Calling creators

I find it unbelievable that so many people are willing to express their ignorance about the Open Simulator Project.

Open Life is not the only spin off from it for a start and anyone going to any of them will soon discover they are at the alpha/beta stage. And, while the software is still buggy to some extent, it is actually very stable. Features are missing as yet but the rate of development is fast. It dose have the look and feel of SL but it is not written in the same code. In fact, once the platform is fully functional it actually has scope for more improvement than SL is likely to offer or would. I mean more scripting languages and higher prim counts per sim amongst other things.

I wouldn't recomend any of the new grids to idiots with no enthusiasm becuase they have nothing to offer. They are takers who want something for nothing,,, bit like Linden Labs.

But I would recomend that content creators secure their names on all the new grids even if they don't take them seriously now. Because others see value in names and labels and the new grids will take a share of the virtual market within the next year.

And, before long you will be able to cross to those grids from SL anyway, so go figure.

i joined a year ago and logged in 1 time.still my same account i think the last thing i am is in a hurry lol
i asked if anyone could help ..if they can't then thats fine i'll wait another year..
it takes a lot more than two hours of trying to log in to something to get me frustrated..i get that with sl on a good day lol j/k

and i don't care if it is exactly like sl or not..the reason i wanted to get on was to see if i could make anything since so many are asking people to come over for content..

I've seen no ignorance expressed. I see people posting their experiences...Most are dismal, some not so much.

I do however think your faith in the Open Sim project is based in ignorance especially given Phil Deakins assessment and the plethora of recent posts here from people who TRIED to login to other grids.

The other grids are copies of SL taking a parallel road with different features and offers which require even more money and funding.

These grids have zero cash compared to SL in its infancy and cannot even handle more than 2 logins per second.

You are way premature in your assessment of where they are.

I expect Open Life grid to be about the level of SL 2004/05 within 12 months - IF THEY GET THE FUNDING. Because without a lot more money, there will be no backbone to handle a growing user base. And since you were not here in 2003-2005 you really have no idea what an expanding OpenSim/SL Grid looks like when it cannot handle the load.

Right now those projects are doing nothing but following the LL 03 business model with extra features. That is not much.

And this issue on 45,000 prims is a joke. You can rez into a server with 14,000+ sims and feel the freaking lag.

I can tell if im being hit with prim density lag, texture lag, or just plain ol fat ass sim lag. So i do not know how the hell 45,000 prims is going to work with 4 other similators sharing the server. A current SL server lags when you have 1000 prims temp rezzing, can you imagine what 4000 prims temp rezzing would be like on a 45,000 prim sim?

FFS i spent the day in OLG yesterday and could not get one thing accomplished - it took me forever to get my skin working since you cannot use the SL character folder for your skin there (Why the heck not????), flying is funky, teleporting is beyond iffy, i logged into 1/2 a dozen diff sims to try and get different things working. Basic functions like MAKE OUTFIT do not work without crashing, the default sounds are worse than an atari 2600. The freaking list goes on.

But on the positive side, it is an alternative, they have an economy going live next week, and IF, IF, they get money in the future they can be an alternative to SL.

But how great of a difference do you expect when we are all expected to be able to eventually hop from grid to grid? And what about TRUSTED GRIDs - you just cannot have any Tom/Dick/Jane connecting their computer to the grid because that compromises scripts, textures, everything. And what about name ID between grids? Already people do not want a central name database, so how the heck are we going to share one giant world with multiple grids if every grid owner wants to run their own name databse.

There are so many issues. Saying OLG or OSG will be where SL is in 12 months is a bold faced lie to yourself - I've been there since February, and 9 months later there are no changes to the point where one can login and go "OH GREAT, COOL".

Stop using these other grids as some weapon against SL - they are growing in parallel to SL not in competition.

When one of these grids gets handed ten plus million dollars to do with as they please, we will see a jump like you would not believe. It happened in SL from 03 to 04. But for now, they are moving at a snails pace and to think they can compete with a company making the money SL is making is just lying to yourself.

