Blue Mars beta

I actually like watching people build.

So? That doesn't mean that I'm wrong, that just means we're different people. I'm not arguing that you should not be able to build your way, I'm arguing that I should be able to build my way. Actually, I'm arguing that everyone who wants to should be able to. Let's go back to your previous comment:
Because my building and scripting needs are "everyone in-world must be allowed to build and script". Not necessarily *everywhere*, but at least *somewhere*, and somewhere they can *share* the products of their work, and IF they like to work that way the *process* of their work as well.

Just like in the real world.

Because that's what makes Second Life a world, not a theme park.
You have to option of restricting build to group, or setting autoreturn. Second Life provides you the tools to manage your land the way you want, why not take advantage of them?

All my land is world-buildable, with autoreturn set between an hour and six hours depending on how cluttered it gets... my store's got an hour autoreturn because some people rez the stuff they buy. most of the build has a longer autoreturn because people do less building there so I can afford to leave things around longer.

Edit: I have occasionally (maybe a dozen times in the past three and a half years) gotten a furious IM from someone because they "had to" return something of mine. Almost invariably it's a vehicle I've been kicked off of on a region crossing and it went flying off and I wasn't able to find it. Occasionally it's something I rezzed for an event, like a dance ball because the dance ball there was full, and I wasn't able to pick it up because of network or computer problems. I am always polite, and ask where it was so that I know where to be more-than-scrupulous... but I can never understand it. If they don't want clutter, they have the tools to prevent it, why get upset about it? I'm quite unable to comprehend this attitude.

So long as one person says they prefer to work online, that's enough for me. Because my building and scripting needs are "everyone in-world must be allowed to build and script", at least somewhere.

I agree, that is why I picked you up on yours.


No need for personal abuse.

Let me ask you three direct questions, and try to answer them directly instead of going off at a tangent:

a) 'Probably no sex' Where did you get the information to conclude the use of the word 'probably' was justified?

b) Was the insertion of the word 'probably' accidental, or deliberate?


c) Do you still stand by your statements that there is 'No flying' and 'No teleporting' in BM?

Rock

Just a minor point about statelessness. It's funny to see how you got the web and http mixed up. Even with http, it is not necessarily stateless. Http is simply a stateless protocol. It is merely how the handshake is done. You can absolutely communicate with states using http by using "cookies." That's why you have to enable the cookies to maintain the state if you want to keep logged in. The state is maintained by the client's cookies as well as the server's software rather than the protocol. That is the difference.

Furthermore, you can use other stateful protocols such as FTP and telnet over the web, even using your web browser. That is why the web, nor the server has nothing to do with statelessness. Stateless communication merely allows time-sharing the ports, and prevents it from hogging up a port until logout out. It absolutely has nothing to do with the web, the server or Virtual world. It's nothing more than the handshaking protocol.

Again, funny to see how you misunderstand statefulness. If what you think http is so stateless, then the http communication within SL Viewer's in-world web browser would totally obviate the Virtual World if it is stateless

Did you forget SL's Viewer also run YouTube too. Does it make SL stateless

Dont you smart ass computer boffins argue a lot

Because those tools do not work well with residential sims. I do not want to inhibit my tenants from a certain amount of customization of their homes, but using groups to manage that is tiresome, as my tenants have friends visit or stay, or their partners (which with some tenants frequently change!) and they want them to have the same rights too. I was forever adding and subtracting avatars from the Group, so in the end I gave up and removed the restrictions.

Rock

I didn't get anything mixed up. There are multiple levels involved here. HTTP is a stateless transaction (and many sites take advantage of that by distributing requests over multiple servers... and I've written programs to support that). Above that, a "stateful" session may or may not have any dynamic state... when you make multiple sequential requests to Youtube, for example, there is no dynamic state: the server doesn't need to maintain an active process for each session, it just needs to retain the association between an IP address and a login ID, and that association doesn't even need to be maintained on the server, a cookie in the client does the trick. The next level is shared state. Then there's dynamic shared state. Dynamic shared state is computationally expensive, and that's the kind of state that Second Life requires. The only state Youtube needs is a single non-shared non-synchronized stream that can be discarded when the client's buffer is full... and subsequent streams can be served from separate servers. Compared to Second Life, that's effectively stateless.

So you choose not to use the tools provided because it's "tiresome".

Of course you could do what the owner of the residential sim I'm in has done... which is to deed the land I'm occupying to a group I own, and let me worry about what the permissions are and who's in the group. That's another option the tools provide you, that you haven't taken advantage of.
Well don't worry. In Blue Mars you won't need to do any of that because none of your tenants and their friends will be able to build at all.

Hey, wait a second, why don't you just turn build off completely? That'll give your tenants the Blue Mars experience in Second Life.

Wow your rude attitude in a casual information thread is uncalled for.

When they say that in general there is no nudity and that regions have control over what an avatar wears and that sex is undecided, i come to the conclusion of "probably no sex" - not to mention I know my own beta tester who told me the same thing, so you are not the authority, just another voice and opinion, like mine and others.

The website i quoted says this (http://npirl.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-answers-and-more-questions.html?):

=======
Won’t be able to fly!?

If a developer wants it, their avatars will be able to fly, but the standard locomotion is not flying. You can get into a vehicle and fly but the framework for people to locomote isn’t flying.
=======

"The framework for people to locomote isn't flying." - I posted the link, anyone could have read that and come to the same conclusion. They did in that thread on SLU, and you are not there talking this nonsense.

