Underage

Well I had a good scare last night... I was dancing with some friends on the beach at Rasta, minding my own business when this beautiful (adult avi) china doll showed up and began the 1000 questions routine. Well we (some of the greeters and myself) took her on a tour of the island. In the ongoing conversation she (no names here) mentioned that she was 17 years old. I asked if that is considered adult age in her country (Malaysia), she said no. we then suggested that this sim is a 'mature' sim, and to please come back when she reached 18. Not a problem...she left for a bit, I went back to my bungalow to continue furnishing and decorating it when she IMed me. She then popped into my flat (with the doors locked) and hung around, and hung around... popping in and out of the locked door to prove she is a lock pick. Then she went upstairs to my Jacuzzi and stood in the middle of it drinking an alcoholic beverage, repeatedly falling down while her avi stated (away)...One of my close friends came on line and I asked her to come over and help me (needed a witness) as I did not want to be alone in my house with a minor. My friend and I were waiting for the girl to leave, so we made like we wanted some privacy (for you know what) and the girl left the flat, but kept hanging around outside just within earshot and peeking distance. The Island manager finally logged on and we got her to talk to the girl. She explained that as a minor she was limited to the PG sims and to come back in a year. The girl finally left, and our island manager put her in the ban list real fast. We were very polite and kind to her, but careful to not say or do anything that would be considered contributing to the delinquency of a minor. I was not sure what her real age was, or if she was just RPing, but she consistently said to everyone there that she were 17. So we all took her at her word, and responded accordingly. So, did we do the right thing? I really hope so.

That is a truly terrible idea, given the way LL "verifies" age at this time. LL doesn't have a way to prove that someone is underage. The closest thing they can do is say "Prove your age to us or else you can't log in anymore" and demand that you SCAN you DRIVERS LICENSE and paste it into the support ticket system. Now, if a person doesn't do that, and never logs into SL ever again... does that prove they are underage, or does it simply mean they don't feel comfortable uploading a scan of a sensitive document? Do you feel you deserve a reward in the latter case?

In general you sound like you acted with a great deal of patience in this matter. You didn't report her, but that's up to you. You were right to protect yourself, getting a witness, etc.The two sentences i quote above show a error. < 18, regardless of country of origin, are not allowed anywhere on the main grid. Not even PG sims.

Could you clarify this statement? it isn't very clear to me what you are trying to say...thanks!

No one under the age of 18 is allowed in the Main Grid. People ages 13-17 are allowed on the Teen Grid. It doesn't matter what country the person is from, or what the age of majority is, there. Its 18 no matter what. And, the PG/Mature label on regions is a guideline to help the adult users of the Main Grid know what to expect in those regions. If xxx stuff offends you, stick to PG regions. It has nothing to do with "Parental Guidance" as the name suggests, simply because under-18 users are not allowed on the Main Grid. period. Feel free to ask for clarification if it is still not quite clear.

This was certainly a good way to handle it. Not the only good way, but good nevertheless.

The one question I'd ask when confused about age is "Do you mean 17 in RL, or just in roleplay?" There's no point in making assumptions about the answer, or trying to discern it on your own when a straightforward question can settle the matter.

You're certainly confusing legal majority with emotional maturity. When you said


These are points of maturity that you're raising, not legal majority. We're responsible to govern ourselves as well as our children. And a kidnapping is bad regardless of whether the victim is 16 or 18 or 28.

It seems to bear repeating that Linden's motivation for these rules are based on legal liability. Too many people blow the issue out of proportion here by treating participation on the adult grid as something that's really horrible for a teen the day before turning 18, and perfectly ok afterwards.

Realistic? I've certainly heard of cases of someone being arrested for meeting with a minor in order to have sex, but somehow, they never seem to mention all the other adults in that chat room who interacted without setting up a meeting.

At this point, you're just saying that you're just saying that you believe what you want to believe, without any sound justification, and you're not interested in level-headed discussion. If you're not interested in reason, then I won't be able to change your mind, but at least I can show other people why this is paranoia.

@Graphicguru Gustav
IMO yes, RP or not the environment you were in was not conducive (legally) to someone their age.

just a note: the stupid drinking/falling down thing seems to be a frequent prank to give to newbies, that kicks in when they go afk

Well that she was doing that well enough on her own: and I am actually newer here that she is, I scoured her profile for clues, for her parent's phone number... their email address so I could inform them, but nothing of course. She seems both naive and cognizant at the same time, which smacked of either an intelligent yet immature mind, or an uncanny deceptiveness.

I don't know if person was really underage. I have met people in SL and wondered.
There are teens who are way to eager to be Adults too soon.
I know I was one of those kids when I was teenager.
Often at the time Adults basically justified certain behaviors and name calling because they didn't see me as kid who needed protection.
I often wonder what my life would been like instead of being treated like a slutty grown up teenager but protected what my life would be like.
I hate SL to be like the song, “They only want you when you’re seventeen / When you’re twenty-one / You’re no fun”

Precisely. Which is why when we suspect that someone is underage, we should just keep our big mouths shut and realise it's none of our business.

Oh... i can't believe what i just read at Massively. Perhaps one system is not replacing the other as I expected. Massively: "Aristotle's age verification not good enough for LL?" by Tateru Nino Dec 23rd 2007 @ 8:00AM
http://www.massively.com/2007/12/23/aristotles-age-verification-not-good-enough-for-ll/
All the more reason to follow Conan's advice here.

