or 'only commercial' or anything like that.

The only ways to get rid of a Homestead sim are:

1: Abandon it to LL. You lose everything, gain nothing. But at least you stop bleeding money.

2: If you're stuck with 4 Homestead sims you have (had?) a chance to get LL to combine them into a single normal sim. I said Had because I don't know if LL is doing that for free any more. There may be a fee now to combine them, of something like $100 USD. It will cost you $295 USD per month after that merger to maintain your single new normal sim. And you lose EVERYTHING that was on the old sims at the time of conversion. It starts as a brand new blank sim, with no special terraforming. So make sure you pick up every prim on all 4 sims before you let them merge them. The one advantage here is that the resulting sim has normal costs per prim, so you can rent it out at competitive rates.

3: Find some sucker to buy it from you. I say "sucker" because first, they have to be in the same situation that you are, owning at least one normal sim, and then willing to take on the new Homestead sim, at its higher cost per prim, with all the problems that are reasons you want to dump it. How many people do you think will be willing to do that?

A normal full-prim sim is easier to sell. They still have a normal cost per prim, and haven't been made relatively worthless by Linden Lab.

This, this, this.

Yes, you can make money here, maybe even a lot of it. But it does not come easy at all. It's not a place for a free lunch. Those who are making real money here have likely had to work very hard to get there.

If you are just starting out, do take advantage of every possible free thing you can. Use sandboxes for building. Hit the classes and tutorials. Explore the world. See about an XStreetSL account and get a place to host a box. Maybe rent a small storefront in a mall or other location once you have some L$ behind you, etc.

Don't start with a bunch of land and nothing to put on it. Carts and horses.

i c .. so now im getting somewhere your saying that the homestead ended up being a big mistake for region owners to invest in.. because of the prim cost. they would be better off just owning there original region is this correct? sounds like even if i ever do buy a region that buying a homestead or openspace sim is a mistake?

Ok I'll tell you the problem with land as a small time landlord, it keeps you extremely busy, this means you find at times you've spent all your time dealing with residents, and that's your job so you need to be doing that, but no time to develop other skills or get into content creation or even socilaise.

Then Linden Lab come along and kick you in the knackers with a new policy initiative.

Start small, get a bit of mainland, try renting it out and take it from there.

Most of the people who are big into Land today got it at times when it was cheaper and easier to acquire at auction, and when land prices were much higher at the parcel level. It used to be fairly easy, if you had the money up front, to buy a full sim of mainland, chop it into parcels, sell it, and move on with a profit. Those days are dead as a dodo.

There are also land "entrepreneurs" who made their gains by using land bots and buying land at L$1 or L$0 while two other people were trying to transfer ownership, and then selling it back to the people they stole it from at full market value, or to someone else at full market value. Profiting from the pain and mistakes of others.

And yes, there are some people, Like Desmond with his Steampunk-themed Caledon Estates, that slowly obtained a large number of sims, and have built it into a very successful and reputable business, by hard work and honest dealing. Doing that, and doing it well, is like managing to create a new and unique five-star restaurant in New York or Los Angeles. Certainly some people have an inspired idea, and the right combination of start up capital, talent, timing and sheer luck to pull it off. The average person can't expect to be so lucky with "yet another Taco stand".

I seem to recall that in a recent Blog post, the Lindens said that of the top ten money earners in SL, the first several had huge land estates. The next few were particularly talented and popular content creators. That is where people like Stroker come in. He was one of the first people to successfully make a bed with sex animations, that allowed you to choose from a range of animations. He was first to market and became an icon in that market niche - a brand name that virtually everyone knows. Again, a combination of an inspired idea, and the right combination of start up capital, talent, timing and sheer luck were necessary to pull it off.

I make a profit my self every month in SL. I sell textures for builders, and I design and build whole-sim projects. I work my tails off (plural intentional, I'm a three-tailed Kitsune in SL), and still only earn enough to buy a few nice luxuries for my family each month. In terms of time and effort spent for each dollar that I cash out? I'd do better financially by taking a 20 hour a week night job flipping burgers.

SL is NOT a place to seek to make money. If you like doing something in SL, and do it well, and work hard, then MAYBE you'll eventually make money here. Just like starting any business in the real world. But there is no magic, easy way to do it in SL. If anything, it is much harder to make a profit in SL than it is in real life.

yes i see what u mean .. Ceera . and stroker just came along at the right time. if he was to come along today . no one would know of him. sounds like u just have to have fun with what u do and if u happen to get lucky then other wise im waisting my time . i just thought if i sunk enough money to start it up . but then again i have to have the talent to make it work after that. oh depressing life it is do u all know of alot of land owners that are having it ruff? and are there more of them out there then the ones making a rl living at it ?

