the SL Economy

Brenda, I'm on YOUR side.

LL either needs to say the L$ had value or it does not have value.

LL needs to either say it's real or it is not real.

Then YOU and everyone else can decide how they will deal with L$s.

Right now they are saying it's real when it suits them and they are saying it's monopoly money when it suits them.

If gambling is illegal then there is true value there because you need something of value for gambling to be gambling, so by outlawing gambling in SL they are calling the L$ REAL.

On the other hand they call it fake when ever it suits them.

They want it both ways. They need to decide.

And I think Gisela is right, LL very well may be breaking the law themselves. So LL really does have some decisions to make and those decisions DO affect everyone in SL.

I'm am just asking that they do what's right when making those decisions. Having it both ways is not doing what is right.

Pick one!

Mr. Peanut there is just opening a market where people with peanuts to sell can meet people hungry for peanuts and they can do business. Ever see Farmer's Markets along the roadside? Same thing.

Peanuts would NOT be "currency" or securities under that scenario. They would just be a commodity for sale.

I think a Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich sounds good now.

Bullshit. You're not on my side.

LL had to ban gambling in SL whether the L is real or not. LL are not lobbyists for a cause; they are businesspeople, and when the risk is too great, they get out, and wisely so. It is obvious they put this off as long as possible. No gratitude from you for that!

Everything else you can come up with just sounds like an excuse for more manipulative revenge.

Too many people rely on SL, not just to make a living, but also to carry on long-distance friendships and all kinds of RL-related activities. These people also count, and not just the kasino owners. LL has to keep the game afloat until open source shows up, and this is not an enviable position to be in.

If you want revenge, go after the politicians who set this situation up. To attack LL instead, or the residents by creating an argument that the L is illegal, is weak.

Bullshit to you.

If LL did not run the LindenX they would not have had to ban gambling because THEY, not ME, would not have been doing anything wrong.

What you don't get is gambling is not against the law. Running a the LindenX to fund gambling IS. And in fact without the LindenX it is NOT gambling even.

LL should have never been in the business of running the LindenX to begin with and more then likely they should get out of that business now.

To add insult to injury they treat thier customers like shit whom are doing nothing wrong to save their own ass.

I don't call faul for them saving thier ass, we all want SL with or without gambling. I call faul in the WAY they saved thier ass.

They had choices, they chose to BURN thier customers to save thier ass.

I agree with you they had to do something to save thier ass ... we all want SL to survive. What they did NOT have to do was BURN thier customers to save thier ass.

It was just the easiest way for them to do it so that's what they did.

THEY are the ones doing something wrong. I have the right to call faul.

I understand you are what? Defending LL because you want SL to survive? Well GUESS WHAT? I want SL to survive too. And one thing that needs to be decided for that survival is if the L$ is real or not and then that will help to decide on what SL actually becomes. But they can NOT have it both ways or we all lose..

LL does NOT have to burn it's customers to save it's ass this is just something they choose to do.

Or I guess you want a SL where the L$ is sometimes real and the L$ is sometimes fake and the determination of which way it falls all depends on what mess LL has to get out of.

In that world anything YOU do can be viewed in two different lights and YOU do not get to choose which light that is ... LL does ... and LL will do what ever is best NOT for SL but what ever is best for LL so you choose to live in a world with double standards and false positives and you choose to live in a world where the customers, the residents and the community of SL are subject to being TRASHED when they have done nothing wrong but that is justified because anything is justified so LL can continue down what ever path it feels is right for LL regarless of who they trash on the way.

You seem to feel what ever is best for LL is best for SL. Well it isn't.

They can say real here and fake there and real here and fake there.

You want to live in a SL where they can change the rules on a whim, drag you out and toss you down. And this is all justifiable because it is saving LL's ass.

Well by all means let's save LL's ass, that insures LL is safe.

That does NOT insure SL is safe.

With baffoons at the controls calling things arbitrarily real here fake there real here fake there you will see a train wreck and in the end LL will be safe lots of people will get burned but SL will die

So make the distinction in your mind LL is not SL.

Whom/What is it you are defending?

If you are defending SL then open your freaking eyes. If you are defending LL then you are defending two faced double talking cheats whom have no respect for the common resident of this "beautiful world" they created.

Really without my casino I am so bored I have nothing else to do but sit here and trash Linden Labs until I feel I've avenged myself enough because I am so upset that gambling is banned ... whaaaaa whaaaaa whaaaa freakin whaaaaaa..


Nope Brenda! that is not me. I never posted a thing until I was treated the way I was and I could care less about gambling. That is dead. You could replace that with creating hair.

