Bots?

Why does this come up when speaking of a rubber doll?
She sure is not rubber, though she is a doll. Brainwashed enough to love me endlessly so she won't come back. Evah. Muhahahaha. Waiting for you, my fire is lighted

I know exactly wich resources my av is using, but it seems you dont. This is your quotes:



Wrong, i demostrate you with the facts and technical reason why my sleeping av is not affecting others experience.

...and again:



Wrong again, problems occur when the residents are *actively* using the asset server.



And you're again wrong, even with my sentences, i never wrote anywhere that an av logged in isn't using any resource, i've told you that my sleeping av is not using any resource that may cause the current problems of Second Life.
So asking me to quit my av because it may cause any sort of trouble, it is not motivated by the facts, and it is totally invented by you.
I may ask you to paint your face green (in real life indeed) to solve our problems... it would be fun, but the asset server will continue to fail.

When you wil have the technical competence to demostrate to me (or anyone else) that my sleeping av is causing the current trouble, i will be glad to quit it.

PS: you prims hair are causing real troubles here, plase go bald if you really want to help us.

So there's really someone searching the forum for "rubber"?

Going to give it one more try Colette, after that I guess I am finished

Most, of not all, problems are related to the asset system if you read the blogs. And even the times it is the logon server, it has got nothing to do with active logons but new ones.

Of course a traffic bot or sleeping character does use resources, but it are not those resources, that are giving problems the whole freakin time. They do not strain the systems that are collapsing. Do not do any transactions, do not have to rezz stuff, and if placed in a shybox they do not have to be rezzed for others to see. Seldom part of a group I guess (pretty useless). Not on friends lists probably.

So if a bot runner or a sleepy head logs off, it will not make the cranky systems less cranky. It will keep the concurency lower, but as said before that cannot be the actual problem. Even someone with no great IT knowledge can manage a system where 100.000 users are logged on together, hell I manager bigger environments. It is only, when those people are going to actually do things, that the systems are feeling an itch.

About putting away your toys after playing: When someone has his or her avatar sleep next to a partner in SL, that is still part of the play. It is not my kind of play, but I can understand it. Neither do I run bots, but I can understand it. So if you put your avatar to sleep and go to bed yourself, it is still part of the playing.

About the technical stuff above: Of course, I cannot be 100% sure as I do not have a blue print of their systems. But neither can you be sure. Still you are sounding as if your opinion is more valid then mine (or whoever agrees with me). That just is not right, opinions are never better then other opinions. What you can do, is support your opinion with facts you know about. A couple of people agreeing with me, and myself, did that. We happen to have enough IT knowledge to be able to put our fingers on the sore spots in a system. Neither of us is doing what he/she does with an attitude: screw the other users. As for me, I am 99.9% sure that any high prim avatar that is active puts more strain to the system then I do when I would run a couple of bots together with my own avatar.

I would have addressed you if I'd wanted to, Colette, but I wasn't talking to you. I was helping Vittorio to understand who he is having the discussion with. Reply if you want to, but I won't see it unless someone quotes it.

Have a good day.

The point is your "sleeping" Avatar is using the service when other people cant log on. Even if its the tiniest fraction of a problem towards the grid maladies it is selfish.

Your "sleeping" avatar is serving no purpose when neither you nor you online wife is at the keyboard.

Its an avatar, it matters when both participants are there, but when there is no one at the keyboard, its like putting Barbie and Ken in bed together and going "ahh how cute"



The difference being when I am done using my Avatar, Prim hair and all .. I log off.

A logged off avatar uses infinitely less resources than a logged on avatar.

Where did I ever say my opinion was better than anyone elses?

Thats all just made up in the heads of the people who disagree with me.




Look -

When there is a line for something, I wait my turn in line.

If I am in someone's home and I turn a light on, I turn it off when I am done with it.

If I accidentally get mail for my neighbor I walk over there and give it to them.

If a stray piece of trash blows into my yard I pick it up, rather than dropping it in the next persons yard.

If I need to log more than one Avatar on at a time, I try to make it as brief as possible.

And when I am done using Second Life, I log off.

The difference being that person with the high prim avatar is actively using it. Where the bots or someone sleeping is not.

As I said earlier in this thread, its hard to rail against individuals using their accounts in a manner that affects everyone when you have people logged on with MANY avatars at once.

Or people who aren't even using their Avatars logged on.

Linden Labs put the time-out feature that people bypass in there for a reason.


Now if you had all these extra log-ins under control and still needed to limit individual "consumption" of resources, I would support that.