As someone who has been making a profit in SL for a few years now, here's my advice: DON'T TRY. The majority of people who come to SL intending to quit their RL job fail to do so. Doing something in SL that turns a RL profit is very hit and miss. I admit that I actually did come to SL hoping to find a niche, but it was out of desperation. My skills and a few unique ideas made me successful, but it should also be noted that my RL is pretty cheap so the fact that I support myself partly with my SL profits isn't really saying much. Skill and talent have a lot to do with success in SL business, but being in the right place at the right time has a lot to do with it as well.

That said, land is a bad choice for an entrepreneur. Renters have to be wary of scammers, and as such it's very hard for a new estate owner to get any takers. Renters will go for the places that already have a lot of renters to ask questions of, and a reputation already built up. The only way I've seen for a new estate to get off the ground is for the owner to rent to friends first, and build a reputation from there.

Edited to add: The point of doing anything in SL is FUN. Find something you like to do, and you might be able to turn it into a business.

yes Maya i see what u mean.. and if one doesnt have the friends he may have to cut price just enough to get renters and take a lose untill he does i suppose.. thanx for your advice

Maya how did u learn to create stuff ? i mean did u start at ivory tower? or someother way? your stuff looks nice inworld

***EXTREMELY*** few people "Make a living in RL" from what they do in Second Life.

In the last 60 days, 1,017,609 accounts logged in to Second Life.

In March 2009, the total number of people who cashed out more than $1,000 USD that month was 1304 people.

In March 2009, the total number of people who cashed out more than $2,000 USD that month was 657 people.

In March 2009, the total number of people who cashed out more than $5,000 USD that month was 233 people.

Do the math.

Roughly 0.1281% of the people who logged in to SL in the last 60 days managed to cash out a profit of $1,000 USD per month. Not 12 percent. Just over one-tenth of a percent! That is $250 USD per week, or $6.25 USD an hour, assuming a 40 hour work week. With no benefits, no insurance, no retirement plan, and no assurance LL won't pull the plug tomorrow. Roughly Minimum wage, for what is more likely the effort level of a skilled job.

Roughly 0.0646% of the people who logged in to SL in the last 60 days managed to cash out a profit of $2,000 USD per month. Not six percent. Six one-hundredths of a percent! And personally, I wouldn't consider $500 USD per week enough to live off of in RL, though that is $12.50 USD an hour, assuming a 40 hour work week. With no benefits, no insurance, no retirement plan, and no assurance LL won't pull the plug tomorrow.

Roughly 0.0229% of the people who logged in to SL in the last 60 days managed to cash out a profit of $5,000 per month. That would be $1,250 USD per week, or about $31.25 an hour, assuming a 40 hour work week (and I'll bet most of them put in closer to 80 hour work weeks). With no benefits, no insurance, no retirement plan, and no assurance LL won't pull the plug tomorrow.

wow nice Ceera . where did u get the stats ? that is interesting does it say just out of curiousity the 233 ppl that made 5000 in a month did? i would love to go to there shops and just look and see what they do

How many of these people sell their work in USD or through alternate currency exchanges, such as XStreetSL?

Not that those aren't very interesting numbers, but I'm not convinced Lindex trades are the sum total of business in SL.

Jack, your account says you've been here over a year, and yet you don't seem to understand basic stuff about land or business. This is the third time I've seen now that you're basically asking people here to make your business plan (!) and do market research for you.

I get the distinct impression that you're better off not getting into any SL business.

Lol people who have been in RL for a lot longer than a year often do not understand any better than he does, even people who have actually been in business for a few years often do not understand that much.

The successful ones do, but the unsuccessful ones often blame the lack of success on anything and everything other than their own lack of understanding.

yes Oleyn im just slow i guess . but theres just something about sl that makes me wanna do something. just dont know what . i have lately been going to the ivory tower and just learning to rez and build . i guess im just seeing what others have went through as to witch path to take.. i really like the idea of owning alot of land .. i dont know why but it appeals to me. however i do need to hear the bad of it before i get into something i no nothing about. sl has information about buying land but there it doesnt compare to hearing it from those who have experieced it. i think i need to learn to actually build before i even think of buying land. not sure how long that takes. i have just finished the first floor at the ivory towers so that lets u know where i stand there . as far as what i have been doing in sl for the past yr and a half .. camping here and there. going to live concerts. and renting small cabins for 80L a week . i did rent a quarter of a homestead from someone for about 6 months. it was around 8000 a month i think with around 850 prims. i think it was a good deal but had to leave cause of rl finacial concerns. but i look at the landlords side and the grass looks greener . hehe but from what i have read its not..

