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Blue Mars beta

Ephraim Kappler
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Join date: 9 Jul 2007
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04-20-2009 03:24
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
Will the gravity be .38 earth gravity?

What about the air pressure and atmospheric composition?

The terraformers have been at work long enough by the time of the third book, Blue Mars, for the planet to have an atmosphere reasonably similar to that of Earth. As far as I recall, one of the main characters was pretty pissed at how the natural environment was altered somewhat by the process. She chose to live as a solitary nomad in the wilder regions.
Rock Vacirca
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Join date: 18 Oct 2006
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04-20-2009 03:40
From: Briana Dawson
Here is a very informative Q&A on Blue Mars: http://npirl.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-answers-and-more-questions.html

- No Teleporting
- Probably no sex (undecided at the moment)
- No Flying
- No Gambling
- Sharded servers if regions get full
- Developers will be able to limit what you bring into their region. I.e., they can allow only certain clothing outfits like speedo's or tuxedo - and since sex is undecided, no nudity if they want.
- No Inworld content creation tools
- Will not run on Macs without Boot Camp

-----


A disingenuous take, if I may say so.

1. Teleporting
Teleporting in BM IS permissible. It is entirely up to the owner of a city if he wishes to allow it or not. In much the same way that Estate owners in SL can decide whether to allow building, flying, terraforming, or whether to allow point-to-point teleporting, or restrict it with a single designated teleport hub. BM want to discourage a teleport free-for-all, but they are leaving the decision to city owners (developers).

2. 'Probably' no sex.
Where did you get this information? From what I have gathered from talks with BM staff, sex WILL be permitted, in much the same way as SL is proposing right now, ie. between two consenting adults in their home in BM there will be no restrictions. The question of 'sex' refers to much same questions that SL are wrestling with right now, i.e. whether to have sex clubs, BDSM cities, porno cinemas etc, that are accessible to all, or just by subscription to a particular city, or whether to allow it at all. It is still to be decided.

3. No Flying
Again, absolutely not true, see 1) above. It will be the same as SL, where some regions permit flying, and some regions do not.

4. No gambling
Same as SL

5. Sharded Servers
This is an advantage, not a disadvantage. WoW uses sharded servers to great effect.

6. City owners (developers) will be renting residential and commercial space as they do in SL. They will have covenants, as they do in SL, spelling out what is permissible and what is not, as in SL. If you want to upload your clothing, furniture etc to a store in BM you will seek out a place to rent and an owner that has a covenant that you find acceptable, in much the same way as in SL.

7. All creation is created in sandbox mode on your own PC in true WYSIWYG mode. When you are happy with your creation you can then upload it into BM. Many people are currently using OpenSim for the same reason before introducing their creations into SL. It is just a different way of doing things.

8. SL did not run on Macs or Linux machines when they first started. It makes good business sense to go for the OS that represents their biggest market, initially, then expand when you know that your business model is sound.

For balance, here are some of the stated advantages of BM over SL:

SL has prim limits (BM does not),
SL plans to introduce script limits (BM does not),
SL has lag (BM does not),
SL has a 'draw distance' and times for waiting for textures to 'rezz' (BM does not. You can see all the way to the horizon, instantly),
SL freezes up when you try getting 40 or more avatars into a region, (in BM you can have as many as you like [and are willing to pay for]),
SL groans under 70,000 concurrency (BM can handle 7 million easily).

The emphasis on negativity here, while failing to mention any of the great advantages that BM will have over SL does nothing for a reasoned discussion on the merits/demerits of the two Virtual Worlds.

BM is not a replacement for SL, it is quite different, and will have its afficionadoes as SL will continue to have.

I will be beta testing BM and reporting back on what I find, including if anything does not live up to the stated claims, in as fair and balanced a way as I can.

Maybe then would be a good time to list the advantages/disadvantages of the two worlds side by side, once the facts are known.

