Are Virtual Worlds the new place to discrminate in?

so you think if someone says "you can't come here because you are black" that's ok?

Better add me to the ban list, then. I've a photo from my FL youth in the 1st life tab. Granted, I make it clear that that's not exactly a new photo, but still.

Meanwhile, I don't tend to go where I'm not welcome. besides, places with a lot of sexual content aren't going to appeal to me anyway. I keep that in my first life, not the second. I find it annoying when places that are not sexual in nature give me trouble for being a kid avvie, though, or when other avatars seem to feel justified in calling me names or otherwise attacking me. Like the other night at a favorite store (shout out to Cluster!) when two avvies -- one from 2007 and one noob friend of theirs -- decided to call me a pedo and a perv, decided I was a 50 year old man (wrong on both counts!), and threatened to "kick my kid a** over five sims." 'course, this one them a mute and an AR.

Don't want me somewhere? Don't worry -- I likely would not wish to be there anyway, but treat me like that simply for having a particular avatar? Not appropriate.

As for me, I don't really get worked up about a person's avatar choices. Some might put me on guard (as in "that not an uncommon look for a griefer" or whatever), but I'm going to spend a lot more time judging a person on their actions instead of the specifics of their avatar.

Well besides the height thing though there are people who use wheelchairs and most I've meet are in wheelchairs in RL. I was a club with people dancing one night when someone came in with his wheelchair. He bumped into a couple of people but no more than anyone just coming in and moving when things aren't fully rezzed. This owner of the club tole him no vehicles in the club and to remove the wheelchair. He explained he was in a wheelchair in RL and he wasn't there to cause trouble. The owner said take it off or be banned to the guy took it off. I sent him a message saying I thought he should file an abuse report for intolerance and he said it was okay and he wasn't going to worry about it.

Now to me it bothered me a lot. It was intolerance and abuse.

One of the things I'm working on is a sim for Ontario and we are putting in wheelchair access and other help tools for disabled people. It's extra work but it represents an idea and it has a message that says we want everyone to feel they are represented and their presence wanted no matter who they are.

Now having wheelchair access isn't required in a virtual world and not everyone should feel they need to build it in their public places but to me it's the ultimate "Yeah I thought of you too and you're welcome" statement.

That's an easy one to answer because the question doesn't arise. It's nothing to do with "we" at all. If a person doesn't like what they find in a place, then leave. They have no "right" to be there. It's that simple.

The idea of places being open to the public doesn't hold up. The places are privately owned and the owner can choose who s/he wants in and who s/he wants to keep out. That's all there is.

"Are"?

Pep (Do you KNOW the difference between fantasy and reality?)

I think people need to remember that a Parcel or a Sim is not a country, but a private home that someone pays for.

Just like in RL. If you own and have bought your house, then I don't have the right to tell you who can and cannot, must or must not allow into the private home you have worked and paid for.

If for your own personal reasons (and lets' not debate that issue) you don't want anyone Black or White, or Disabled or looking like an Animal to come into your own paid for private home then, perhaps that's your choice to make, and have the right to make it.

As someone once said (something like) I may totally disagree with your views in every way, but I would fight for your rights to hold those views.

Or something like that

I agree that if a venue has a theme then the owner has a right to request that visitors fit in with that theme. If I was refused because I was not dressed correctly or that I was not a furry or a dragon (if that was the theme), then I would have no problem. but to be refused or told to change because of the wheelchair, height or the color of skin ( as long as it was a natural color, not for example green with yellow spots) then I would not be happy.

I agree that if a venue has a theme then the owner has a right to request that visitors fit in with that theme. If I was refused because I was not dressed correctly or that I was not a furry or a dragon (if that was the theme), then I would have no problem. but to be refused or told to change because of the wheelchair, height or specific color of skin ( as long as it was a natural color, not for example green with yellow spots) then I would not be happy.

Yes I know the difference. but if someone models their avie on RL then being discriminated aginst because of it even in sl is very real

I have a private home that I pay for. I also have places that are stores that I pay for. The distinction is important, I think. I would be far less accommodating towards *any* sort of avatar that decides to walk into my home and up to my room without at least attempting to see if that's okay, than I would be with anyone coming to my stores.

And how is anyone to know that?

Pep (and why should they care?)

PS It is becoming apparent that you *don't* know the difference between fantasy and reality!

We are not talking about private homes. Lets say you worked and paid for a shop RL you couldn't refuse entry to someone because of their race. or because they were disabled.

