What are Ginko Bonds worth?

Allowed by who?

Nick could of said, "Hey people, I blew all your money on hookers and beer!" And the Lindens wouldnt have done anything about it.

...I wonder why was the conversion even allowed?

*sigh* Please just give me a straight answer...

If he comes out and says tommorrow all those Bonds are worthless - Nothing will happen to him.

Well, not quite. Mr. Luke would probably confiscate his WSE holdings. We would then trust him to sell them off.
<opinion>This is why the bond is priced at L$0.20 instead of L$0.00... you can see from the WSE site that he holds some securities. The bond is priced based on what we know can be collected in default.</opinion>

One conclusion that could be made based on that is that Discloure of Real World Assets would raise the Bond Value accordingly.

I think its a combination of disclosure and validation. He could "disclose" that he has swiss cheese futures to cover the bonds. No one would really believe that. He'd have to produce some account statements or have an independent accounting firm audit him. With WSE assets, we see what he has. It's in black and white. He can't suddenly sell it without everyone finding out about it. Finally, the commissioner of the exchange it rides on has said he'd liquidate on NP's behalf if it came to it. I imagine the market puts some degree of faith in that. Apparently it is a high degree of faith.

... He can't suddenly sell it without everyone finding out about it. Finally, the commissioner of the exchange it rides on has said he'd liquidate on NP's behalf if it came to it. I imagine the market puts some degree of faith in that. Apparently it is a high degree of faith.

This whole thing is very interesting. I think the Ginko bank is a failed investment scheme but with the present turn of events and Nick still adding to his WSE holdings he could really fleece his original depositors. How? Since 75% of his investments are offworld whether many of them still exist or not he can still buy the bonds with alt accounts and over time control 100% of the bonds. It would appear Shaun Altman thinks that is the plan since he has the last time I looked 9 million of them.

We have lots of people saying they are worthless and get rid of them for whatever you can. Other people are holding out hoping for full value if he ever redeems them and speculators buying them so Nick has to pay them L$1 per bond if he ever wants to reopen the bank.

I don't have any and didn't have any money deposited when the bank closed but am watching to see how this plays out. How much of the bonds can Nick buy at deep discount with alt accounts before he has enough of the total deposits and some outside backer willing to front him the money to redeem them fo L$1? Remember if Nick holds enough of the bonds he is just paying himself when he redeems them to quickly repay any outside backer leaving him owning 100% of the remaining assets of Ginko Finiancial both inworld and offworld.

...leaving him owning 100% of the remaining assets of Ginko Finiancial both inworld and offworld.

That would be the shallow uptake on the situation, but I'm not convinced it is that shallow. What makes it obviously deeper than that is the fact that the functionality existed for it to happen.

To quickly devalue the investment and toss it creates an escape goat., especially out of NP. Well, an actual escape goat or not, it's pretty solid evidence that this is not just a ponzi scheme even if there was an intention of a ponzi scheme involved or at least made to look like one. Given the functionality existed, it more so looks like one than it really is one, or so they say "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is," and right to just to declare it a ponzi scheme sounds to good to be true.

Let's dig deeper. =)

That would be the shallow uptake on the situation, but I'm not convinced it is that shallow. What makes it obviously deeper than that is the fact that the functionality existed for it to happen.

To quickly devalue the investment and toss it creates an escape goat., especially out of NP. Well, an actual escape goat or not, it's pretty solid evidence that this is not just a ponzi scheme even if there was an intention of a ponzi scheme involved or at least made to look like one. Given the functionality existed, it more so looks like one than it really is one, or so they say "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is," and right to just to declare it a ponzi scheme sounds to good to be true.

Let's dig deeper. =)

What has been noted is the massive conflict of interest here by permitting him to list investment products with incomplete prospecti, as he doesn't disclose shit about where he puts the money. But since he holds 35% of WSE's parent company, we imagine it afforded him special treatment.

.

Do you think that he took our money and invested it in WSE, so he thought could pay out at anytime until the Casino were forced out. Now just think our money is in Bonds on WSE and we all now have accounts. While we're there, why not invest in some stock. If we do then WSE gets commission which goes back to Nick.

We're screwed no matter what. Why did WSE have a 12 million dollars loss in one day as reported on their web site. That day being right before Ginko's duck sank.

This as really pissed alot of people off. SL should at the least look into this and address it. They too are losing money and getting a bad name over all this.

What has been noted is the massive conflict of interest here by permitting him to list investment products with incomplete prospecti, as he doesn't disclose shit about where he puts the money. But since he holds 35% of WSE's parent company, we imagine it afforded him special treatment.

WSE has nothing to do with his decision to convert the accounts, other than that a few extra million shares benefits the exchange, and by extension, benefits Nick.

The house of cards fell when there wasn't any more new money coming in, and no money from the "investments."

His ability to list the bonds on WSE is something independent of whether or not the original banking operation was a ponzi.

What has been noted is the massive conflict of interest here by permitting him to list investment products with incomplete prospecti, as he doesn't disclose shit about where he puts the money. But since he holds 35% of WSE's parent company, we imagine it afforded him special treatment.

