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Blue Mars beta

Jesse Barnett
500,000 scoville units
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 4,160
04-22-2009 05:54
From: Maelstrom Janus
That being the case why were Lindens so thrilled not so long back to be promoting 'experiments' in 'inter-world jumps ??'

And Lindens are involved in it's development.
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I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime.
From: someone
I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum
Maelstrom Janus
Ban Ban Lines !!!
Join date: 4 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
04-22-2009 05:58
What I want to see in SL are more benefits for paying SL customers. In 2 years all Ive ever seen is complex redtape which meant paying more or restrictions on aspects of sl which people enjoy.

On the building front Id have expected some increase in the amount of prims per plot and the introduction of bigger prims too. There have been no new shapes of prim added and no sign of the ability to add text to prims either.

There have been no beneficial change in tier allowances or prices, no offers or bonuses for regular paying customers.

Customers not in the USA still have to pay american tiers in american currency. This despite the fact that European customers were subject to VAT because of Lindens presence on 'this side of the pond' which of course Lindens have heralded - desppite it making little difference to grass roots paying customers.

Theres been no change in two years about the ridiculous effects of crossing a region. And transparency issues with textures are as bad if not worse than two years ago when I joined.

I love building, I love owning land but viable competitors are slowly springing up and finding their feet AND they offer MORE - once these sites have their economies and admin in place I think lindens might need to offer more carrots to keep addicted donkey like myself from wandering to new pastures.
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Maelstrom Janus
Ban Ban Lines !!!
Join date: 4 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
04-22-2009 05:59
From: Jesse Barnett
And Lindens are involved in it's development.



So therefore if trying to encourage and develop this it seems stupid trying to stop people discussing other worlds....
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Argent Stonecutter
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Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-22-2009 06:04
OpenSim is not "competition".
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
04-22-2009 06:27
I still want to know if the gravity will be one third earth gravity and what the air pressure and make-up will be.

Hair and skirts would move strangely in 1/3 g, I would think, and running avatars might need to use the lunar kangaroo hop-jump approach.

Folks might get impatient waiting for things to fall down.

Different air pressure and gravity would affect aerodynamics, although I'm not sure what the result would be.

Different atmospheric pressure composition would affect such things as to how fires behave.
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Infrared Wind
Gridologist
Join date: 7 Jan 2007
Posts: 662
04-22-2009 06:29
Just my two cents: if I were Linden Labs I would openly welcome discourse concerning other virtual worlds as I do.

These forums are the pulse of the SL community (as are privately run forums).

- Infrared
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-22-2009 07:29
From: Maelstrom Janus
That being the case why were Lindens so thrilled not so long back to be promoting 'experiments' in 'inter-world jumps ??'


I was involved in that Gridnauts project, and in the successful teleports between the Second Life beta grid and various opensim-based grids, the mechanics of which were then encapsulated into the Open Grid Protocol, OGP.

I doubt very much if OGP will ever be rolled out onto the Main Grid, mainly due to pressure from content creators who fear that their content could get onto the various OpenSim-based grids, and from there into the wild.

OpenSim (OS) itself is not a Virtual World, but a platform from which Virtual Worlds can be built. There are quite a lot of grids now using OS, or derivatives, some well-known ones are OpenLife, 3rd Rock, and HiPiHi.

Rock
Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-22-2009 07:35
From: Infrared Wind
Just my two cents: if I were Linden Labs I would openly welcome discourse concerning other virtual worlds as I do.

These forums are the pulse of the SL community (as are privately run forums).

- Infrared


I was even warned by Kat not to discuss OpenSim in these forums when I was actively working with Lindens on the Gridnaut project with the Opensimulator community! Fortunately, Whump Linden briefed her on the work, and she withdrew her objections.

However, she did say in her IM to me that the reason she stopped discussion of other, competing, Virtual Worlds in these forums, was because some people here had started to take the p*** by providing the competitor's pricing details and providing links.

