The Lord of the Flies - Child AVs and the Nursery Syndrome

He was 8" while floppy?

I'm sure the same can be said of WOW or any of those other games. Are they "real" as well? I agree with Smith. Real people play SL, but what happens within the boundaries of SL is not real. At least to me. I can recognize that others may feel differently.

The beagle speaketh true.

One of the things about being an adult is interacting with kids. Nurturing them, helping them grow, answering their incessant questions, protecting them. Having child avatars in SL lets us experience this part of life in our virtual lives.

Long live the child avs, is what I say. They make our virtual life more...human.

Sweeter words were never spoken

This ^^^

"Long live the child avs, is what I say. They make our virtual life more...human."

Yes!

I'm quite new to SL, but I have to say that I enjoy having child avis as part of the whole SL "landscape":

I'm actually quite relieved when I do interact with a child avi, because I can be reasonably certain that I will not be propositioned for sex, asked where I live, receive a bite request, or have "my hair sensuously brushed away from my face" in the first 5 minutes of meeting.

I do think certain landscapes - museums, playgrounds, public squares and such look strange with only adult avatars.

This is guilt by association. "Some kind of linkage" which is not a "cause-effect relationship"? You're simply trying to associate something that a lot of people rightfully find repugnant with something else that a lot of people don't understand, and thereby get more people to find that second thing repugnant.

A con artist uses many legitimate principles of selling and business negotiation to commit crimes. Does that mean there is "some kind of linkage" between legitimate business and fraud/bunko? Do we need to "educate" people that they should avoid thinking about business lest they be led to cheat people?

The connection you cite is superficial and illusory. It is not relevant or significant. It is coincidental.



In my college days I did a survey research paper on the body of work that purported to demonstrate that TV violence led to real life violence. The popular media and politicians certainly were taking it all very seriously. I read all of the top-cited studies and found serious methodological flaws in all of them that rendered their conclusions unreliable. (I got an "A". ) Similar notions about "gateway" drugs and addiction that once had a lot of scientific weight behind them were eventually discredited, and for reasons that I have stated: people constantly and incorrectly mistake correlation for cause-and-effect.

While I have not conducted such a survey on this issue, I do occasionally come across surveys done by others that make the same point. A lot of this research is funded by right-wing organizations. It's much the same problem that exists with pharmacological research funded by drug companies that claims safety and effectiveness for certain drugs. I suspect the claim that this is not settled science doesn't have much more behind it than the claims of researchers funded by large corporations that pollute the environment that human-caused global warming is "not settled science."

To return to my main concern: Sexual predation on children is a serious problem. However, as Smith says, the focus is misplaced. It's a problem of families and friends, not something that is widespread out in "the world" or on the internet. Continuing to argue otherwise feeds hysteria, and that hysteria harms people. As I started out by saying, it contributes to the twisted discomfort that a lot of people in SL feel around child avatars (I have no problem with child avatars as long as the people running them don't expect, or try to force, me to behave as though they are real children). It has also resulted in innocent people being forced out of the place, sometimes with loss of real property (money). It's a witch-hunt. It has to stop.

You are right - numerically, the overwhelming preponderance of child molestation is domestic in origin (expanding "domestic" to include the network of familial connections). However, random acts of sexual aggression toward children occur, and they do not SEEM terribly rare (both due to the size of the population and efficacy of the media). These fuel one type of hysteria toward child AVs. People don't care whether or not random predation is *actually* widespread; in RL they are willing to give away an entire community's civil rights to pursue the tiny fraction of predators.

It is also quite true that people accused falsely of child molestation are heavily penalized by society for doing ... nothing. Society's reactions are so virulent that I fear that SL resident's REAL lives will be ruined by moody teens, should the main and teen grids merge. The only shield that people have against false accusation of child sexual predation is the guarantees of constitutional law. In today's climate of extremes, that protection is thin indeed. And within SL, there are no such guarantees.

So there is hysteria about child AVs from two very different populations. FIrstly, there are people desperate to protect children, who believe that any depiction of an evil act anywhere makes that evil act more likely to happen to some child they know. And there are adults desperate to avoid false accusations.
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But only to themselves. Not to the others around them. Jig's position is that kids throw some adults into a particular mode, which is stifling, and that he feels almost honour bound to leave when a child av turns up. I have to say, I feel that way too - I have yet to have ANY encounter with an SL child that didn't turn out to be unbelievably creepy in many different ways, so now I do my damnedest to stay away from them and the game they are playing.

I don't see why this should infringe on my enjoyment of my game; I'd like to see a segregation, for their benefit, and mine.

Isn't Blue Mars the one where only employees of Blue Mars are allowed to make stuff?

Frankly, I rather like that in SL, a noob can walk in, rez a prim, and go. I can't stand Chiild AVs, but Blue Mars would not be my solution to them. I'd be more for a flag on an account that could be used to keep them out of Sims al-together.

- But those flags would need to work both ways. If I flag as wearing adult items, I should not be able to enter a PG sim, anymore than a child AV should be able to enter a mature or adult sim. And enforcement of the flagging would be impractical unless you required all inventory items to flag one way or another - but most things can go both ways. Its the whole package that counts.