Teleporting: Again, the link i posted says:

========
So each developer would have to introduce the animations and fiddle with the physics? What about teleporting?

Teleporting is a balancing act for us. Teleportation to any place at any time is a mistake for a developer. It reduces the potential for the social fabric of a place. You don’t want to make people walk everywhere though. If I want to get from point A to B there are several options beyond walking or running. If I need to move two kilometers away, it is silly to have to wait for a bus. If you have a home, you will be able get there. People will experiment with a lot of different methods.
========

Quite easy to conclude that teleporting is not there since nowhere are they directly saying "Yes, you can teleport", but instead saying that to allow Teleporting (like we do in SL) is a mistake for a developer.

Is teleporting available? I still do not think so. Perhaps there will be some teleport like option inside regions the same way we have teleport objects to move around within a sim.
So i just may be dead out wrong on teleporting and wrong in my assessment that it is not possible.

And whether or not i used the word "probably" accidentally, or deliberately is irrelevant, my intention was to relay my thoughts, the words used are the words that came to mind - period. So, save your weird "Forum Lawyer" style questions for another venue.

I doubt that the poll is going to tell us much. Some will prefer to script inside SL because it means they can quickly test their scripts. Yet others will prefer to script offline so then they can focus. Unfortunately we can't have it both ways in SL.

If you had added the option - "I'd prefer to script offline if I could test my scripts" then it may have been a popular option.


The Blue Mars SDK will give people the ability to script offline AND test their scripts.

But do they like having you watch?

Um, sure we can. You can edit a script offline, modify it in-world, edit it more off-line, no problem.
You can do that as well, using OpenSim, if you want to go to the trouble.

Never had a complaint yet

If they don't they can always rez a skybox.

I sometimes find that I have more privacy on the ground. Being in a skybox just makes people curious.

The more walls there are, the more curious people are. Maybe the Pentagon could learn from this. They should move their offices to a nearby Mcdonalds.

Yes. Having tenants frequently complain that something their friend built or rezzed for them was returned, and having to spend so much time adding all their friends, taking them off when they fell out, is tiresome. So, although clearing up the litter of others is also tiresome, it is less tiresome.

But this argument is not a valid one. If someone kept dumping rubbish on your front garden, and a neighbor said all you had to do was to build a wall around your garden high enough to prevent rubbish being dumped onto it, is that reasonable? Or should it be the case that others should not use YOUR property as THEY like?


Sorry Argent, but you do keep making assumptions that are not correct. All my sims use SkyHomes, as I create beautiful landscaped beaches for all their common use. Deeding a parcel to a group the tenant owns does not stop their erstwhile friends from creating eyesores on the beach, which they have, several times, in my experience.


I am not worrying, I think that building offline is a real plus. I also think that preventing people from uploading builds onto someone else's land is also a benefit. Just do a search of these forums, and you will see many people complaining about eyesores that people have created, and because the land owner is away there is nothing anyone can do about it. That will not be a problem in BM.[/QUOTE]



No it won't. Tenants in Blue Mars can build (how many more times?), in the free SDK, and have the owner upload it for them or grant them the right to upload it.

Rock

Nonsense link.

So let the renters control the group membership.
No, because that's a bogus analogy. Setting autoreturn doesn't involve building a wall around your garden. It doesn't involve building ANYTHING. It doesn't have any real-life analogy until we get smart dust tags we can apply to our own objects so that they're left in place when the household nanobots digest the trash overnight.

And on top of that, you're cheering Blue Mars on for making that wall exist by default!
You mean like in Blue Mars, where you don't have the option of not building what you call a wall around your property, because all property will have one permanently in place.


At the absolute worst you won't be any worse off than you are now, except that you'd only have to deal with the builds by tenants and their friends instead of by any random stranger.
That's a benefit you have in SL, right now. You just choose not to use it.
Because BM will not let you manage your land the way you manage it in SL.
And their friends? Can their friends do it as well? No? Then you're back where you started, if it's OK for BM to prevent your tenant's friends from building, then why can't you choose to impose the same restrictions in SL?

I'll tell you why not. Because your tenants and their friends find the fact that anyone can build and script in SL valuable. You won't have those tenants to worry about in Blue Mars, because they won't be there.

I believe it was a nearby pizza delivery place you're thinking of.

But I think this is a common theme in many new virtual worlds, not just BM. The problem is that SL has shown that, de facto, a hierarchy inevitably develops anyway - just as a result of talent, level of interest, social effects, and different qualities of learning experience. Given that, there isn't a lot of point in putting huge effort and tradeoffs into trying to design the platform to avoid it.

Of the 120+ tenants I have at any given time, most of them don't build anything. Some can barely rotate an object. I think that your perceived value of the ability to build is overstated by your own biases.

I'm sorry, is your name Rock?

Rock says that he has problems with his tenants and their friends building and not cleaning up after themselves. Since your tenants don't build, obviously you don't have that problem.

Clearly, but you are being intentionally obtuse if you think that the majority of people in SL really care about the ability to build. It's not 2003 or 2004. The uses of SL have become a lot more "pedestrian," for lack of a better word. So the perceived value about the power to build among the populace is probably overstated because of your biases. For most people it's a nicety, but bring on the shoes or whatever it is that they're into.

I never said that.