Rock
Briana Dawson
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04-20-2009 04:25
From: Rock Vacirca

A very disingenuous take, if I may say so, and full of errors (some deliberate).


No. I posted what i read on different sites.

I have no reason to be deliberately disingenuous about a virtual world I care not about and cannot develop for.

No one was trying to be disingenuous, especially not deliberately.

People can find out the same things i have seen posted elsewhere on the net.

My sources may be misleading since this virtual world is still in beta, but that does not make anything deliberate, it makes it A MISTAKE.

If anything, your reply is freaking dreamy. "7 million concurrent users 'easy'" - but yet it is in beta so they really do not know, do they?

Whatever, if anyone is deliberately posting B.S., its you.
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Briana Dawson
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04-20-2009 04:33
The site i read specifically said: NO FLYING or special locomotion in general and that each region can create special means - primarily vehicles to move around in.

Teleporting the site said was also nixed because BM felt it had a negative effect on the social fabric.

There are LOTs of places to read about BM, ROCK, so you are not the authority.

I even posted a link to your stupid site so people could learn more on their own.

I am posting links to what i am reading and have posted what i have read from the links i have gotten in this thread or posted in this thread.

I posted the NEGATIVES because i was specifically comparing it to SL, if that was not obvious to you.

Sorry, I am not on the BM bandwagon just yet - i like to wait for the ware before i start singing its praises.
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Naiman Broome
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04-20-2009 04:39
From: Rock Vacirca
A disingenuous take, if I may say so.


For balance, here are some of the stated advantages of BM over SL:

SL has prim limits (BM does not),
SL plans to introduce script limits (BM does not),
SL has lag (BM does not),
SL has a 'draw distance' and times for waiting for textures to 'rezz' (BM does not. You can see all the way to the horizon, instantly),
SL freezes up when you try getting 40 or more avatars into a region, (in BM you can have as many as you like [and are willing to pay for]),
SL groans under 70,000 concurrency (BM can handle 7 million easily).


I am really excited to test the beta if I can .....

tough the main limits of what you posted there is becouse SL allows inworld building tools as it was originally planned to be , allowing everyone to move stuff or shape their world around directly inside the game ..... the problem is that this lead to many non professional users , or just not aware of graphics game design laws to make stuff that simply is not optimized , thus using loads of high res textures etc , if all developers in BM start to introduce in the game overpolygonal stuff , no optimized textures etc then it will lag too ...SL wouldn't havelag if all people observed the rules to make optimized stuff , but is also true that the SL game is not optimized for that and the textures don't scale from distance etc....
Briana Dawson
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04-20-2009 04:40
From the first link i posted:
----------------------------------
Oh, you won’t be able to fly for the most part.

Won’t be able to fly!?

If a developer wants it, their avatars will be able to fly, but the standard locomotion is not flying. You can get into a vehicle and fly but the framework for people to locomote isn’t flying.
----------------------------------

So each developer would have to introduce the animations and fiddle with the physics? What about teleporting?

Teleporting is a balancing act for us. Teleportation to any place at any time is a mistake for a developer. It reduces the potential for the social fabric of a place. You don’t want to make people walk everywhere though. If I want to get from point A to B there are several options beyond walking or running. If I need to move two kilometers away, it is silly to have to wait for a bus. If you have a home, you will be able get there. People will experiment with a lot of different methods.
---------------------------------

SO ACCORDING TO: http://npirl.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-answers-and-more-questions.html - NO FLYING (Or generally, no flying except for special regions that want to allow it but default = no way to locomote as the article says) and NO TELEPORT.

Although Rock, you make a different claim than the people on the site posted above.

I wonder who is right? For some reason, I am thinking it is not you.
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Naiman Broome
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04-20-2009 04:44
I hope for two things mainly , that the prices for services will be low and affordable and that the game will allow a deep possibility to modification like SL .... ths will truly allow the whole spectrum of variance that we can see in SL , tough There should be a sort of quality control to not have the same anarchy that rules some places of SL with totally discordant architecrure styles one close to the other....
Naiman Broome
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04-20-2009 04:47
From: Briana Dawson
From website in the OP:

How is Blue Mars different from Second Life?