Hello here is a world you can create and sell hair in, please join in and contribute.
Oh wow you created hair and bought a bunch if islands to sell your hair off of how nice.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY SELLING HAIR IN SL IS AGAINST THE LAW (we have to save our ass you see because we are doing something against the law and we figured the best way to save our ass is to screw hair sellers. We will give them no apology what so ever, in fact we will treat them like S#)*%T just to prove a point)

Oh by the way you are stuck with the islands we sold you to sell hair on for which not only was acceptable to us but actually incouraged. We don't want them back and we don't care if you don't know what to do with them ... go sell them for half price!

Oh and rent is due, please pay up.

We don't care if it's hair or sex or gambling or tiddly winks ... what ever IT was we suddenly found out we were doing something wrong so all you people in the hair bussines are SOL.

Oh yeah we may have put the energy into doing this some other way but nah ... this is so easy we'll just push you down and kick you while you're down. After all it's our ass ... we're gunna save it. YOU DON'T COUNT.

Guess what Brenda ... YOU DON'T COUNT EITHER ... if they had to save thier ass and you were in the way they wouldn't even consider walking around EVEN IF they could still save thier ass by doing that ... YOU DON'T COUNT ... they will walk all over you.

Now Brenda, that is the type of thing that saves LL and keeps LL safe but I assure you that is NOT the type of thing that saves SL and keeps SL safe.

Those types of actions are the nails in the coffin for SL. So you just smile and sit there and preach about protecting LL at all cost, but I tell you this LL is not SL and the things LL is doing RIGHT NOW are NOT good for SL.

These things are good for LL, for SL they are nails in the coffin.

Er .. Chilly, the exchange doesn't "fund gambling." That has nothing to do with anything.

I'll say this again because you just aren't hearing:

1 The LAW forbids CREDIT CARD COMPANIES from issuing payments to gambling sites.

2. That means that if a credit card company decides that Second Life has enough gambling in it to qualify, they can stop making payments. If they even decide that it's possible and choose to not take the risk of running afoul of the law, they can do that.

3. Whether or not SL casinos would really fit the legal definition of a gambling site would not matter; if credit card companies, being risk-averse as they are, chose to err on the side of caution, many SL members would suddenly be unable to pay LL, and SL most likely would fail.

4. None of this has a thing to do with Lindex.

I do agree they handled it badly with regard to those like yo who'd invested a lot in building a casino business. But if it's a choice between losing casinos and losing all of Second Life, then, bye-bye casinos.

LLABS is known for this in many Aspects of the game. When your nolonger needed by LLABS they dump you. But not until they use you and your abilities and resources! And if you don`t go away they do everything in their power to get rid of you ( from within LLABS ranks ).

How many times have you read sad stories of LLABS proventing people from making a living on sl? Broken dream is plently on sl. They lead you to believe in dreams then they step on them. YOU TOO CAN BE A LINDEN! Yea right! How many time have I heard people upset because they have the skills and abilities but they didnt get called. Every Mentor dreams of one day to be Linden, But the reality is you don`t have a chance. But LLABS leads you to believe its a possiblity. Thats how they get so many people to join.

I like reflecing back to 2005 era when GAMING WAS THE THING. and SL promoted gambling. I said this before........Remeber the Badly done PR for gameing that had a person on the front page of SecondLife web site. saying " I WON BIG ON SECOND LIFE" Well as many of you people know it was a PR stunt by LLABS. The person never won that much cash, it was his own that LLABS setup for him to win. But infact it was setup to say " HEY you can gambling and make money here".

I just love the way they went about how trigger defenceless gambling addicts to come on sl just to use their credit card and Pay Pale to gamble 1,000.00 of real dollars.

I notice Usagi has been here since 2004. I also notice a lot of the flamers are noobs and at least the old timers will lend an ear. That is because they have been around and have seen things you will never see. Just fly around world and find some people who have been around for years and ask them honestly about how Linden Labs uses it's community and then throws them away.

You will find many stories. You all that are new here don't know those war stories. Go ask around and find them out.

Linden Labs has been up to this type of treatment for years. You almost have to be around long enough to get a taste for it and if you invest yourslef enough you might even get a taste of it.

Ask the old timers, the forums are not the only source of informaiton. You will find out this is bussiness as usual, this is how Linden Labs operates.

It's sad, I can only hope some will have open minds and open eyes. Linden Labs really needs to learn how to do what is right now and then, they are forever doing what is so wrong.

LL needs a concience.