Did somebody answer this, and I'm missing it?I haven't tried it with more than five accounts, but it would in fact be fraud to use anything other than truthful RL information when registering. This wouldn't be prosecuted, of course, unless the account were to get in trouble for other reasons, but if the RL identification information is turned over to law enforcement (as in response to a subpeona), and the authorities have to work to track down the identity because the information supplied wasn't accurate, it will not be a friendly game of hide-and-seek.

For more than five accounts, I very much doubt that one would have to change anything, but if necessary, one should be able to get away with non-deceptive changes (different punctuation or abbreviations, with/without middle name and/or initial, etc.).

Ohh- I think it was plainly obvious what you were doing, Phil.

You just don't like that I called you on it.

Fair enough. It has to do with the way you bring your arguments probably, but I might as well give you the feeling with my arguments as well
Still, as soon as someone uses words as unfair, they state that their view is better then the other ones. No idea whether you did that though to be honest.


Same with me. Though when I ran my 2 bots, I was never done using Second Life. They served a purpose. The only difference is the view of what is "done using SL" for you and for me.

Think we end up agreeing to disagree, nothing wrong with that.

For what it is worth, I truly think your level of discussing is better then is was before. It makes me feel less attacked for my opinion, something that does not belong in a discussion.
Sling, if you are still reading along (bet you are), that is the reason I decided to stop the discussion with you. No idea wether it was on purpose or not, but you felt extremely attacking in your postings. Since my only defense in that would have been a couter attack, I decided to gie it a break.

We are discussing something different.

Before we were discussing whether the use of Trafficbots is cheating the traffic system and gaming the metric.

That is separate from whether those same bots are logged on when other people cant get on.

Really, even though I do think Trafficbots are cheating the system, as long as everyone is able to reasonably log on it is less of a problem.

It is clumsy to put "In my opinion" in every statement. Especially when it is a given.

Thats why you often see forums signatures with disclaimers like "Everything I say is my opinion only"

Because some people with very thin skins do not understand thats a huge part of what forums are, people expressing their opinion on something.

Don't try to change the subject , "Frenchy".* I will find you and you will pay dearly, as will all bots who get in my way. Consider this your final warning......

*Yes, I know you are Belgian*

/start obscure subreference
Marcel is the great detective Poirot? I am honored to meet him.
/end obscure subreference

Go a bit furter North and you will find me, neither in France nor in Belgium that is
Now I am not a bit scared of you, seen your panties before young lady! So come and get me... but be ready for your defeat. Join the legions in which your sister is... by my side!



No je ne suis pas.... I guess when it comes to being detective, I am more alike mister "do you have a reum"... Nice meeting you here nevertheless

oh, een echte klopjacht, kan nog leuk worden

The language on these fora is english Abigail, but yes a man-hunt can become quite fun Especially when the prey becomes the hunter

Well, *asset server* problems happen when agents (or scripts) do something to access the asset server. But the Presence system is a different beast--one which has been relatively well behaved for the last week or so, but periodically we go through intervals when the Friends list fills with hippos--that's Presence, b0rked. And Presence is partially a product of raw concurrency (bots and all), and partially a product of logins, teleports, looking at Friends lists and Group info, etc.

It would be wishful thinking to just blithely assert that bots have no impact on the in-world experience of non-bot residents. And generally folks aren't claiming that, but rather saying that nobody (short of a Linden monitoring the central services clusters) can know what that impact is, which is certainly true. (On the other hand, it's so universally true that it's a bit of a cop-out. I.e., the old saw that the absence of evidence is not evidence of an absence.)

To the extent that the discussion is limited to strictly idle traffic bots, knowing what's public about the grid architecture, *probably* the impact is pretty small, at least as long as they login during non-peak times and don't try to log back in very soon or very often after being bumped. On the same basis, we can know for sure that bots logging off and on, teleporting around, or tag-team hammering Search *do* have a real effect on user experience. (The last of those is one place LL tried to respond to the increased load bots placed on the grid--which gave rise to the "tag-team" approach: basically a DDoS in bot clothing.)

I guess my real point here is that "responsible bot use" requires a great deal of attention to detail, and even then is just doing the best one can with the limited information available.

There are legitimate needs for functionality that currently can only be achieved by bots; group-invite bots, for example. These seem distinct in kind from trafficbots or campingbots, I guess because they work around a limitation as opposed to exploiting one.

No quoting the whole post, but this is a valid point. Even more, it's about the only load static bots put on the system. But isnce they are not on friends lists, not on groups, and not teleporting, my guess is that this load is pretty minimal.

