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Blue Mars beta

Maelstrom Janus
Ban Ban Lines !!!
Join date: 4 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
04-24-2009 05:26
From: Argent Stonecutter
No scripting except by the city owner, so your jet-pack won't do anything if the city owner doesn't want it to. I make the most popular flight aid in SL, and it even works where the parcel owner has disabled scripts. Oh, and it's not a jetpack.


You need a TARDIS argent mine normally seems to work when I boost the drive curcuits ;)
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
04-24-2009 05:34
From: Rock Vacirca
There isn't a 'no-fly dilemma in Blue Mars', that was misrepresentation of the facts by Briana, who took this question, and the reply statement by Jim Sink of Avatar-reality:



and turned that into a 'No flying' headline in her post.


Whatever.

It was a not headline. It was one line in a list of many things.

Misrepresentation is malicious.

Stop being a jerk saying I am intentionally or as you said but tried to erase: "deliberately" misrepresenting the facts.

I made both my posts with TWO sites linked including yours. It was there for anyone to go and re-assess the statements made in my post.

Why don't you try not being overly sensitive about the information be it right, wrong, or negative opinions, being expressed in the thread. And FFS stop saying im deliberately or intentional or misrepresenting anything - we are all learning the information as it trickles down from the people at BM onto various websites sprinkled across the interwebs, and i am starting to resent your constant angle of attack at me that I am trying to slander that virtual world project.

I'm already thinking of the debauchery that I can do in my own region since my coder is in the beta. :P
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Maelstrom Janus
Ban Ban Lines !!!
Join date: 4 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
04-24-2009 05:43
From: Briana Dawson
Whatever.

It was a not headline. It was one line in a list of many things.

Misrepresentation is malicious.

Stop being a jerk saying I am intentionally or as you said but tried to erase: "deliberately" misrepresenting the facts.

I made both my posts with TWO sites linked including yours. It was there for anyone to go and re-assess the statements made in my post.

Why don't you try not being overly sensitive about the information be it right, wrong, or negative opinions, being expressed in the thread. And FFS stop saying im deliberately or intentional or misrepresenting anything - we are all learning the information as it trickles down from the people at BM onto various websites sprinkled across the interwebs, and i am starting to resent your constant angle of attack at me that I am trying to slander that virtual world project.

I'm already thinking of the debauchery that I can do in my own region since my coder is in the beta. :P



yes yes fair enough...but where can I get to see what blue mars looks like please ??
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
04-24-2009 05:43
From: Rock Vacirca
This question was answered by Avatar Reality recently:

====================================
3. What will be the hardware requirements for Blue Mars?

JS: We recently put together a US$400 home PC the other day, and Blue Mars ran fine on it. I would say that the most important requirement is that the PC should have a dedicated graphics card, as opposed to an integrated graphics chip.

I wonder what they consider "ran fine". I know people who claim SL will run fine on hardware I consider completely unacceptable.
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:06
From: Maelstrom Janus
yes yes fair enough...but where can I get to see what blue mars looks like please ??


The company that built Central City in Blue Mars is VSE. Here are some of the videos of Blue Mars from their website:

http://www.virtualspaceentertainment.com/

Go to Explore in the left pane, then choose Media.

Rock
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-24-2009 06:12
From: Rock Vacirca
There isn't a 'no-fly dilemma in Blue Mars'
No, there's a "no script dilemma". Not being able to fly by default is a symptom of the design of the system. Not being able to build or script by default (or at all, it seems, without being a developer *and* having the approval of the city owner) is a much bigger symptom.

In SL everyone is equal. In Blue Mars there's a hierarchy, and the people at the bottom of the hierarchy have less ability to express their creativity than tourists in Disneyland do.
From: someone
BM wish to encourage city owners not to enable flying where it would be out of theme with the city
If my avatar is a legless robot getting around using ducted fan engines then not being able to fly is out of theme with my character.

That's assuming that BM allows you to be a werebot* in the first place. Which it doesn't seem it's going to.

* [See "True Names", a novella by Vernor Vinge and the first fictional example of the kind of shared virtual reality we have in SL that I've been able to find]
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:14
From: Milla Janick
I wonder what they consider "ran fine". I know people who claim SL will run fine on hardware I consider completely unacceptable.