Rock
Maelstrom Janus
Ban Ban Lines !!!
Join date: 4 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
04-22-2009 07:45
I see no harm in discussing the benefits offered by other virtual worlds especially if it forces Lindens to extract a digit and start offering better features and deals to its paying customers...

and sometimes I think people forget that we are paying customers.....
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Ting Luminos
Registered User
Join date: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 65
04-22-2009 09:42
I would think LL would be fascinated by this thread. Great feedback for them and a touchstone of how people feel about BM, other future competition, what loyalty the SL brand has and so on.

For me as a content creator, a big attraction to BM is no anonymous accounts will be allowed to build and sell, so no copybot.

The other things that excite and intrigue me about BM :
1. Mesh import - thank goodness, what a relief that will be.
2. The Cryengine - no more dumbing downs one's skills to make stuff work for SL.
3. The much grander scale of the cities/islands - SL sims are starting to feel very small and are creatively stifling in comparison to BM.
4. Single mesh/skin creatures and characters. This is exciting stuff. how about a 100ft sea serpent with intelligence or perhaps horses one could ride through huge, deep forests
5. Last but not least - Beauty ! more beauty is possible with the Cryengine - it helps you look good as a content creator

Regarding loyalty to SL :
I feel I owe a great debt to LL for the opportunities. SL has improved my life in 101 different ways, so

I do have loyalty and love for SL, but let's remember the words of the Eagles song :

They will never forget you 'til somebody new comes along
Where you been lately? There's a new kid in town
Everybody loves him, don't they?
Now he's holding her, and you're still around
Oh, my, my
There's a new kid in town
just another new kid in town
Ooh, hoo
Everybody's talking 'bout the new kid in town,
Ooh, hoo
Everybody's walking' like the new kid in town
There's a new kid in town
Theres a new kid in town people started walking
There's a new kid in town
I don't want to hear it
There's a new kid in town
I don't want to hear it
There's a new kid in town
There's a new kid in town
There's a new kid in town
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-22-2009 16:19
From: CarlCorey Colman
Reminds me of a couple decades back when a *LOT* of people were ready to dump Windows for any viable alternative not only looking for better technology but also because of Microsoft's arrogance and poor CS. Along came OS/2, vastly superior technology for the time and is *wasn't* Microsoft.


Lulz @ inferring Linden Labs could be the next Microsoft.
Nikki Inventor
Registered User
Join date: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 16
04-22-2009 16:50
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
I still want to know if the gravity will be one third earth gravity and what the air pressure and make-up will be.

Hair and skirts would move strangely in 1/3 g, I would think, and running avatars might need to use the lunar kangaroo hop-jump approach.

Folks might get impatient waiting for things to fall down.

Different air pressure and gravity would affect aerodynamics, although I'm not sure what the result would be.

Different atmospheric pressure composition would affect such things as to how fires behave.

Well, hopefully they will be smart enough to make gravity as a user-adjustable variable. Then you can create an earth city at 1g, or a moon city at 1/6 g, or Mars city at 1/3 g. Or if you wish, you can create a black hole with infinity g and suck everyone into your city, including your money :)

Isn't that sci fi in the making?

The fact is, all these gravitational force, atmospheric pressure and viscosity are merely parameters in the physics engine (or coefficients in the set of differential equations), they are adjustable parameters. And since CryEngine does all of work to solve the physics equations, it is nothing more than changing the parameters in the CryEngine's simulator engine.

I guess the key question is whether they will allow the CityDeveloper to alter those variables for their cities.

It would be smart for them to allow gravity and all those environmental variables be user-adjustable so you can change them just like adjusting the aerodynamic variables for the cloud, wind, and temperature.

If they let you do that, then you can even create your own hurricane vortex like Jupiter. Wouldn't it be fun?

