Account Cancelled: Inventory Purged

I'm not a land baron, but I doubt that they get special deals.

The only change that ocurrs when I tier up is that the numbers for the next payment are changed. I don't have to pay until the next due date, which is in arrears.

Maybe they have a special deal for you

back again ..

I have an idea: I would like to meet you in-world with my old canceled account to make a test so I see how your account acts on different servers. Please contact me in-world via IM

Sorry to hear this, I was wondering if this might help and go into your inventory on the filters and set it back to say 60 days and see if anything comes back? Its worth a try

You didn't mention the L$106K in that summing up.

Rock

Complete and utter rubbish.

If you do not own any land, immediately on the purchase of new land one months tier is due immediately.

Therefore land tier is paid in advance.

In the Braggs vs Linden Labs case, the presiding judge totally denied Linden Labs the right to use the Terms of Service in the case and basically he vetoed it despite a request from Linden Labs.

Therefore legal presedence has been set that the TOS is not worth the paper its written on. Probably does not comply with US consumer law which of course overrides any unfair contract.

Also a creditor cannot seize an amount or an asset worth more than what is owing. It seems that Linden Labs have slipped up again.

LL immediately changed their TOS (everyone had to click on a new one when they logged in) and also certain elements of their advertising that the judge didn't think was fair. This is how they have attempted to remedy the unconscionability of their contract, so that when this happens again, things will go their way.

Of course, I would always encourage a consumer to seek their rights in any event.

Time and again is has been stated by LL that the L$ is play money and no RL currency, therefore it has no monetary value. The fact that it can be exchanged for real money does not change that basis.

Linden Labs is NOT a court of law or authority that determines monetary or asset values or consumer law. Self-regulation has failed miserably and it won't be too long before governments around the world start introducing legislation. I would predict by the year 2015.

Raven used to run a business in SL until Linden Labs interrupted it during a minor crisis. I know people who run businesses in SL - the income pays their RL mortgage/rent and all the bills. Raven's creations are also protected by the DMCA which, by the way, have been stolen. She owns them. They have a future income value in US$

If I remember correctly, some of these issues were taken into account in the Braggs vs Linden Lab.

Some people obviously missed that fact that Raven became unemployed recently. She is a lawyer. She maybe unemployed but she is STILL a lawyer.

Novis, unlike the general population ignorant of the law, lawyers don't accept stupid excuses like yours for fraud especially if they are the victim.

Unfortunately seeing that Linden Labs conceded in the Braggs vs Linden Labs case, there was no court judgement, therefore no legal precedence.

To the OP: Have you tried the beta grid? That's on the off-chance that the account still has inventory there. If so... no idea how you get Second Inventory to your beta grid account, but if you have full-perms stuff there, it may be worth a scramble to save what you can before that inventory gets wiped in a refresh. (It may already be long gone; I have no idea how often they refresh the beta grid's databases.)

FWIW, I raised the MISC-1961 issue at Jack's office hours yesterday; transcript at https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Qie_Niangao/Jack_Linden_Office_Hour_Transcript/2009-06-11. Nothing concrete, but there's a bit of hope in this edited extract:

The point--or my point, anyway--is that the current practice of LL canceling overdue Premium accounts instead of downgrading them to Basic is just bad business. Remember that account holders can downgrade their accounts manually, so it's not as if the threat of cancellation keeps them paying--rather, it acts as a huge incentive to downgrade early (before that unexpected hospitalization, say), and disincentive to ever become Premium in the first place.

And as we see in this case, purging the inventory is surely no way to encourage a lapsed account to re-up.

It's not even "greedy"--or at least not *competently* greedy, inasmuch as the policy costs LL a lot more revenue than it saves. It's just stupid. What I find mysterious is why we're having such a difficult time getting LL to really understand how b0rked this is, especially when the obvious fix is so easy.

If you have missing items in your main grid inventory, you can log into the beta grid and quiesce your inventory there. You have the same inventory you have on the main grid. Sometimes the missing item(s) appear. When you log back into the main grid the previously missing item(s) also reappear.



I am dead against downgrading Premium Accounts to Basic especially of you own land particularly on the mainland. Basic Accounts cannot own land. Ninety nine times out of 100 the value of the land would greatly exceed tier debt therefore the indiscriminate seizing of the land without coming to an agreement (market valuee price) with the owner is illegal (Consumer Law). RL or SL - makes absolutely no difference.

Probably the alternative for Raven is to rebuild her inventory the best she can. Use a utility you can get on Xstreet to extract all full perms objects to her hard drive - then join Legend and import those objects from her harddrive. They will all work on Legend as well.

LAUGHS

Sorry, but tier is paid in arrears. It's too long ago for me to remember exactly what happened when I first bought land but tier is paid in arrears.

Perhaps you are mistaking something. When you buy land, and it changes your tier level upwards, you will pay more tier than you previously paid, but the payment isn't due until your next tier payment date. Therefore, it is paid in arrears. E.g. my tier date is the 24th of the month. If I buy more land today that takes me into to the next tier level up, I won't pay the extra until the 24th. On the 24th I'll pay tier for all the land that I've had in the previous month, even if I've reduced my land.

That's the way it works. If it's different when you first buy land, that's the only time that it's different. From then on, tier is *always* in arrears - and I don't think it's different when you first buy land.

You may be making a mistake because, in one sense, the tier is due when you raise your level, but it's not payable until your next tier date, which is 1 month after you buy your first land, assuming that it's more than the 512 tier-free allowance.

Perhaps a little research would be good before making such bold statements as "Complete and utter rubbish."

