the SL Economy
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Mickey James
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
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08-16-2007 12:53
From: Yumi Murakami
Apart from that case, though, there is little correspondance with platform->upper and game->lower class. Some members of the "game class" live in a fully furnished mansions that they bought via US$ input. Some members of the "platform class" have no land at all, they build in public, friends', or companies' sandboxes. (One of the most well-known and profitable businesspeople on SL, Enabran Templar, only ever owned 512sqm of land.)
That's my point exactly though. Because people can add to their L$ by buying them, the lines between haves and have-nots *in the Second Life context* are largely erased. You can earn nothing through your in-game activities and still own a decent parcel of land a big house. If you take away that ability, if you tell me that in order to afford the land I have to create some viable income stream in-world, then SL suddenly becomes a job and not a pleasure. I do earn a bit in-world through selling things I make, but I operate that at a loss ... it costs me more to rent store space and advertise than I bring in. If I could not charge L$ purchases on my credit card, I'd be penniless in-world except for the stipend. But even apart from that, that change would make it necessary for anyone who wants in-world money to find a way to earn it, rather than just being able to relax and indulge in SL as a leisure activity if that's what they want to do. Now I understand your argument is that if people were limited to that level of income, the cost of things would fall to meet the forced-lower demand. To which I say, possibly ... but not for sure.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-16-2007 15:58
From: Mickey James Now I understand your argument is that if people were limited to that level of income, the cost of things would fall to meet the forced-lower demand. To which I say, possibly ... but not for sure.
Perhaps I wasn't clear - I was also arguing that this _wouldn't_ happen. What would happen is that items would be removed from sale as creators could no longer pay their tier from their sales.
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AWM Mars
Scarey Dude :¬)
Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,398
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08-17-2007 05:24
From: Mickey James Um ... you think this says you can pay 50 percent of your tier in L$? Because it doesn't. It says (read the second paragraph) they could but they DON'T accept payment in L$, but that if they did it could cut the supply of in-world money by more than half. I don't know how you extrapolated the reverse meanings of the quote from LL... I read it as it is written.. Although we currently do not accept L$ in lieu of land sale and maintenance fee payments, we could. Acceptance by Linden Lab of just one month of land sale and maintenance fees in L$ denominated payments could cut the in-world money supply by more than 50%. I'm reading, 'although we 'currently do not'....... 'we could. Acceptance by Linden Lab of just one month of land sale and maintenance fees in L$ denominated payments .... My point being, IF they did, that would be an acceptance that the L$ has some attached value to the current form of payment, the USD.
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Mickey James
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
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08-17-2007 06:30
From: AWM Mars I don't know how you extrapolated the reverse meanings of the quote from LL... I read it as it is written.. Although we currently do not accept L$ in lieu of land sale and maintenance fee payments, we could. Acceptance by Linden Lab of just one month of land sale and maintenance fees in L$ denominated payments could cut the in-world money supply by more than 50%. I'm reading, 'although we 'currently do not'....... 'we could. Acceptance by Linden Lab of just one month of land sale and maintenance fees in L$ denominated payments .... My point being, IF they did, that would be an acceptance that the L$ has some attached value to the current form of payment, the USD. Um no, AWM, what you originally said was "LL have announced that you can pay 50% of your teir in L$'s" ... Which they haven't. Or if they have, the text you quoted when asked for a source doesn't show it. There was no IF in your original post, and if you intended it, well, I can only respond to what you actually say. But let's consider it a misunderstanding now cleared up.
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AWM Mars
Scarey Dude :¬)
Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,398
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08-17-2007 07:31
From: Mickey James Um no, AWM, what you originally said was "LL have announced that you can pay 50% of your teir in L$'s" ... Which they haven't. Or if they have, the text you quoted when asked for a source doesn't show it. There was no IF in your original post, and if you intended it, well, I can only respond to what you actually say. But let's consider it a misunderstanding now cleared up. By that you completely ignore the statement made by LL as a whole? Or the fact that my point being that by their own statement, they acknowledge some currency value to the L$? Which IS what this post is about.. not some play on words... Lets let a few more have their say and opinion before you singularily put the matter to rest don't you think?