LL has to totally drop the ball, and if the other grids did start catching up, LL still has the gross amount of cash to implement drastic changes in any direction they want to go to stay ahead of the curve.

This whole jump ship to a better grid thing is not so easy as so many of you idealist are making it out to be.

The economy going online in OLG is a huge difference, but in and of itself, in the grand scheme of things, it is not much. It is enough to stir the pioneering dreaming spirit in me, but I always live with a strong dose of realism.

I will be building in OLG and hoping it picks up, but realistically I am not expecting any such SL killer to come from ANY of the Open Simulator Project Grids. Alternatives in a slower, calmer, possibly closer and more familial environment, yes.

Pretty well put Briana,

Having dabbled in OL myself with a sim, I dumped it within a month.
My Skin and clothes never stayed on from one login to another,
heck I couldn't even login most of the time and stay logged.
No working groups, so you pretty much have to set the land permission to 'no build' when you left ect.

No Thanks.

i think olg made a huge mistake by not attempting to validate avatar names.

dumb thing: allow anyone to register any existing sl name on olg.
smart thing: use a bot validation scheme a la slx to ensure the person registering an existing sl name is indeed that person.

i think this was a huge mistake.

check? its delivered in L$ you nub.

Do you remember,

VHS and Betamax also V2000.
Blu-ray and HDdvd.

Only one became popular and survived, the one in the Market place first and not neccessary the best.
History does repeat.

Love
June

you forgot laserdisks, those lp-sized 'dvd' thingos.

erm....yahoo - skype - ? Just a few ideas

SL is ABOUT the economy... You think Open Life or another other grid are in it for kicks and community? please!
They charge for land yes?
95% of ppl dont want to create for community they create to pay their land fees rent fees "having a good time in virtual world" fees.

Get real.

Exactly and as Briana said its not a direct competitor to LL maybe one day if they get funding and LL keeps making gaffes as they are etc etc but thats the future not now It is pioneering, they are listening and the small team is working hard to get things done for the grid. The sims that are being sold and paid for now are financing the development fund along with their backers. So if anyone expects an SL experience at OLG atm then please don't log on and then proceed to moan that you cant do this and that lol

The grid is full mainly of people that have the patience and enthusiasm to try and help make something of it, none of us are expecting to make any money atm and are meeting the sim costs because we want to help things along and its costing me less than what an OS would have cost me here, but i fully expect not to see any returns whatsoever on the sim costs, im doing it because i like the risks involved. As Briana said getting clothes sorted etc can be a bloody nightmare, as are many other things lol but if you have the drive and desire to play in a developing grid attend the meetings with the devs, join the chat room on the website and contribute to something that could and note the word could, be a contender as a great grid then please join. When i drop back onto the SL grid after OLG and can do everything most of the time then i appreciate SL, the LL management are the ones i can't trust anymore.

So as i've said OLG is great if you want to help develop and learn but not if you want to logon and expect an SL experience and earn lots of cash lol and to the whiners about OLG what do you expect its so new but at least they are trying and listening

Of course they are making money they are a business and thank god we have the 5% there atm that are in it for the fun as some us can afford the risks and also enjoy the risks don't forget that, we are not all in the game to make money be it SL or OLG and its us small percentage that will help these grids develop all over the place Remember a lot of people paid LL 250USD to become Founder/Charter members and it was that small group and others that financed LL in the early days just like what is happening now with OLG so not everyone is in it for the money

Are you sure? By that, I mean, is it a full-time business for them, or just some part-timers who have seen an opportunity to make some money by doing what anybody else can do - using OpenSim freely? It's a genuine question because, if it's a full time occupation for the owners, then I would see it in a slightly different light than I see it now. But even if it's a full time occupation for them, I still see it as relying wholly on OpenSim, which is something that anyone can do, and not a development of their own. And, if that's true, then they can't develope it in the same way that LL has developed SL. I.e. they can't introduce something that SL has until the OpenSim people incorporate it into OpenSim.