1. If the land is group owned tiering down will not automatically abandon the land immediately, but yes that's a legitimate point, brought up in the Jira, which is why the suggestion was made that this should be enabled as a checkbox for the account so people can request that their account be treated this way.

2. If the account is cancelled for non-payment the land would be lost anyway, so what's the difference?

This is why you have this misconception and completely misleading everyone in this forum with your garbage.

If you commence a monthly payment, like RL rent, you pay the first months rent in advance before you move in. Any subsequent changes after that (like rent increases) are completely irrelevent to the fact that payment of rent must always be paid in advance (not arrears) as is the Land Tier.

Get real sunshine. I don't need to do research on this. All you need is basic common sense!!!!!! Engage your brain before typing.

Its billed in arrears based on what your maximum tier usage was for the previous month. I found this out when I sold all my mainland before the billing date and was still billed I was in informed by LL that the bill is for the month just past.

For goodness sakes! First, there is no need to be so agressive. Second, you are wrong.

Tier is paid in arrears. That's all there is. If it's too difficult for you to understand, I'll explain it again - hopefully in easier words to understand. The tier for an increase in land/tier level is *not* due to be payed until the end of the tier month, and what is payed is the amount due for the land that has been owned during the month UP TO that date. Tier is *always* paid in arrears like that, whether the level has gone up, down, or stayed the same.

Please do a modicum of research before putting your foot in your mouth again.

Btw, it is not like RL rent.

If it helps, here's a URL for you:-

http://secondlife.com/land/pricing.php

Take a look at the Land Use Fee section and repeat these words 10 times before posting - "I will not put my foot in my mouth again."

Um... have you ever actually owned land in SL? Or maybe you've always rented from an estate owner and that's why you are soooo confused.

Update: Nothing to report. I am still trying to get past the customer support rep that keeps handling my ticket. There was an unusual response from him last night that I needed to confirm with him in hard numbers, so I reopened the ticket. By his calculations, he claimed there was a 7 day grace period after missed payment, then a thirty day suspension period, then another 60 after the 30 days before a purge. So 97 days(ish)?

I asked him to confirm for me when my payment was missed (which I know) and what date the purge happened (which I believe I know from the 5/19 date the L$ went into the System)

Folks, I may still be learning SL....but man, those time periods just dont seem to add up in my case.....a suspension in March 09 and a Purge in June.

Before I post his initial support reply, I want to hear back from him as to the dates they have on record.

Rest assurred, I will post all the replies and my counter replies as soon as I confirm.

Thank you all for investing your own time and energy into reading, replying and tracking this thread. Whatever the disposition is, I will keep you all informed. I hate it when so many threads cite a problem but you never see a post from the starter as to how it became resolved.

Cheers,
Rave

LOL You can't compete with stupidity.

You paid your FIRST tier in advance and will always be in advance month to month from the time WHEN YOU FIRST BOUGHT LAND. When I purchased land on the mainland not only did I pay for the land, I had to pay the first months tier immediately ($US) and you don't have much time to do this either or else your land purchase will reverse.

THIS MEANS THAT THE FEES WILL ALWAYS IN ADVANCE PERIOD!

What you are talking about is what happens if you purchase additional land during a particular month and only if it affects the tier levels. Linden Lab cannot charge you in the current month (time of purchase of additional land) because of the fact that YOU HAVE ALREADY PAYED FOR THE CURRENT MONTH IN ADVANCE. Linden Labs can only charge you for this in the following month based on peak usage of the previous month.

This does not make your total land fee go into arrears.

Are you Irish?

I own 8192 sq.m on the mainland and my tier is in advance. I payed one months tier one hour after the purchase of the parcel.

Even estate owners charge you tier immediately upon possession.

I think you spend too long in 3D Worlds and lost touch with the real world, Duckie.

Note: It is only Homesteads, OpenSpace and private regions where the monthly charges commence 30 days after possession.

I don't think you spend enough because you have no idea what you are talking about.

I think it's important that you try this idea sooner rather than later. I think I read that your assets over there are updated once a month maybe? I'm going by memory so I could be wrong.

I have 8192 sq.m. on the mainland so I pay US$40 Land Use Fee. The land cost me $L160K which equates to around AUS$800.

If this land is "lost", as you call it, over a measley $40, I can assure you my lawyer will get right in there putting his size nines (both of them) where the sun don't shine. This also applies to approx 13,000 items in my inventory, bought and payed for. Linden Labs is subject to consumer law just like any other business as is a SL resident.

In Australian law, this situation can only be resolved by the two parties making a mutually agreed arrangement in regard to the disposal of assets at an agreed price and to a value of no more than the amount owing. Australian Law is very similar to US law considering both countries have a FTA in place.

Raven heard nothing and no email notification until she attempted to log in. All she got was one email stating that Linden Labs cannot extract money from her bank. Linden Labs made no attempt to contact her about her land or notice of the intention to delete her inventory. This is shonky.

Thats the difference.

Another thing I find astounding, is that Linden Labs don't back up their assets server as Raven has already found out. This is a shabby way to run a data centre.

The blind leading the blind

Then, if this option was implemented you would simply NOT CLICK THE CHECKBOX THAT SAYS 'TIER DOWN TO BASIC IF I FAIL TO PAY NEXT MONTH'S TIER'.

And when I wrote "what's the difference" I didn't mean "what's the problem", or "what's the difference between this and any kind of sane policy", I meant "what's the difference between this proposal and what Linden Labs actually does".

We are obviously in violent agreement as to the fact that LL's policy is stark raving loony.



They do back up their asset servers. They didn't lose Raven's inventory, they *deleted* it, deliberately, as a matter of policy. This wasn't a technical failure, this was non-judicial punishment.