Until a few weeks ago when I saw a few thread about this absurdity, I had a few lines in my 1st life profile citing the TOS and threatening to report underage residents I would come across. Sadly, I cannot in good conscience turn someone in for except in the most egregious cases, with proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Without a way to appeal and with such poor review and investigation policies, the threat of wrongly punishing the innocent is simply too great. I removed this blanket statement from my profile.

Fascinating. Well, LL is in a quandary on age verification. Given their track record of well-thought-out policy changes (e.g. VAT), actually it would have been a surprise to see a consistent approach in the age matter.

The girl went to the teen grid, she didnt like it and came back the same night, so we talked to a Linden and he cancelled her account. I went to work rl next day and by the time I came back, my friends told me she had come back changing her name just a little, so they talked to this Linden again and the account was cancelled again.
This should be the end of the story, but the fact is that its just the beginning.
I've been getting "visitors" in my home. One left me a doll picture with the conversation I had with her when I told her she needed to go to the teen grid where I said 2 years went fast and that she would be welcomed if she came back after that time.
Last night I had a horrible visit to my house while my kid av (I use her to build kids furniture) was "sleeping/camping" in my bedroom. I have an adult bed, with all the functions deactivated (needs to be reset and never did do that), my kid av was on the bed in one of those cover me pillows that rezzes a blanket over, when I came online this morning the blanket on the bed had been moved and the balls (that never had been rezzed) were visible, so I opened the chat history to see who had come into the house, and what I read there was totally sick, wont tell what it was only that they asked for her, b I can tell you that at my age I blushed and felt my stomach turning. After this visit last night, we had a visitor this afternoon that came, asked a lot of questions and started shooting us (freeze, eject and ban was my inmediate reaction), seeing his profile, I found that he also was romanian. Coincidences? They might be, but I dont believe in too many coincidences happening to the same person.

I'm starting to feel kind of uncomfortable over all this. I've tried to do the right thing, I've tried to protect an underage, but we residents cant do this by ourselves unless we isolate totally becoming our own prisoners.

Thank you all for your comments.

Ummm you seem to forget that the age verification is in Beta.... So they won't be depending on it right now...

Why not keep helping her until the Lindens take responsibillity? It looks like the policy '18 and over only' is not a priority. Under Rumanian law she's considered being older than the age of concent, so there's no real problem here.
Maybe it's because I'm a European that I don't understand what all the fuss is about keeping minors from SL.

No this american doesn't see what the fuss is either....

well i cant really blame someone for being annoyed if you keep 'investigating' them and firing off ARs

I'm in the UK and under no circumstance would I have anything to do with someone who self-declares as under-age online. This is based on the advice I have had from my sister, who has been in the abused-child "business" most of her working life: the atmosphere at present - in RL, not just in SL - is so charged and dangerous - for the ADULT! - that the risk simply isn't worth taking. If an RL 16 year old approached me asking for help, I would give them the numbers of Samaritans and the CAB, and leave it at that.

By your way of thinking there is nothing wrong with a street gang harassing a shop owner who had one of it's members arrested for shop lifting. This person and their friends need to be banned in the most permanent way possible and it sounds like Mili needs to put up her ban lines.

Banlines Mili, they are your friend.

Chris in fact I've been thinking of moving my home, but it seems silly to go pay rent or more tier when I will have all that space in my sim.
Nina, I didnt go after her at all, I tried to protect what it seemed to be a very naïve teenager, being a mother of a not long ago teenager, I thought I would like somebody to do the same for my rl daughter if she ever did something like this. Teens dont belong in the adult grid, the sexual content is too high for them to digest. I'm not being a prude, I know many teenagers are involved in sexual relationships, but I've seen things in the grid that are hard to swallow for many people. Why not try to keep them away from this until they reached certain age that might not warrantee they're mature but at least that they are a bit more close to that maturity?
I'm glad there was a Linden that got involved in this and helped out, as it was difficult at first to get their atention.

As for age verification, it is as easy to lie there as it has been for teens to come in the adult grid. What will prevent this girl to give her mother's documents again to get verified?
And some adults (like me) cant verify because of the country they're in. They're not just asking for the passport number (which I was willing to give out even if my common sense told me not to), they're asking for real documents sent out to Linden Lab to be manually verified. They even asked me for an utility bill with my name and address clearly readable.
So, I guess I'll remain unverified and only being able to be in my island while teenagers verify with their parents documents and are free to roam around anywhere.

Tough luck for me and the people that live in my country

Mily - I read your subsequent posts to this one. Sounds like you did the best you could. I think it is clear that the only course of action when someone self-declares that they are underage in RL is to AR, ban, mute and get onto live help to get a fast solution, and then not get involved at all.

What shocked me is that even after a Linden posted the advice to AR in a fairly early post that there continued to be any debate about the rights and wrongs of doing this.

~Snowman~

its more akin to the do-gooder that cant resist poking her nose into the streetgangs affairs, constantly investigating, looking thru curtains, phoning the police, then wondering why the gang turns around and targets her.
let sleeping dogs lie.
im ECSTATIC that a brownshirt, AR filing, sticky beak, daniel linden fan is getting shafted.
maybe she will learn to leave ppl alone and to mind her own pot.