I saw some posts this last week on SL where people had no idea about the the SL water, and other great effects, until they recently upgraded their graphics cards and had their socks blown off by the experience, and wondered how they ever accepted SL previously.

However, I think the AR tests to see how low they could go with PC specs were a little more subjective than that, as they knew quite well what they needed to see.

If they say it 'ran fine' then I have no reason to doubt them, as the results will be known soon enough when the first reports of the closed beta start to come in. For sure, if I find anything that they have claimed not to be true, or only partially true, I will be writing about it in my reports.

Rock
Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
04-24-2009 06:21
From: Rock Vacirca
If they say it 'ran fine' then I have no reason to doubt them

Try to build a PC with a legal copy of Windows, a $100 video card and a monitor for $400.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-24-2009 06:23
From: Rock Vacirca
If they say it 'ran fine' then I have no reason to doubt them, as the results will be known soon enough when the first reports of the closed beta start to come in.
You're not in the Beta? You're making authoritative statements about what is or is not possible in Blue Mars and you haven't actually seen it either?
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:24
From: Argent Stonecutter
No, there's a "no script dilemma". Not being able to fly by default is a symptom of the design of the system. Not being able to build or script by default (or at all, it seems, without being a developer *and* having the approval of the city owner) is a much bigger symptom.

In SL everyone is equal. In Blue Mars there's a hierarchy, and the people at the bottom of the hierarchy have less ability to express their creativity than tourists in Disneyland do.
If my avatar is a legless robot getting around using ducted fan engines then not being able to fly is out of theme with my character.

That's assuming that BM allows you to be a werebot* in the first place. Which it doesn't seem it's going to.

* [See "True Names", a novella by Vernor Vinge and the first fictional example of the kind of shared virtual reality we have in SL that I've been able to find]


In SL, anyone can build or create and run scripts, except on no-build and no-script land. But, if you neither own or rent land in SL, what do you do with the castle you have just built for yourself exactly?

Sandbox builds get returned, and newbies should not be encouraged to just build willy-nilly on other people's land or leave their builds there.

I now do all my building and scripting outside of SL, using OpenSim on my own PC.

In the case of Blue Mars you can also install the SDK (Sandbox) on your own PC and do all your building and scripting there. What you cannot then do is to upload it onto someone else's land in BM. Why is that such a no-no for you? You seem to be saying that you think people should have the right to build or create and test scripts on someone else's land. If you are not advocating that, then why is the SDK not perfectly adequate for your building/scripting needs?

Rock
Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:25
From: Milla Janick
Try to build a PC with a legal copy of Windows, a $100 video card and a monitor for $400.


http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/690750

Rock
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-24-2009 06:27
As the system administrator where I once worked used to say, "Never buy a computer built by a company that rhymes with 'Hell'".
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:28
From: Argent Stonecutter
You're not in the Beta? You're making authoritative statements about what is or is not possible in Blue Mars and you haven't actually seen it either?


No, wrong. I am in the beta, and I have seen Blue Mars, but I have an high-end gaming machine, not a US$400 PC.

Rock
Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
04-24-2009 06:31

That's almost $500 and has a bottom feeder video card.
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:35
From: Argent Stonecutter
As the system administrator where I once worked used to say, "Never buy a computer built by a company that rhymes with 'Hell'".


OK, the spec is now changed from:

'Try to build a PC with a legal copy of Windows, a $100 video card and a monitor for $400', to,

'Try to build a PC with a legal copy of Windows, a $100 video card and a monitor for $400 and doesn't rhyme with Hell' (that rules out Dell then). How about this one then:

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/684068/?int=right_nav_desktops

Or are we going to get, and doesn't rhyme with 'Tom-Crack'?

Rock
Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
04-24-2009 06:38

Over $500, integrated graphics they said was the most important thing to avoid.
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:39
From: Milla Janick
That's almost $500 and has a bottom feeder video card.


