Might sound weird... Adult Adoption

Oxymoron.

Pep (Post hoc propter hoc?)

I have a pretty extensive (and extended) "family" here in SL. There are a lot of kids (child AVs) among us, but all of my brothers and sisters and I are all adults, and we have a mother and father (Some of us have more than one mother, as our original adoptive mother left the family for one reason or another, and we adopted a new family mother)...

As for how we all came to be this way... Most of us are Sims Online refugees who came over to SL shortly after the demise of TSO/EA-land was announced in mid-2008.

A few examples of the use of posthumous adoption by scholars:

"As to posthumous adoption, it does not seem to have been requisite that the deceased had stated, orally or in writing, his wish that a person succeed him as his adopted son after his death."
-Adoption in IV. century Athens, Lene Rubinstein

"We must keep in mind that there were three forms of adoption at Athens: adoption inter vivos such as we are familiar with today, testamentary adoption, and posthumous adoption."
Niall W. Slater, Professor of Classics at Emory University
http://classics.emory.edu/indivFacPages/slater/slater16.html

"He [Octavian] cannot have deluded himself that claiming his full inheritance would be a simple mater, not least because posthumous adoption really only extended to inheritance of property...This is much less than the legally approved, full adoption as Caesar's son that Octavian required, so the matter would have to be fought out in court."
-Augustus (Roman Imperial Biographies), Pat Southern

Was it only scholars that used posthumous adoption then?

Pep (All you have to do then, Roberta, is wait for me to die of Rhonda's cancer, and you can consider yourself adopted.)

PS So your best shot is two Greek commentaries (we were talking about Roman if you can cast your mind back that far) and an admission that Octavian was not adopted, just the property beneficiary in Caesar's will?

I thought you didn't like quibbling? If he was adopted by a clause in Caesar's will, it had to happen after Caesar's death. That makes it "posthumous", no matter who says the word.

I think the scholars talked about "posthumous adoption" because it was something that happened, not because they like the sound of those words.

Agreed. But it doesn't make it "adoption" though.

Pep (If you want to quibble.)

Your first claim: "Octavian, as with others like him, was effectively a slave until his father died."

Which, I suggested, was untrue, as Octavian's adoption was posthumous.

Your second claim: posthumous adoption is an oxymoron.

Again, this is untrue. It is a phrase scholars use to depict one of several types of adoptions that existed in the ancient world.

Next?

ETA: Ah, I see you are claiming a posthumous adoption is not really an adoption. Is there any evidence you can cite for this, or is it just because you parenthetically say so?

Absolutely! I was Jig's foster mother before she was adopted by an SL Gentleman of the Highest Rank. You see - there is a very clear precedent for adult-ish adoption here.

And for that uniquely challenging odyssey you ought to get a medal or a title or even a crown

Poor Caesarion

You have an extremely short memory span, it seems.

Pep (Did Octavian *really* have a "simple mater" to go with a "dead pater"?)

Actually, Roberta, just stay away from us looney forum folk for your family members and you'll probably do okay.

My memory span is just fine, thank you though

Your (edited) quote of my secondary source excerpt, however, is not evidence against posthumous adoption (since 1. the quote itself is describing its existence, and 2. that Octavian was the one who, the author suggests, required more politically due to his ambitions). Octavian's adoption was legally ratified (a requirement, too, of other types of Roman adoptions), which Southern's book goes on to state.

So again, your claim that "Octavian, as with others like him, was effectively a slave until his father died" is inaccurate, as is suggesting that posthumous adoption is an oxymoron since it is a somewhat widespread, albeit scholarly, term used to describe an ancient practice. We in the modern world may have our own conception of what constitutes "adoption," but that conception is often irrelevant when discussing what a culture 2000 years ago considered adoption.

And, since it appears you are starting to inject a personal dig into the discussion, I'm done with this thread. Have fun

Autumn, this has been entertaining, but also impressive. You have a background in classic history?

Anyway, I've enjoyed your contributions. And learned a few things.

Thank you

And I do!: Roman cultural history was my primary emphasis in graduate school, focusing on Roman religions/gender/and sexualities.

Though, I laugh at myself for applying it to a thread derail on an SL forum

VERY cool indeed!!


Well, let's just say that it represents a step up from a lolcat . . .

I thought you were still my fostymum. What happened - yo sold me or somethin'? Uncle Des just pokes around Old Celadon Castle looking like something out of Gormenghast.

Will the Post-Graduate Mutual Admiration Society kindly belt up? Who the f*** cares who or what the Romans bonked? Consdiering non of us were actually breathing garlic laden Roman air at teh time, I doubt if we're really that accurate. Why not write a doctor's note on sicilian pizzas?

Not good enough for you, are we?
I'll have you know that Deira and Des had it off and here I am. Nothign wrong with a bit of 'ows yer father on a computer as long as you keep the carpet clean.

Do you want me to get Uncle Des to horsewhip the bugger on the steps of the church?

This is what you do. Wear a child avatar and get yourself adopted. The next day switch back to your adult avatar. When they ask you why you're an adult you simply say, "I done growd'd ups!" or "Puberty!" You're welcome.

Wow, our Mother must be so proud of YOU. All your brainy ideas and all your stuffs you write on Milton whatisface. To think, you have avoided real work now for a long long time. That must make her very proud of you. And she DOES favour you. Look at the way she treats you in this thread - all chortly-chorly and curlicues of giggle when I was off and WORKING!! You dont know how hard I work for all my money. And then this other woman with all her Romans and sex in the colisseum. YOU never speak to me liek that:

"Oooooo what ya' studyin'?" says Scyll.
"Lalala I'm studying Roman makeup" says this women.
"Oooo I'm writing my PostPrandialPopOver Thesis on BungTingling" says my sis.
"Lol! You n' me both! I doin' mine of the residue found at teh bottom of 19th Century Milk Bottles"
"oooo are we teh clever dicks" says my HLAF sister.

Meanwhile I'm having to entertain the hordes.
Mums (Deira) and Auntie Laurin - why dont you love me as much as Scolla?

All this back and forth! It's driving me mad.

That does it, conservative clothing and demure hairstyles for the lot of you!

No riding, no hansom cab to town and most of all, no parcel or post ~ I know what you all get up to, hunched over a desk all day scribbling out naughty letters to people you barely know!

I'll bet you've all been cyphering again with total strangers on your rolltops.

It's that Austen girl and her text habit instigating all this, isn't it?

Uncle Desmond, "total" strangers isnt quite accurate. I talk to them first and I never bring them home with me. The gentleman tonight actualy said he would "never forget me"

Nonsense. Every family needs a capricious youngest or it is incomplete.

I throw my hands up as well. Neither of them is the least bit Komodo Dragonish, so it certainly doesn't come from *my* side of the family.