About the only way to know wether ones use of bots is responsible, is asking the Lindens wether they are. And even then, it is always the question wether the Linden in question knows enough about it. But its the only thing we can more or less trust. On the other hand, enough knowledge about how systems work in general (I have seen a few good postings about it), people can make pretty well though through decision.

I'm not sure that repeating again to you the same thing would let you understand, but i give it a try. My sleeping av is NOT the cause of the other ppl not being able to login, if i quit it, i don't give "my place" to someone else. Does my english is really so bad? Do you speak english? Italian? Maybe we have a problem of communication here.



You are wrong again, my "sleeping" avatar is part of a roleplay game. Do you ever known why this "game" is called "Second Life"? It's not just build, run your store, and show your fancy new noobz hair. Second Life involves also an emotional sphere and these emotions comes outside of you monitor into your real life. So just knowing that my av is sleeping with my girlfriend (RL) av, gives to you (both me and her) a "positive feel" while you are sleeping in real life. As soon i've ended to teach you the technical matters of Second Life, i will start with the lesson on how human brain works (but on a separate thread please, and in the OT section).
To the previous question (do you speak english / do you understand me), i'm gonna add then: are you an human lifeform?



Exactly girl (?) ! It is EXACTLY that. With the "muppets" representing real persons.
It is how the whole world works, based on human sempsations, when i give a present to someone, it may be a single flower, it may have no concrete value and no purposes, but it still have an emotional value, and this is affect your (real) life.



I don't think that your prim hair are more important than my av sleeping togeter with my partner. But it's just my opinion... anyway consider the option to go bald, please, because it would help, in the end you don't really need your hair on a bunch of pixel.



Uh! The only correct thing you wrote so far, so please, don't log in anymore.

Look if you think that your Avatar being logged in "sleeping" with your online wife's avatar is more important than other people being able to log on When you two aren't even there to watch it..

You are a loon.

The is *some* impact to you being logged on. Yes only the Linden Engineers know how much, but its *some* as in "more than *none*".

Lets say for your benefit it is 1/100,000 th of a normally active avatar. That means you are only 1/100,000 th selfish when you stay logged on when others cant get in. But you are still selfish.

And the traffic bot runner running 20 traffic bots is 20/100,000 th selfish.

Its really a simple concept.


And here another clue to both you and Phil - I do understand your argument, because I *DISMISS* it doesn't mean I don't understand it.

I simply don't believe you on the technical aspects, because neither of you works for Linden Labs and neither is privileged to know the exact workings of the systems.

However I do know LL shuts off logins so *MORE* people don't get on. And therefore people being on that don't need to be are not helping things any.

Wrong, other avatars are being able to login in while im sleeping. Other avatars wouldn't allowed to login in when LL closes the login, whenever im connected or not, sleeping or not sleeping.



Yes we're using resource that are not the cause of the current trouble. So there's no reason for me to ask to logoff, while there's concrete reason for me to ask you to remove your prim hair. I'm sorry, this is the fact.



Yes it is, but you don't/won't understand.



You don't have to "believe" me, you need to read, you need to open books, you need to get informed, you need to: *LEARN*. So you don't have to trust persons, because you have enough skill and information to elaborate a concept yourself.
You have two option actually: the first is you sit down and read, so come back when you have more informations; the second is to learn from other ppl and "believing" what they say because of their (supposed) skill. All other options makes you write a bunch of nosense motivations, and none would believe your theory if it's based just on: "i think your sleeping av is causing trouble to the grid"; on the other side when i say: your prim har are causing trouble to the other resident, i can provide you technical reasons why they does.



Wrong again: they doesn't reopen the login when the number of concurrent users decreases, but when the query asset database queue is cleaned up. My logged av doesn't help to reduce the queue, on the other side my NOT logged av doesn't help it as well. Conclusion: my sleeping av does have nothing to do with the current topic.

(did you removed your prim hair?)

Conclusion: if Vittorio was as breathtakingly patronising to people in RL, the probability of him being punched in the face on a regular basis would be pretty high.

Conclusion: if you would read and digest what Vittorio has to say, instead of trying to be a smart ass - and failing miserably - you would be much better off for it.

Vittorio:
You cannot win the argument. You and Colette have different intentions in the discussion. She isn't interested in the topic, or in common sense, or in knowledge, or in understanding. She is only interested in trolling - keeping it going. It's what she does for fun. But you *are* making her look silly

Phil. Read it, digested it, felt the constant patronising diverted from the actual subject, and ended up being amused by how quickly it took you to pipe up again.

I actually think I'm a passable smartarse. You've cut me to the quick, Phil.