Hey Phil

Here is some info on OLG

http://www.openlifegrid.com/Main/News/tabid/66/Default.aspx

first i have to be able to get in lol
i have no problem making free content..as i have told people in sl .if i were here for the money i would be doing something else in sl like land rentals or something.
i don't get frustrated in tuff places..i just find my way until i have my own system down and get busy..

i think what you are seeing here is people coming here trying to get people over there by saying it's the new world and the place to be in the future.. when they hear the comments of people that have tried is when we get the real story lol

if i can get in there i don't care how hard it is to do things..hard is just something that gets easier the longer you are around it.. i've been a part of too many alpha beta's to let a virtual world get me frustrated lol
i'll get in but it will probably be me finding a way myself.
have to love a good challenge lol

They are business enough to now be looking at hiring on more hands moving toward 24/7 support for OLG with its latest growth spurt. And no they are not hiring from the grid. They are getting a new office to get some developers in shortly, and will be hiring just like any other software/application development company.

As for the question of content security, just like LL, OLG (3DX) will respond to DCMAs. Raw library bots like copybot can not connect to OLG, and they already have a crew testing permission vigorously. A resident from SL took up this subject with the developers in chat just yesterday. Yes there is some stolen content from SL floating around right now, and I don't personally condone it, but if content creators are not willing to step forward and create alternatives what do you suppose is going to happen? Yes there are some there already, but not enough. The product you may be discarding and discontinuing here would be gold there as legitimate freebies and could eventually provide a spring board for business.

As for a portal between the two? Not so sure that will come to pass, the development of OLG is already beginning to split away from LLs. So one will have to see. Really am looking forward to mesh prims though, and mesh hair and clothing that has physics, and honestly the whole Avatar 2.0 project for that matter.

If it really moves away from SL and is developed into something in its own right, rather than trying to be an SL clone, then I'll applaud and support it. I.e. if they have the ability to develope differently to SL (e.g. working websites on a prim), then I'll applaud and support it, even if I don't actually use it myself.

As a creator, I won't be going over there - at least not until it's usable. It'll take a very good working system for me to spend real money on it.

That attitude, that the implicit threat of content theft should be used to blackmail content creators into selling content on OL, is repulsive.

Is that Blackmail?

What i suppose is going to happen is that people will 'create their OWN things'. And not copybot steal stuff from SL to import to an empty OLG because no content is there. That is bullcrap and it should be locked down by the OLG staff. They need to stop this now or OLG will start off as a content rip off yard sale for SL originated items.

When SL started, we sourced the web for our material. So now that OLG has started are lazy 'pioneers' going to source SL for content, or be true pioneers and make their own original creations to move their world forward? That is the hurdle that the OLG will have to make when they become a more stable platform and building becomes easier.

I definitely predict a rash of copybot theft from SL to 3rd grids that is going to make heads spin. Because lots of people, as proven in SL already, do not want to do honest work for an honest dollar and are going to steal content from SL to establish themselves on other grids as content makers.

It will be so easy to become "the huge" latex dealer on OLG by GLintercepting the textures from SL. It *is* going to happen as surely as it happens already on our SL Grid.

LOL who is blackmailing anyone and what attitude??? There is more theft and rip offs on SL and sold on SLstreet than there is in OLG. Unfortunately people are using SecondInventory to upload things that they shouldn't and i bet its not just to OLG. At least they are taking the threats of copybot etc seriously and not allowing them to connect to their grid unlike LL who allow it all the time!

Unfortunately LL has allowed a lot of creators stuff to be easily copied and transported god knows where through various things that have happened over the years here and thats the bigger shame, as these other grids grow Im sure the permissions will be tight and creators will join them but for the time being now a lot of creators are now on OLG creating stuff for free for others to use and i applaud them for that and im sure the ones that are in it for the money will join the grids out there as soon as they can make some money from them

I know that there are a lot of problems with securing SL content, and I understand that. But the above post basically said that, if creators don't go and sell their stuff in OLG, they shouldn't be surprised when people copy it from SL, because after all they can't be expected to have nothing in OLG can they? And - that's a despicable attitude.