Basically I agree it's a problem if you go to say a welcome area or Sandbox Island and have people trying to intimidate you into leaving for having a black avatar or one that's too short, etc. Those are public areas and unless LL has specifically prohibited you from being there you have every right. Report any such discrimination, ask them to stop or (my favorite) just tell them to f- off. They can't do a thing to you unless they want to risk suspension for themselves.

Now if it's a private island or parcel then you can discriminate any way you want as far as who is allowed. This includes places "open to the public". In SL unless it's owned by Governor Linden or an LL-backed group (Blake Sea for example), it counts as private property. It doesn't matter if it's ridiculous, mean or you don't think it's right. And it goes both ways of course; you can allow or prohibit by whatever method you desire when it comes to your own land.

First of all SL is not a game. It's a social network and being a social network it has real world significance.

Second the idea that just because a place that is open to the public is privately owned they have the right to be intolerant is bullshit and Real World businesses that are also private aren't allowed to discriminate either. And then saying Second Life places of business is exempt because they are within the confines of Linden Lab flies about a far as Safeway refusing to allow seeing eye dogs in their stores because they lease the buildings and so are exempt.

OK, while everybody interested is here, let's get a petition going for disabled toilets in sl.

Pep (In all my wanderings I haven't yet seen one!)

You don't know that is my point.

And sorry it is my fault for wanting people to care about the feelings of others.

ps It is becoming apparent that you are either taking the p*** or are just a bigot yourself

This is where RL and SL diverge in property rights. In RL the government has forced its way into business over time to prevent discrimination just as with public society. LL has yet to do the same. In regards to SL unless you can quote part of the TOS or an official ruling by LL that I missed then private business areas are treated just the same as a private home.

This is not discrimination, its intolerance, and the cure for it IS Discrimination.

If you meet an intolerant person, discriminate, Mute them.
If they are on your friends list, discriminate, drop them.
If it is a group, discriminate, drop it.
If it is a place, discriminate, dont go there again.

When you have done this you will not know any intolerant people.

If everyone who cared did this, intolerance would disappear from normal lives, and the intolerant could just complain to each other, alone.

SL *is* a game. Real life is a game. If you don't realise that then you are also having problems distinguishing fantasy from reality.

SL owners do not have the right to discriminate against REAL people, but they have every right in the world to discriminate against any avatar representation or behaviour they like, because these are fantasies, wishful thinking and even downright lies. No-one in sl can prove that they are disabled, black, or a dragon in real life, and you can't possibly be considered to be discriminatory when the thing that you are considering is "just pretend".

Pep (who will continue to discriminate against those idiots who can't distinguish reality and fantasy)

I suppose if you've spent hundreds of hours developing a realistic airfield with replicas of real planes, you're not going to want to have a green teddy bear flying around on a wobbly pink cube, are you?

It is a bit disconcerting when I, as an average height woman, find myself surrounded by tall giants of both sexes. But maybe they ARE tall people. It would be nice for SL to provide some definitive in-world guidance about what avatar heights represent typical RL equivalents. People don't have to stick to those, but they would be useful for those who want to. I'm 5ft 6in in RL measurements, which is 5ft 11in by the smaller SL foot and inch.

"would you like to tell the judge that we made a giant floating penis on your pretend video game lawn?"

There's your RL 'significance'.

Then leave.
No one in SL can be expected to be there make you happy. And if I want to refuse someone in a prim built wheelchair, that is my right, it is Second Life for Petes sake, not Real Life!

And of course, I do not approve of discrimination, but it still happens. Shit happens. So why not fight it in real life instead of some virtual world? Because in RL, it is much harder to just TP somewhere else. Much harder to change a skin. Much harder to detach a wheelchair.

So if "you don't know" you should assume that someone IS a 60 foot cyber-dragon with pink fluffy feathers in real life and you must be careful not to step on his blue suede shoes?

If you want people to care about the feelings of others then I suggest you direct your focus towards the real world.

Pep (Would love to see this taken to a real life court!)

PS You are right on both counts - and you are demonstrating as much if not more bigotry (in the correct sense of the word) as I am!

Amy, I am sorry, RL rules and laws dont exist in SL in that way, BUT, in SL you can decide to ignore people completely, the mute button does it, and if someone stops you from going to their store to buy, go to another strore, THEY are losing a sale, YOU are gaining by never having to talk to that person ever again

As an aside, Conifer, do you like tall men? *grins lasciviously*

Pep (Likes women smaller than him. Is THAT discriminatory?)