WSE has nothing to do with his decision to convert the accounts, other than that a few extra million shares benefits the exchange, and by extension, benefits Nick.

Partially true from the evidence. The demand from the bank run also prevents any core business to provide further income, which immediately gives the appearance of the income only coming from "investments" ala ponzi style. It would be pretty hard to rule out possibilities, like that, and just settle for shallow ponzi scheme.

He didn't need to list it on any exchange at all.

I would disagree with this kind of regulation; the only necessary regulation is there, and that is for Nick to be precluded from buying any bonds for less than their face value.

You forget that GPB traded on WSE before the shell game. He just added a bunch more depositors to the list of GPB owners - data entry. I don't know what functionality you are thinking of.

The demand from the bank run left him with only two options: liquidate assets or get new money.

There is another poster here that argues that there is "ZERO" regulation.

Which is kinda true, because it doesn't prevent any other account from a trade less than L$1.

I have niether forgot nor am being ignorant to order of events you made so clear, and that there is more functionality added than just plain data entry.

Exactly. That seems to be quite clear and easy to figure out without open books. We know that any bank, even in real-life, would be unable to fulfill an immediate bank-run, especially when it is typical to lock-up invesments into ladder returns. That leaves only a percentage of liquidation that can be done immediately. It also leaves the next option, get more money. It appears, however, any attempt to get more money just led NP right into a ponzi scheme. Being that it is so clear, it is like entrapment.

NP is not the only one that created this situation.

WSE policy is a regulation of a sort, but it's not official.

Clearly I don't see it, so what exactly is it?

You see, the problem is that Nick was unwilling to do the right thing: stop taking deposits,

start liquidation

Dear accountholder,

Ginko Financial was established in December 2004 at a time when Second Life had less than 20,000 residents. As one of the strongest brands in Second Life we have seen the economy grow to many millions of residents and thousands choose Ginko Financial as their preferred financial services provider.

As you probably already know, Ginko Financial has experienced some challenges in these last couple of weeks. Following the ban on gambling in Second Life we began experiencing a wave of withdrawals from Ginko Financial. This led the funds we keep in reserve for day to day use to be exhausted, which evolved into a full blown panic depleting even our last line of cash reserves and resulting in the current situation, with about L$50,000,000 queued up for withdrawal. This situation is unsustainable, as we would be forced to sell off our assets at a
significant discount in order to honor such withdrawals, thus severely harming Ginko Financial's long term prospects and it's ability to ultimately honor all of it's obligations to accountholders.

We had some hope that calm would return to the public and we could resume normal operation, but that does not seem to be likely or even possible anymore. Drastic steps have to be taken in order to protect YOUR wealth while giving an escape valve to anyone who is in panic or simply in need. We are not going to vanish and the investments we made still exist and will not be sold off.

After considerable thought, we have concluded that the only way forward from this is to convert, compulsorily, all customer deposits into a tradeable debt security called Ginko Perpetual Bonds. These bonds, listed on the World Stock Exchange (www.wselive.com), will allow Ginko Financial to recover from recent events by removing all pressure from our cash reserves while providing accountholders with a way to cash out on an open market.

All accountholders will have an account automatically created on the World Stock Exchange (www.wselive.com). Customers will receive one bond with a face value of L$1 for every L$1 they have deposited in Ginko Financial. Each Ginko Perpetual Bond will yield L$0.03 or 3% of face value per quarter (every three months). Ginko Financial will be actively purchasing these bonds in order to help keep prices at as high a level as possible.

Ginko Financial will bounce back from this and if you stick with us, you wll not lose anything. If you must sell the bonds, then you must sell, but I advise against accepting low prices.

Regards,
Nicholas Portocarrero / Andre Sanchez

and distribute funds evenly.

And take note that WSE has nothing to do with any of this.

WSE is an accessory after the fact. That is not a conspirator. The origin of all the problems is Nick and his staff.

Because it is "not official," is that why Colette Meiji says, "Nicholas P operates under ZERO regulation."

Because it is "not official," is that why Colette Meiji says, "Nicholas P operates under ZERO regulation."

Look at the changes made, the whole bond device you now see on the website did not appear before. Where it used to say "IPO" it now says "IPO/BONDS." Where it used to calculate just IPO value, it now also calculates bond percentage. These two are just more of the obvious recent additions that I doubt is hard to notice.

I just tried to deposit $1 into the Ginko ATM. It gave it back to me, so it isn't taking deposits like you say.

Yes, there is a conflict of interest here. This is my concern. It is not a ponzi scheme, however.

There is already enough talk on the WSE group chat and in other related news that sums up that knowledge of these events were known more than just by NP, and from what we can call insiders. Consider the order of the events, the functionality had to exists in the WSE before this situation could ever be created.

If you want to call it a conspiracy, that is up to you.

However, you are not being forced to "cash out"???

I cashed out a long time ago when he got belligerent about what he was doing with my money [And others' money]. I got all my money's worth. As for forced bondholders... no, no one is being forced to cash out. He is putting the onus on you to time the market to get the most money back.