The truth about Shapes

OK guys, I've gotten curious.

People can buy things for their avs - eyes, skins, hair, clothes...and shapes. We know the avs and clothes (etc) are specially-made. Somebody used a third-party software program to create and texture them, and then these were imported into 2L ("2L" is NOT a trademark, so ha!) to be sold. They are unique, too - if you were to buy a $L2000 skin from somebody, you know full well you're getting something special (i.e., you know that no amount of toying with the sliders is going to make a newbie look like the skin you've bought). Same with the eyes or clothes - when you buy an Armani shirt in 2L, you know that you can't create something identical by editing your appearance, creating a "new shirt", and working the sliders.

All well and good.

But, what about shapes?

I'll admit, I've bought shapes. But I've been doing a lot of looking lately, and what I've seen suggests to me that, no matter what the shape you've bought looks like, it will never be - CAN never be - anything that you can't create yourself by using the body shape sliders. In essence, shapes are NOT unique. When you buy a shape from somebody, you're essentially paying them for something you can do in 5 minutes' time.

I'm hoping that's not true - I'd rather it wasn't, for a couple of reasons. But, guys - lay it on me. Is it true?

If so, what's the point of buying shapes? I understand that people who sell whole avatars (especially unusually-shaped ones) include shapes for convenience' sake, so that as soon as you buy an avatar you can just drop it on yourself instantly, without any fuss. But, what of people who sell JUST shapes, in and of themselves? What of people who charge a couple-hundred Lindens for their shapes? Isn't that kind of predatory, if they misrepresent their product as something truly unique (or conveniently "leave out" the fact that their shape is nothing special)? Is it ethical to take advantage of people who DON'T know that what they can do with their sliders is all they've got? I have a feeling most people who buy or have bought shapes (like myself, at that time) belong to this class.

I'm not talking about any specific merchants here, I'm just talking in general.

Thoughts?

some folks just do not have the eye for creating shapes no matter how much they play with the sliders

I have been fiddling with shapes since starting SL and only recently felt they were good enough to try to sell. (and they do sell)

each time I do a skin I try to make a shape to go with it in petite and bbw sizes

I've never understood why anyone would buy a shape. I can fully understand a skin seller selling a shape to go with a skin, because facial shaping makes a big difference to how a skin looks, but buying a seperate shape? Why?

You are certainly correct in the fact that the shapes are made exclusively with the sliders. However, people who make shapes, just like any other part of an avatar (and I refer to GOOD shapes and skins, not just "thrown together" ones) have an eye for the human/animal, what have you, shape. I have seen very few really good shapes in SL. Many of them were purchased, but were the giant boob/rear, no fat variety which makes the avatar look like a skeleton with strategically placed balloons. Really nice shapes take a lot of fine tuning of the sliders, and a strong knowledge/eye for anatomy. Yes, a newb can make a fabulous shape, but it isn't very likely right off the bat. As someone who has been in world for over a year (not as long as some but longer than others), I can make clothing and texture it, build buildings and so forth, but when it comes to my shape, I have only just begun to get the hang of making a decent looking shape. So, for my part, I think real shape makers are just as skilled, as any other maker of quality avatar parts and accessories.

I don't know, I'm always loath to criticize someone who creates something other people want.

Saying that a shape can be created by just setting slider settings is true, but couldn't we say the same thing about an object created with prims? After all, if you simply know the prim settings and displacements, you would be able to make it for yourself.

I know, I know, reductio ad absurdum is a logical fallacy, but if we indulge ourselves in it, perhaps we could ask why people pay good money for oil paintings when one can simply trot down to the art store and pick up a bit of canvas and paint for much less

You could say that, as long as you don't add textures to the prims. Textures make or break objects, just as they do for skins. But shapes don't have textures - they are 100% slider vlaues.

Took me longer than 5 minutes to do my shape.

People buy shapes and make them for sale for precisely the same reason that people pay sculptors to make things for them out of clay. Technically, anyone can take a lump of clay and push it and prod it until it forms a shape they desire. But what an artistically talented individual can produce in minutes might well be something that a less-skilled individual might never achieve in their lifetime. With shapes in SL, you can certainly argue that "anyone could do it" by pushing sliders around. But the simple fact is that not everyone has the artistic talent to use those sliders to make something that is pleasing to the eye and well-proportioned.