Blue Mars offers an experience unlike any other virtual world. Our high end graphics, massive concurrent user support, system wide participation based rewards program, support for industry standard content creation tools, next generation NPC intelligence, simple LUA scripting support, and breathtakingly realistic Avatars are just a few of the compelling features that set us apart from the competition.
---------------------------------------

That place sounds boring.

Like i said before..It will be a big doll house for Renderosity, TurboSquid, and Daz3d people.

One big expensive controlled content doll house.

Blue Mars is like a content buffet in Aspen as opposed to a buffet in Vegas/SL.




I dont think its like so , I just peeked onthe crysis modding portal and I saw that someone made an importer exporter tool for the crytec engine that works with sketchup , the free modeling tool from google if I am not wrong , so its very possible to have all forms of importers and exporters that will allow eveyone to be able to create , just not with prims but wiith more 3d oriented programs ..... Something that most people already do ....
Briana Dawson
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Posts: 5,855
04-20-2009 05:29
From: Naiman Broome
...just not with prims but wiith more 3d oriented programs ..... Something that most people already do ....

You mean like most professional content creators like at Renderocity, Turbosquid, Daz3d...
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Briana Dawson
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04-20-2009 05:33
From: Naiman Broome
I hope for two things mainly , that the prices for services will be low and affordable and that the game will allow a deep possibility to modification like SL .... ths will truly allow the whole spectrum of variance that we can see in SL , tough There should be a sort of quality control to not have the same anarchy that rules some places of SL with totally discordant architecrure styles one close to the other....


Well there will not be discordant architecture issues with builds being too close unless the Region/City you are in made it that way. Blue Mars is not a contiguous environment like SL - the Regions are separate from the rest of the world and to go between them requires "loading", so there may be bad builds but it will not be a sprawling mainland of horror.

I would like to know what the prices will be and how the content is hosted. They will be pricing according to Region Capacity - so if you want 1000 avatars in your region you will be paying some special tier for that.

How do they store the content?
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Argent Stonecutter
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04-20-2009 07:25
From: Rock Vacirca

sex WILL be permitted, in much the same way as SL is proposing right now, ie. between two consenting adults in their home in BM there will be no restrictions.
How about three, four, five, or six consenting adults?

From: someone
6. City owners (developers) will be renting residential and commercial space as they do in SL. They will have covenants, as they do in SL, spelling out what is permissible and what is not, as in SL. If you want to upload your clothing, furniture etc to a store in BM you will seek out a place to rent and an owner that has a covenant that you find acceptable, in much the same way as in SL.
You don't have to have a store in SL, you don't need to find a store owner, you don't need to even sell anything if you're making content for yourself.

From: someone
7. All creation is created in sandbox mode on your own PC in true WYSIWYG mode. When you are happy with your creation you can then upload it into BM. Many people are currently using OpenSim for the same reason before introducing their creations into SL. It is just a different way of doing things.
And many people are wanting direct sculpt editing in SL because sculpts turn building from a social and cooperative activity to a solitary one. Having all building happening outside the social environment will put off a LOT of developers, even ones who don't yet realize what they'll be missing.



From: someone
SL has prim limits (BM does not),
Then BM has other restrictions to perform the same function.

From: someone
SL plans to introduce script limits (BM does not),
Either they will have to implement limits or they will have to restrict scripting to city owners. Especially if they're using an off-the-shelf VM like Lua.
From: someone
SL has lag (BM does not),
An OpenSim sandbox has no lag either. :(

From: someone
SL has a 'draw distance' and times for waiting for textures to 'rezz' (BM does not. You can see all the way to the horizon, instantly),
So in BM you will either have to predownload the region or wait ten minutes on region crossings?