There is content makers like Cel Edman who sell content on Xstreet and allow
his content to be used for Openlife grid and Secondlife grid or at least time
I talked to him and saw his TOS it said that.
There will probably be more as Openlife is used and understands how to do
so and protect their ip rights.
There is also on Xstreet full permission clothing psd files that could be used
on OL providing they are following the designers TOS.
I bet there also other designers of content who would have no objection to
selling content for OL if asked and their content wasn't being misused or
broadly distributed to anyone without getting something back.
Most People want little payment though for the efforts its natural thing to want.
I don't mind doing things for free but I don't want it expected all the time but I can't figure out OL yet.
I reminds of me when I first came to SL and couldn't figure anything out.
The OL chat room is very nice the one time I stopped by even met few people
I recognized.

LOL ! I saw this in my email and was about to remark on that comment too.

I mean how did SL cope before content creators came in and made "stuff" for others?
Oh I know..people learned how to make stuff themselves! Awesome idea..

People shift over from SL and "expect" things to be waiting and content creators to be there all lined up with hand outs and stores...

Customers ( some ) seem to think because they paid for something once in SL that gives them the right to drag it over to other grids because " why should I have to start over??"
( quoted )

Well, when you move to ANY other online game you start afresh. There.com WOW Everquest..is no different than OL or other grids.
The owners of these grids make it perfectly clear they do not want to be called SL spin offs and seperate themselves from SL as much as possible with quotes like
" Made by residents for residents" and " new world "
But people from SL ( the bulk of their customers ) are going over there with expectations of clothing skins textures and everything that SL has taken 5 yrs + to develop.

You cant have your cake and eat it. If you want a "new world" you have to build that world up from scratch just as we did with SL, most pf these ppl werent around when SL was just out of beta and have no concept of what its like to be in a VW with little to no stores or content.
These places are for visionaries not the " convienience culture" the majority of SL'ers are today.

To be really into these worlds you must WANT to be part of the development, its a opportunty to get in first to develop a business in a world were there are no competitors..THATS the benefit

If you want a ready made virtual paradise then you have to accept SL is your home and pay the prices required to own land there....or not and just enjoy the fruits of labour content creators have spent years developing FOR SL'ers and NOT for ppl to copy and drag off into other grids and new worlds.

Thats exactly how I feel. I know if we dont make available TRU textures to these grids so people can build to the quality they are accustomed to in SL they will justify it just as the person who made that comment did.

I have already seen it in some customers " why should I pay twice for my textures?"
" omg what a nightmare I have NOTHING over there I have to start over "
" why cant i upload TRU textures in my name??? "

Its a logistical nightmare and something we have been dreading.

One place LCO has assured me she will remove any person who is found selling or even using TRU textures on their grid without our permission.
We have over 70 artists inc outside texture companies, but we have looked into delivering direct from the website but these places are still in alpha stages and the reliability of the servers would mean too many failed delivery issues not to mention someone would have to be located in the grid to deal with customers over there.
We cannot have a manager in all these grids.
Its really not about making more money but rather preventing people from justifying their actions of copyright breaches because " I have no textures here but in SL I have tons! so I am going to take them over and strip the creators name from them - then give them to friends and they give them to their friends who in turn give them to noobs who then end up boxing them up and selling them or burning a CD and selling them on ebay"

It really IS a blackmail situation sadly. If you dont have a a store there and SHOW your in world and watching people WILL abuse the IP sadly.

Lilybeth, what about selling texture packages on your OWN website, separate from ANY grid? That way, you could advertise them as "compatible with virtual worlds X, Y, Z..."

Plus, you get away from using microcurrencies and deal directly in US$. Which may let you actually charge a bit more without scaring away the customers.

Textures seem to be a natural product for this approach, although other basic "building blocks"...animations, maybe...might also use it.

Anything that could be sold from a website would need to be uploaded, which would make the buyer the creator, and able to set up shop selling them.