Damn exchange rates!

how about this one then, from a US source

http://www.amazon.com/Compaq-CQ2009F-Desktop-Intel-Processor/dp/B001P5GJCW/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1240580255&sr=1-7
Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:40
or this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Presario-SR5710F-Desktop-Dual-Core-Processor/dp/B001NXDBHC/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1240580255&sr=1-11

Rock
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-24-2009 06:40
From: Rock Vacirca
In SL, anyone can build or create and run scripts, except on no-build and no-script land.
Not at all the same. You can build vehicles and drive them through no-build and no-script land, there are rez points all over the place. You can wear attachments... and attach them even in no-build land. You can learn to build in a sandbox or on an open parcel (and that's the default) without having to go through any kind of approval process, with your friends present so you can ask them for help, or just hang around where other people are building stuff. If you built something and you want to show it off, and someone suggests a change, you can change it right there. You don't have to set up a sandbox on your own PC, isolated from the virtual reality, until you have something you're ready to show off.

From: someone
You seem to be saying that you think people should have the right to build or create and test scripts on someone else's land.
Yes. Of course. Why shouldn't they? In the real world I can pull out a pad and draw a picture and give it to someone, change my jacket, pull my PDA out of my briefcase or backpack and play a game on it or look something up or even write a program. I can sit down in a park and lay out a blanket and have a picnic.

In SL it's possible for the landowner or estate owner to make some of those things harder or even impossible, but that's not the default. In Blue Mars, the landowner can't make any of that possible even if he wants to, unless you're a developer... and even as a developer you can't do it in-world while people around you involve themselves in the process.

From: someone
If you are not advocating that, then why is the SDK not perfectly adequate for your building/scripting needs?
Because in the real world creation is a social and interactive process. If a 3d simulation doesn't allow it to be like that, then it's not a virtual world as far as I'm concerned.
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
04-24-2009 06:43

Neither come with a monitor, and both have crap integrated graphics controllers.

I think you'll find that very few off the shelf low end PCs come with good video cards, or are even capable of accepting one due to case design or inadequate power supplies.
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All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-24-2009 06:43
From: Rock Vacirca
Try to build a PC with a legal copy of Windows, a $100 video card and a monitor for $400 and doesn't rhyme with Hell' (that rules out Dell then)
Packard Bell, Dell, and Gateway were what he specified. He said Gateway rhymes with "Hell" if you ever used one... in fact it rhymes with a lot of other four letter words as well.

Though I think Gateway is out of business now.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 06:45
with this Dell 17inch monitor for US$85.

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-e178fp-17-inch-Flat-Monitor/dp/B001AZX3PS/ref=sr_1_64?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1240580613&sr=1-64

Oh no!! Just realised it rhymes with 'hell'!!

Rock :)
Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 07:11
From: Argent Stonecutter
You can learn to build in a sandbox or on an open parcel (and that's the default) without having to go through any kind of approval process, with your friends present so you can ask them for help, or just hang around where other people are building stuff. If you built something and you want to show it off, and someone suggests a change, you can change it right there. You don't have to set up a sandbox on your own PC, isolated from the virtual reality, until you have something you're ready to show off.

Yes. Of course. Why shouldn't they?


Your experience of SL seems to be diametrically opposed to mine. I could not find anything more boring than hanging around while someone else is building. Conversely, when I built I placed a platform way up high, and set my status to Busy so I could build in peace without interruption. However, I still did get interrupted, frequently (and not by people who wanted to watch, or offer opinion or advice), so I now build in OpenSim. All the architects in SL that I know personally, all prefer to build in peace, and set to Busy.

I also think it is very bad manners to start building on someone else's land, after all, they have paid for it. I run several residential sims, and I am forever having to do sweeps of them cleaning up after visitors have left their 'builds' behind. I want to create as lovely an environment for my tenants as possible, and having a beautifully designed beach, cluttered with 'builds' left behind by non-residents infuriates me. I send the creator of these objects a polite but firm IM not to do it again, and if they do, then I ban their ass.

As for scripting, I never do that in SL. I always do it offline, using LSLEditor, which checks for syntax and other errors.

My turn to put my neck on the chopping board - I'll bet (L$10) that if you ask scripters in the Scripting Tips forum which they prefer, to create scripts online inside SL or offline using an external editor, the majority will say offline.

Rock
Nikki Inventor
Registered User
Join date: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 16
04-24-2009 07:13
How about these :)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=lenovo&x=0&y=0

No "hell" involved :)
Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
04-24-2009 07:20
From: Rock Vacirca

My turn to put my neck on the chopping board - I'll bet (L$10) that if you ask scripters in the Scripting Tips forum which they prefer, to create scripts online inside SL or offline using an external editor, the majority will say offline.


/54/a5/317832/1.html
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