If you have the knack for making great shapes in minutes, then be glad, and save yourself the money. If you couldn't sculpt a smiley face to save your life, then pay someone who can.

time sink not every one has the patience for

have bought a couple of shapes aswell, but never used them and kept tweaking my 1 year old nubster shape

When I was new, I played with the sliders and played with the sliders and played with the sliders and... went to a shop and purchased a shape from someone with a clue.

Not everyone has the patience or the eye for such things.

Time/Effort = Money

I enjoy all the tweaking to get a shape just right. Some people don't enjoy it as much. It saves them the aggravation, so to them it's money well spent.

Why buy a sandwich when you can obviously make one at home, for far less? Same thing.

I just listed the two shapes I made for the latest skin... if anyone would like to have a look, I do welcome comments, thanks

/195/ff/252908/1.html#post1947828

And textures are 100% pixel colour values, yet it doesn't mean everyone and their mother has knack for doing them Shapes are quite the same -- while it's 'just dragging the sliders' surprisingly few people seem to be capable of dragging them in way that in the end reasonably resembles regular human being.

I have bought a few shapes over time. Recently the skin I use on my main had a shape with it that made it look like the picture. I got it and am glad I did.

If people will buy it.. no reason for people not to sell it. Some people go through lots more then 5 mins to make a shape. You can tell quality from a quick slider job.

I don't mind paying a reasonable price for a shape. I can always think of it as paying someone for their labor (the work of getting all the sliders just so) - something I could do myself, but chose not to. I've frequently been happier with bought shapes than my own.

(And I don't think many shape sellers are trying to hide the fact that everyone has access to the tools needed to make their own. I've never gotten that impression from one.)

What I do mind a bit are shapes with exorbitant prices. Okay, it looks good, but not 800 linden dollars good.

And no-modify shapes! What do you mean I can't make myself an inch shorter or take a little off the tush or make my lips look better with this skin? Or even tell the nice hair designer my head size? I suppose I could ask the shape designer - but then I have to wait and hope - and at some point they're going to get tired of me pestering them.

I know designers make no-mod shapes because everyone has access to the design tools and could duplicate the shape and sell it as their own. But in this case I think the value to the customer of being able to modify trumps the designer's desire for non-disclosure. They have a right to sell their work with the permissions they choose, and I have the right to buy or not buy.

Nic

Oh - and one that really bugged me. I paid a pretty hefty price for a shape because I really, really liked the proportions. What I couldn't tell from the poster was that the shape was HUGE! Sure, she looked great - but nothing fit! And the shape was mod, but I forgot to take a copy before messing around (this was early days for me in SL) and I turned her into a pinhead. (I wonder if it's worth dropping a notecard on the designer asking the head size. I swear, that was the only thing I changed... but it's been most of a year, so I dunno.)

I LOVE how many of the good shape designers have gone to offering shape demos - no-mod with huge hands and feet - so you can get an idea whether a shape is really right for you before you pony up the cash.

Texturing is cheap and quick. also there is NO WAY to protect any texture anytime soon, so why pay for it?
Inaccurate buildings, and ive seen tons of them, are cheaper still.
Making shapes is even cheaper and quicker, selling them is a scam.

Accurate buildings, that use the grid AND correctly scaled texturs on all faces, are tricky and an artform.
Scripting is the only artform worth paying for, but wait, so far almost all scrpts ive seen are coded so poorly and inefficient waste of ressources, they make me cry, and any gun that pops up with a script error makes me giggle, and thats most of them.

I make shapes and specialise in plus sized ones. I've had people tell me that they have spent ages trying to create that look and find it hard to get right - I like messing with sliders and creating unique looks and if someone is prepared to pay me for that - why not?

so that is what they do to deter people from using them LOL
never thought of huge hands and feet and no mod, would make them pretty useless LOL

Dunno.

You know what they say about an Avatar with big feet...

Yup...amnyone can adjust the sliders.......just like anyone can apply a texture or make a box and start building.....but some folks are just better at certain things then others.

I make shapes because I was fed up with the Jessica Rabbit look and the few times I tried to buy a shape....it was as someone stated....HUGE. lol

So.....being an artist with a particular love for sculpture....I started working on my own shapes and eventually opened a shapes store. I sell cheap.....because I know this is one of those common areas where many folks would rather make their own then buy. I also make them copy/mod because no matter how much we like to buy.....we still want to be individuals and create our own look.