I really hate to add to the discouragement but the statement of not even being able to afford $30 a month COMPLETELY rules out any chance of you getting into the land game. We are not talking $L but a few thousand RL dollars to even be considered a land "hobbyist". This few thousand dollars is going to be tied up for a considerable amount of time before there is a return and a lot longer before you have a chance of returning your initial investment, none-the-less any profit.

EDIT to remove some of the harshness. But seriously, you need to take a part time job and build up some disposable income before thinking of investing in either SL itself or buying any software for creating. Relax and enjoy what is around you and just have fun. Be tickled if you create something that someone buys for $L100. If at some point you actually start to make enough to cover just tier then you have accomplished something.

http://secondlife.com/statistics/economy-data.php

No one is identified by name or business, no. Just aggregate stats, for which LL assures us that each "Person" counted is a unique individual, and not alts. Apparently if multiple accounts with payment info on file cash out, and refer to the same individual, they are combined before being counted in the statistics.

And yes, there are plenty of people who do work in SL and who get paid outside of SL.

Many SL Landlords collect their rent via PayPal subscription, for example. So when I pay my rent on my quarter-sim of a Private Island, the economic stats see me "cashing out" 70 bucks or so a month, but they don't show that the 70 bucks went from my Pay Pal into my landlord's pockets. If I had paid the same amount for the same parcel, but in L$ via an in-world payment station, it wouldn't have shown as a "profit" for me at all.

My sim building business will accept payments in-world in L$ for small projects, but for larger jobs clients pay me via PayPal or via a company check sent by mail. So a lot of my own "profit stream" doesn't show at all on the economic statistics.

Still, it is a pretty good indication of just how few people out of the millions who are active in SL actually make anything more than pocket change here. The vast majority of SL "Businesses" are more like hobbies, which break even or even lose money, but which the person running it is doing something they are having fun at. For example, I used to sell clothing in SL. I liked making clothes, and it was a great way to improve my texture making skills and learn how to be a merchant in SL. Often my sales for a given month didn't even cover what I was spending to rent mall space and store locations. But I was having fun and learning, and teh sales I *did* make defrayed some of my expenses.

Here is what M Linden said this month about the top people cashing out profits from SL.

WHAT SITE OR WHERE CAN I GO TO GET CLOTHING PICS OR WHATEVER TO MAKE CLOTHING? IM MAKING CLOTHING WITH THE TEMPLATES PROVIDED BY LINDEN I GUESS BUT I NEED PICS OF RL PANTS AND SHIRTS AND OTHER HINGS LIKE THAT CAN ANYONE HELP PLZ IM ME IF YOU KNOW , I GOT MY STORE TO FILL AND IM OPENING A CLUB AND WANT TO MAKE MY OWN STUFF TO SELL TY PLZ IM ME IF U KNOW TY!

cali Halostar

This is something I am very passionate about: TAKE CLASSES!!!!

When I began SL I said there were 3 things I would never do: Go Premium, buy land, own a business. I have now done all three.

What made me change my mind? I began taking classes because I come from an academic background and just love learning for the sake of learning. Check for classes in Events-Education.

After awhile, I made a few things that I wondered if they were good enough to sell. So I had a yard sale to clear out some of my unused inventory items and put one or two of my own builds out there. I was sooo thrilled the first time someone bought something I built!

It slowly evolved (I place the emphasis on *slowly*) into now having a small satellite shop thanks to the generosity of one of our forum posters, items on XStreet, and working on getting a new shop set up in a new Steampunk sim being built.

Ivory Tower is good, and there is a LOT of info on Robin Woods sim, Livingtree about building. I've done those as well. For me, I learn best by being in a class.

Good luck to you

Now that's a more reasonable assessment.


My working theory with Second Life is that the businesses that are successful are either /meta/ (as in meta-gaming, not metaverse) or dealing in what I call the "not" of the MMO, games, and social industries.

That is to say, most successful residents I'm aware of either specialize in systems within Second Life, such as land flipping and reseller systems like XStreetSL, or they tap into a niche that lacks a highly successful virtual world or MMOG, as with steampunk through Dune.

Even virtual sex falls in there somewhere as an underserved market (a trend that continues with each upgrade in media).


This is why Second Life is still an excellent staging area for new MMO games and communities. It allows someone to test the waters with a new idea, and if that idea is successful enough, build a business around it. To my knowledge, no other system exists that allows for that kind of prototyping with such a large community.

And with that said, most ideas still fail, and SL still presents significant technical hurdles. But even investing in a sim is cheaper than building an entire engine and company, only to discover the market isn't there.