From: someone
SL freezes up when you try getting 40 or more avatars into a region, (in BM you can have as many as you like [and are willing to pay for]),
Yeh, that's what my cellphone service says about text messages.

From: someone
SL groans under 70,000 concurrency (BM can handle 7 million easily).
Until BM *has* 7 million, you can't say that.
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Milla Janick
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Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
04-20-2009 07:36
From: Rock Vacirca
For balance, here are some of the stated advantages of BM over SL:

SL has lag (BM does not),
SL has a 'draw distance' and times for waiting for textures to 'rezz' (BM does not. You can see all the way to the horizon, instantly),
SL groans under 70,000 concurrency (BM can handle 7 million easily).

...and it's made of candy!
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Jesse Barnett
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04-20-2009 07:47
From: Argent Stonecutter
Either they will have to implement limits or they will have to restrict scripting to city owners. Especially if they're using an off-the-shelf VM like Lua.
Scripting is reserved for owners
From: Argent Stonecutter
And many people are wanting direct sculpt editing in SL because sculpts turn building from a social and cooperative activity to a solitary one. Having all building happening outside the social environment will put off a LOT of developers, even ones who don't yet realize what they'll be missing.

With the exception of prims, the majority of content creation in SL is already done outside. PS, 3ds Max, various sculpty programs, Poser, Gimp, Scite, LSLEditor and many, many more. Just ask any clothing designer how many hours they spend in PS as opposed to SL.
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From: someone
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Doodles Ordinary
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04-20-2009 07:47
From: Milla Janick
...and it's made of candy!


and it was programmed by Willy Wonka.
Alexander Harbrough
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04-20-2009 07:49
From: Doodles Ordinary
and it was programmed by Willy Wonka.


I want an oompa loompa!
Brenda Connolly
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04-20-2009 07:50
From: Milla Janick
+1.

Don't care.


+2. I can't see spending the money on an SL ready computer, let alone one that would be needed for that. Besides, I really don't want a single themed place to play in anyway.
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Brenda Connolly
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04-20-2009 07:50
From: Alexander Harbrough
I want an oompa loompa!


You get nothing! Good day Sir!!!
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Alexander Harbrough
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04-20-2009 07:57
From: Brenda Connolly
You get nothing! Good day Sir!!!


Don't I at least get an oompa loompa song???
Brenda Connolly
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04-20-2009 07:58
From: Alexander Harbrough
Don't I at least get an oompa loompa song???


I said....GOOD DAY SIR!!!!!!
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Doodles Ordinary
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04-20-2009 08:00
From: Brenda Connolly
I said....GOOD DAY SIR!!!!!!


You do him better than that Johnny Depp fella.
Brenda Connolly
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04-20-2009 08:02
From: Doodles Ordinary
You do him better than that Johnny Depp fella.


My Dog does him better than Johnny Depp did.


*I love Johnny Depp, just not in that movie.
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Alexander Harbrough
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04-20-2009 08:04
From: Doodles Ordinary
You do him better than that Johnny Depp fella.


THe Gene WIlder version was better. Depp's version was more about Wonka (it has been a long time since I read the books, but I don't remember all that emphasis on Wonka's background).

Getting back on topic, this discussion sounds a lot like similar discussions in EQ any time a new competitor has been in the works. The usual posts from dissatisfied current customers wanting the new product to be better, the posts from those looking on the new product with healthy skepticism, and the truth somewhere in between....
Doodles Ordinary
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04-20-2009 08:08
From: Alexander Harbrough


...and the truth somewhere in between....


so it wont all be candy?
Alexander Harbrough
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04-20-2009 08:18
From: Doodles Ordinary
so it wont all be candy?


Nope, some of it will be cake! :)
Brenda Connolly
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04-20-2009 08:18
From: Alexander Harbrough
Nope, some of it will be cake! :)


With Blue Icing.
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