I think they may be hesitant to allow anyone to change those variables if they are not geeky Developers, because if some stupid city owner set it wrong and change it into anti-gravity, they would eject everyone and all their build out of their own city flying through the sky :( What an entertaining thought!
Tinkerbell Tarantal
Departed
Join date: 13 May 2008
Posts: 86
04-22-2009 18:42
What kind of machine do I need to run Blue Mars?

The Blue Mars client is built for Vista based machines with dedicated 3D graphics hardware. We are constantly working to optimize our software. Official minimum and recommended specs will be released at launch.

Got this statement from the avatar reality site, hope the info is outdated now and does include windows? I am looking forward to exploring BM!
Nikki Inventor
Registered User
Join date: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 16
zero-gravity fly
04-22-2009 21:00
I think we have to wait when they roll out their preview to see what they mean by no-fly. I guess it is everyone's guess now. From their description, it seems to me when they explain it is that you can fly using a vehicle, but not fly free with zero gravity like in SL.

My guess is that they may be implementing everything faithfully realistic to physical reality. If that is the case, flying would defy gravity, so it becomes an impossibility. That may be why they say need a vehicle to fly in a physically realistic world. I think that limitation is imposed by the physics engine, because you may not be turn off gravity to zero for your avatar but not everything else around you.

There is a way to defy gravity and fly free. You can theoretically set your avatar's mass to zero. With zero mass, you can fly free even with gravity.

But there is a problem. If you ever collide with anything, your velocity will go to infinity because that is what you get for a zero-mass object on collision based on conservation of momentum :(

The only way to solve this problem is to turn your avatar into non-physical while flying, and turn it back into physical when you land.
Nikki Inventor
Registered User
Join date: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 16
Fly like a bird, flap your wings
04-22-2009 21:07
Another way to fly is to change your avatar skeleton into wings, and reduce your mass to be light enough to stay airborne when you flap your wings.

That will still obey the law of gravity by the aerodynamics of your wing flapping like a bird without breaking the physics law imposed by the physics engine :)

That will be a truly realistic flight simulator!

I guess you will fly like an angel with wings on your back without being a bird :)
Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-23-2009 00:27
From: Tinkerbell Tarantal
What kind of machine do I need to run Blue Mars?

The Blue Mars client is built for Vista based machines with dedicated 3D graphics hardware. We are constantly working to optimize our software. Official minimum and recommended specs will be released at launch.

Got this statement from the avatar reality site, hope the info is outdated now and does include windows? I am looking forward to exploring BM!


This question was answered by Avatar Reality recently:

====================================
3. What will be the hardware requirements for Blue Mars?

JS: We recently put together a US$400 home PC the other day, and Blue Mars ran fine on it. I would say that the most important requirement is that the PC should have a dedicated graphics card, as opposed to an integrated graphics chip. Most cards on the market today over 100$ are fine. Blue Mars will run on Vista or XP, and will use DirectX. Of course, the better the graphics card and the more memory you have, the better the experience will be. There are no plans right now to launch either a Mac or Linux version.
====================================
http://rock-vacirca.blogspot.com/2009/04/interview-with-jim-sink-of-avatar.html

Rock
Maelstrom Janus
Ban Ban Lines !!!
Join date: 4 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
04-23-2009 09:40
From: Rock Vacirca
This question was answered by Avatar Reality recently:

====================================
3. What will be the hardware requirements for Blue Mars?

JS: We recently put together a US$400 home PC the other day, and Blue Mars ran fine on it. I would say that the most important requirement is that the PC should have a dedicated graphics card, as opposed to an integrated graphics chip. Most cards on the market today over 100$ are fine. Blue Mars will run on Vista or XP, and will use DirectX. Of course, the better the graphics card and the more memory you have, the better the experience will be. There are no plans right now to launch either a Mac or Linux version.
====================================
http://rock-vacirca.blogspot.com/2009/04/interview-with-jim-sink-of-avatar.html

Rock


Ive only skimmed through this thread but when I looked at the blue mars website the best I could do was request an email when things are ready to go. However Rock your post suggests things are up and running...