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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08-17-2007 08:58
You seem to have missed the main point LL was making there, which isn't that the L$ has a particular value, but rather that they feel it's in their interest to maintain a stable exchange rate by manipulating the supply. As an example of sinks as a hedge against inflation they stated that hypothetically, if they accepted 50% of tier payments in L$, they could effectively remove 50% of the money supply from circulation. The point was the creation of sinks to maintain the exchange rate and nothing more. Anyway, who cares? If the US government decides to regulate virtual currencies (which is highly unlikely) then we'll deal with that when it happens. Until then, none of us are LL's lawyers, and this entire argument is nothing but bleating and babbling in sheer speculation of what might be rather than what is. Since there are currently no laws regulating virtual currencies in MMOGs, Linden Lab is free to do what it wants with them and define the rules as they see fit. They own the sandbox and run the mint. It really doesn't matter if any of us agree with their stance or not. That's not an especially difficult concept to grasp.
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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08-17-2007 09:20
To me, the bombshell in that blog entry came immediately before the bit about paying tier with L$s, to wit: From: someone As population growth stabilizes, the use and development of Linden Dollar sinks will become more prominent. How 'bout that? Not "*If* population growth were to stabilize..." but "As [it does]." Seems like somewhat diminished expectations--or perhaps just a healthy grasp of reality.
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Svar Beckersted
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 783
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08-17-2007 09:20
From: Chip Midnight You seem to have missed the main point LL was making there, which isn't that the L$ has a particular value, but rather that they feel it's in their interest to maintain a stable exchange rate by manipulating the supply. As an example of sinks as a hedge against inflation they stated that hypothetically, if they accepted 50% of tier payments in L$, they could effectively remove 50% of the money supply from circulation. The point was the creation of sinks to maintain the exchange rate and nothing more. Anyway, who cares? If the US government decides to regulate virtual currencies (which is highly unlikely) then we'll deal with that when it happens. Until then, none of us are LL's lawyers, and this entire argument is nothing but bleating and babbling in sheer speculation of what might be rather than what is. Since there are currently no laws regulating virtual currencies in MMOGs, Linden Lab is free to do what it wants with them and define the rules as they see fit. They own the sandbox and run the mint. It really doesn't matter if any of us agree with their stance or not. That's not an especially difficult concept to grasp. Well said.
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Jamil Jannings
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 134
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08-18-2007 07:19
What value does the USD have again. L$ are based on the same standard that just about every currency in the RL world is on(nothing). our U.S government does not back our money up with a gold or silver standard any longer, so make no mistake about it, our money is just an idea that the general public buys into. If you take any currency from where it has perceived value to another counrty, what are you going to do with it put it on your counter top when you get home? Example: if i come back to the U.S from a trip to Jamaica with their money( which is worth wall paper) what am i to do with it. L$ have value only in SL, just like the ST.Lucia EC in St. Lucia cant be spent in the U.S or the Jamaican dollar for that matter.
Whatever the name of the currency being traded will only have value to a core demographic (countries, in this case SL ) more times that not. When that currency is taken abroad, no one will use it (it will lack value same as L$). There are more currencies that have poor value to the point that you would not convert it to another currency because it is worthless. Following this confusing statement, one can see that L$ have more in common with real world currency than one might think.
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Uvas Umarov
Phone Weasel Advocate
Join date: 8 Feb 2007
Posts: 622
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08-18-2007 07:56
US federal reserve notes are based on debt. They have no intrinsic value. The government maintains the illusion of value by accepting them for the payment of taxes. They are just little pieces of paper. The federal reserve has sent me various information on their operations. Some have been in the form of comic books to further insult my intelligence.  They say it costs them 2 cents to make a note. which is meaningless because they print the notes that pays for their printing costs. So that is a $.98 profit on every single dollar they print and a $999.98 profit on every hundred note they print. Not a bad markup.
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"On the other hand, if you are convinced that I spent all the money on a new sports car, then getting even 2.5% instead of 0% back would be quite a deal, wouldn't it?" ---ginko bank owner on his financial dealings
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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08-18-2007 08:16
From: Jamil Jannings Example: if i come back to the U.S from a trip to Jamaica with their money( which is worth wall paper) what am i to do with it. Exchange it, sell it on ebay.
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Jamil Jannings
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 134
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08-18-2007 08:43
Im suprised at how many people think that the USD has value. It costs a little more to print the USD than it does to buy and sell virtual money on the Lindex. I'm also celebrating my 100th post.
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