No matter what Blue Mars claims, technology cannot interpret a gestalt, only human eyes can do that.



Adfarms weren't an abuse of community standards until policy was changed to make them an abuse.

I believe that was the point. If you're searching for the right topic to debate for/against - that's it there.

Oh, go segregate yourself.

Well said.

By the way, I've been trying to find a FAQ on forum HTML tags. I wanted to get the "Originally posted by" line into the quote but I couldn't find anything that explains how to do that. Can you tell me what tag to use?

Thanks.

I am not around child avies too much unless it is a family related event or I'm working on a wedding. When I am around them, I found them to be quite darling, humorous and sometimes a breath of fresh air. Like the wedding I did Saturday, the vicar asked who gives the bride and the ring bearer said the police. Or, when the couple was reciting their vows, again the same child asked what is a vowel?

It was very surreal and they rp'd it to the hilt. They weren't doing that insidious baby talk and laughter. It was very normal and appropriate. Now that is what I find ANNOYING!

I engage in limited rp and move on. If I find the child's behavior to be obnoxious, either I leave or mute them. It is no biggie.

I had a friend that called everyone who played a child avie "brainfried". I chastised him for that because the ones I knew at that time had some horrible things happen to them as a child. For them, SL was a way for them to create some positive events/memories as they cannot return in time and undo what was done.

I don't go around asking why are you roleplaying a child avie to those that do. I just go with the flow. Clearly they are adults irl and it is none of my business. Just like I'm not a wedding planner irl, but I rp one. Why? Because I enjoy it and I'm very good at it. It seems the adults roleplaying child avies, slaves, dragons, furries, etc., feel the same way.

It is not possible to segregate everyone because they are "different" and it makes someone uncomfortable. There are lots of things that makes me uncomfortable in sl, I just choose to move on and leave them be.

There are probably those that perhaps are engaging in some sexual ageplay. But to the point the finger and say they all should be banned or segregated just because there is a small percentage of those that do participate in sexual ageplay, is definitely wrong in my book.

No one likes to be labeled "guilty" by association.

I'm kind of with Lias on something here though...

Why are you bringing that old topic into this rehash of an old topic? They're separate topics.


- This, but about the bringing in of that other topic.

She is right - that is internet stalking.

Move on to the present. Debate her on whatever weakpoints she's put out in -THIS- thread. If your claim is better or stronger, I'm sure you will be able to find plenty of them, in -THIS- thread.

I think Child avatars are quite important, because of the spirit of fun and playful experimentation they embody. It speaks volumes that Child is one of the few roles which can be fully actualised within SL (the others being Creator, Businessperson, Socialite, Entertainer, Connoisseur, Sportsperson and Griefer).

The issue of "imposing your RP upon others" is one that's more general. Child avatars might do it more easily, but it happens all the time, usually just because one person is more boisterous than others in the area, or fancies themselves an Entertainer. Singling out children for that doesn't seem particularly fair..

But on the other hand, I _do_ disagree with the child avatars who vociferously advocate that they have every right to walk around in Zindra, even, as long as they're not actually doing anything adult. Whether or not it's against the TOS, it's surely going to make people there uncomfortable.

Maybe there should be an NCI class on 'RP on the greater Grid' or something.

- Have a child AV, a Bloodlines AV, a Furry, and a Gorean slave AV come and each give 10 minutes on how to be responsible with their theme when in areas not-dedicated to the theme, and how that is different from areas dedicated to the theme. That then leaves 10 minutes at the start and 10 at the end. The first 10 minutes could be an intro to general responsible public RP, and the final 10 mins a Q&A.

And then give me 5 minutes at the end to come bash all the Nekos that insist on wearing horse tails or kitsune tails and calling themselves Nekos... Put at the end because it'll just be a silly rant that no one wants to hear anyway...

Pussycat, this is a very good idea. Possibly it could be a follow on to the class I teach at GQ Start on human-type relationships and their hazards. If you're interested, please assemble your cast of characters and write a lesson outline and send it to kelley Griffith in world.

It wouldn't be me organizing it. I'm not part of any of those communties. I just grabbed the first four I could think of from the 'frying pan list' - and figured they would do well with a venue like that.

All I want to do is run around with a pair of wooling sheers and chase after Nekos wearing the wrong animal's tail.

I'm in an odd mood today so I just thought I'd add:
I have two child avis. One is Pippi Longstocking, the other is Wednesday Addams. Creepy enough for anyone lol?

Yikes! You know, it's actually not easy to find good kitty tails. When I went looking recently, almost everything I saw was those big bushy things.

You and Immy sound like soulmates.

Uchi Desmoulin's free cat avatar comes with a nice one. You can pick one up in Curious.

If you click on the "quote" button you'll see it.

How does that work?

If I create and use a male avatar, I'm not creating memories of being a man.

I'm creating memories of being a woman sitting at a keyboard moving a male avatar around on a screen.

???