I enjoy making shapes....I love the challenge of faces especially and I've done a lot of custom work. Part of getting an avatar to look like someone real is to find all the right elements that will work together. If I am asked to do a celebrity....I will first go on a skin search to find a skin I think most closely matches the coloring of that person. Then I grab the demo and use it while I'm creating the shape so I can be sure the features and skin will mesh the way I want. Last I do eyes & hair.....I make eyes so that's pretty easy. Then I go out and find exactly the right hair style to make the look complete.

Part of customizing a look is having an eye for what the finished avatar will look like when all the pieces parts are put together. Some folks are good at it....some are not. It's like any other artistic vision....we all have different abilites and SL allows us to really tap into what we're good at. I love love the challenge of duplicating a look.....and usually when I am bored I will create a project for myself of duplicating the look of someone I know or a celebrity.....whom ever.

Also...as an aside....I noticed just last night for some reason when I logged in.....my current shape looked a heck of a lot bulkier than I had created her. This was really puzzling so I took a snapshot and compared it to older snapshots I had taken of her.....and sure enough......it did indeed look different. Not wildly different, but quite obviously bulkier and fatter in the face. I know folks have mentioned odd shape quirks similar to this......and I can't fathom what would cause that, but it IS some kind of weird bug in the viewer I think. *shrug*

I remember when I first joined...I thought you had to have some special software for making shapes...well a few expensive purchases later, I found out that this was not the case. While it is only a matter of using the sliders etc... one does have to have a certain 'eye' for proportion etc. I'm just at the stage now where I'm confident of putting the few shapes I've made out for sale.... The ones I have put up .... I spent a great deal of time with...tweaking etc. I tend to go for the 'shorter' heights....more realistic. I try a shape with dozens of different high-end skins to see how the look changes, the skins make such a difference and of course vica-versa....and if the appearance still looks high-end through all the different skins, then I put it up for sale. And I make them mod/copy... since there are always little things here and there that people like to change...

I do agree with the fact that a lot of people tend to charge outrageous prices for shapes... I bought a rather expensive one because it looked great in the pic....but Oh my Lord!!! It was just awful when I wore it... the arms..way too long....just no proportion...definitely didn't look anything like the picture....

on the selling part tho

i tried to sell my shape copy/mod for something like $295 just ffs, gave it a month and didn`t sell a thing lol
so what ever you shape makers do to sell, good job

That they trip a lot?

Not Unique?

There are some 50 sliders that affect what we define as the "face".. that's 50 sliders.. each slider had a number from 0-100. That's 100^50 possible combinations on the face ALONE. That doesn't count changes to the body, eyebrows, etc.

While it's true that any combination of sliders COULD be reproduced.. the fact is that you'd be ABOUT as likely to get a Television mini-series script adaptation of Hamlet out of a billion monkeys with typewriters, hitting keys randomly.

The fact is, that like anything artistic, there's a lot of ways to make shapes that don't look good, and a much smaller pool of "good" looking shapes. Faces in particular are finnicky and many of us spend MONTHS retouching and revisiting our eye shapes, and noses. As has been said before, a lot of people don't have the time, or perhaps the artistic ability, to perfectly sculpt an avatar. But just because you're not an artist, doesn't mean you don't want to look good.

The biggest complaint I have about commercial shapes, is that they are often sold as no-mod.. Of course this is because those same slider settings can be noted down, replicated, and someone else can sell your shape.. but nearly every "bought" shape I've ever gotten, I wanted to tweak it.

For the record.. doing a good shape is NOT a 5 minute jobb. It is if you don't care what you look like, if you have little to nothing invested in your appearance, if your avatar is merely a throwaway alt.. But after a year and a half, the face, the body, has to LOOK like "your Avatar"... and that can mean hours and hours of work to make it look just so.

I spent 45 minutes today, changing my face. I'm not sure I'll keep the new one (on the right).. it still needs some work.

the thing about sliders for shapes is that people don't realise you have to keep going back and forth to sliders you've already moved, adjust the body, fine, then adjust arms and legs, go back to body readjust, go back to arms and legs tweak, adjust neck, readjust body, tweak arms and legs. And the there is the face, wash rinse repeat…

I spent 2 hours on mine when i first started, been happy since.