Have I missed something ??
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Maelstrom Janus
Ban Ban Lines !!!
Join date: 4 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
04-23-2009 09:49
Ting said '

4. Single mesh/skin creatures and characters. This is exciting stuff. how about a 100ft sea serpent with intelligence or perhaps horses one could ride through huge, deep forests'

I like your thinking but if free thinking, free roaming animal life was allowed in sl youd get idiots whod want 'em penned in, shot or banned.....
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
04-23-2009 11:53
I regularly look at Virtual World News, where I get snippets of info on the wider scene.

Blue Mars aside, almost all the new worlds or ones being developed seem to be cartoony ones where the avatars have huge heads, like Google Lively was - the animated 3D chatroom type where you can do a few things.
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Nikki Inventor
Registered User
Join date: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 16
Jet pack flying
04-23-2009 14:34
Another way to solve the no-fly dilemma in BM is simply wear a jet-pack to fly. It may be a bit inconvenient, but hey, it can probably fly faster than SL's flying :) Besides, SL flying does not work at high altitude.

Even in SL, you still need a jet pack to fly when you are in a skybox.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-23-2009 14:41
From: Nikki Inventor
Another way to solve the no-fly dilemma in BM is simply wear a jet-pack to fly.
No scripting except by the city owner, so your jet-pack won't do anything if the city owner doesn't want it to. I make the most popular flight aid in SL, and it even works where the parcel owner has disabled scripts. Oh, and it's not a jetpack.
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Gusher Castaignede
SL Builder
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 342
04-24-2009 00:04
I am already getting the itch to explore the Cryengine :) Facinating to see the future of 3d web exploding...
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 04:47
From: Maelstrom Janus
Ive only skimmed through this thread but when I looked at the blue mars website the best I could do was request an email when things are ready to go. However Rock your post suggests things are up and running...

Have I missed something ??


Blue Mars is up and running, but in closed beta right now. The central city area is now being expanded by the creation of new cities. Anyone can apply to be a city developer. The public beta will be in June.

Rock
Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
04-24-2009 05:18
From: Argent Stonecutter
No scripting except by the city owner, so your jet-pack won't do anything if the city owner doesn't want it to. I make the most popular flight aid in SL, and it even works where the parcel owner has disabled scripts. Oh, and it's not a jetpack.


There isn't a 'no-fly dilemma in Blue Mars', that was misrepresentation of the facts by Briana, who took this question, and the reply statement by Jim Sink of Avatar-reality:

From: someone
Won’t be able to fly!?

If a developer wants it, their avatars will be able to fly, but the standard locomotion is not flying. You can get into a vehicle and fly but the framework for people to locomote isn’t flying.


and turned that into a 'No flying' headline in her post.

The facts about flying are these:

Flying is permitted in cities where the city owner has it switched on (in exactly the same way as Region owners in SL. In SL it is on by default and can be switched off, in BM it is off by default and can be switched on. However, I would be surprised if the proportion of city owners in BM who have flying switched on will be much different to the proportion of region owners in SL who have flying switched on.

BM wish to encourage city owners not to enable flying where it would be out of theme with the city, but the ultimate decision will be left to the city owner.

As far as scripting is concerned anyone may script, it is not confined to city owners. You are perfectly free to script jet packs, or any other kind of vehicle, and sell them in any store in BM. As in SL, some city owners in BM may not allow scripts to run, but again, I would be surprised if the proportion of cities where scripts are inhibited will be much different to the proportion of SL regions where scripts are inhibited.

Rock
Maelstrom Janus
Ban Ban Lines !!!
Join date: 4 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
04-24-2009 05:25
From: Rock Vacirca
Blue Mars is up and running, but in closed beta right now. The central city area is now being expanded by the creation of new cities. Anyone can apply to be a city developer. The public beta will be in June.

Rock



so is there anyway I can see what it looks like ?

Screen shots ?

U-Tube videos ?
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