I have been right there with Chilly for over 2 years helping him build up what I will say one of the best places SL will have ever had...I found it very easy to work side by side with because of how he cared not just for SL but for all that played the game...He always stated that his Club/Casino was for all of SL and knowing that his Club/Casino put approx 5000 real USD back into the SL Economy per 'MONTH'...he truely did it for ALL of SL.

I don't think you get it...LL did many wrong...and any 'HONEST' man would see this.

I have been a paying customer and land owner for almost 3 years since my start of playing the game..Im selling my land and im going to basic because I cannot feel good about myself to feed their pockets....I cannot pay someone something when I do no longer believe in what they are doing.

My SL days will be played free and only to socialize with those that I have grown to enjoy.

All of the frustrations that people are having now have gone past the Gambling Issue and all I have to say about it is when you have 'NO INTEGRITY' and have let go of your beginning dreams and treat people poorly....you really do deserve everything you get!


Approx 5000 REAL USD A MONTH...now thats all gone without even a TY for what you did.

I remeber Chilly when he started his gambling gaming location. he started out with a few one arm machines ( has times changed ) He moved from a part sim to whole mainland to 4 corner sim setup Then he moved to island(s) He buildt a pretty ad relaxing location to just relax and enjoy.........But before he worked as dancer. YES EVEN CHILLY DID . But really Before he reached the level of his islands he bought and used to supply lindens to people to win on SL to win on sl. ( did you hear LLABS bitching then? NFC). He was always thinking about how to so fun and enterain his members. I remeber attending a few events he held, he always was kind and repectful to others. Before you start saying Usagi is RAH RAH Chilly and gambling DON`T! because i don`t do that on sl ( just like rl ). Chilly induced the spread of gambling on sl. Helping new and would be owners startup business within sl. I do feel sorry for Chilly he was always helping others on sl.

I like to add to this a little memory i had. I remeber a long time friend on sl that now works for counting sheep com. He once told me " My dream is to win the game and then have them pay men over 500.00 a months just to play this game". Well this person was refering to making Linden ( at that time i did not know what he was refering too). LLABs just keep leading and leading on people to believe the had a future in the ranks. But really it was all a VR lie.

Usagi

LOL so true.

It`s not going away.

Just have to remove all doubt! No question that L$ has real value. LL is saying themselves here:

http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/08/14/the-second-life-economy/#more-1144

Just for the record In my 1 year in SL I have seen NO ONE that truly cares for the whole of SL or has put as much RL $ into SL as Chilly Charlton. I state here as I have in other posts that if not for the heart and Generosity of Babyblues Boffin and Chilly Charlton I wouldnt have an SL! TY Again you two. LONG LIVE EXTREME!!!

So now they made it real:

It is a virtual medium of exchange that has real-world value associated with its ability to be traded with others, for real-world currency.

As for that you that you equoted..some people just don`t know what is occuring. All they do is "well mama said this so there" well then again some people just don`t group up. Its nice to live in a simple world were all is safe and happy. Kids never growup.........

As for your remarks about Chilly there is no person in the gambling industry like Him ( he was the best ).......Its just too bad the scum and low lives lived in his casinos cause problems for other at times......

My one in-world encounter with Chilly was positive. One of his machines took my money and didn't allow me to play, and he refunded my money with no hesitation or questions.

So sure, he's a nice guy. And sure, it sucks that his business model got invalidated by a policy change.

But: He chose to build a business based on an activity that is always under close scrutiny. And he chose to not heed the warning that came when gamblin ads were banned six months. And now he is raving all over the forum about how mean and unfair LL is, as if they did it just to persecute him.

He lost a lot, LL handled it badly and it sucks, yes.

What more can anybody say? LL didn't do this on a whim, and they aren't going to change their minds, seeing as there is a new law now in effect that wasn't a few weeks ago, that could lead to credit card companies no longer paying them if they are perceived as offering gambling online.

So yeah, it sucks. But it is. Life isn't always fair.

You guys derailed this thread pretty good. Reading over page after page of legal debate on whether the L$ counts as currency completely demolished my brain and left it nothing more than a puddle of gray goop all over my table.

I, personally, think that Collette and Gisela are right. Currently L$ is viewed as a product, and not a currency; but I can see someone using the law to slam LL if they wanted.

As for what I think the economy needs: Nothing much. Stablity for SL itself, and maybe a HUD attachment to show the fluctuations of the L$'s value.

Frankly speaking many for the factors are leading to the down turn. That many have spoken about. Its not as simple as you think. Chilly just pointed out what is wrong with the SL would as it is today. Alot of LLABS created problems and related lies hasnt help things these days.

Well well well.... for all those screaming from the rooftops about how L$ aren't real currency, eat your words... LL have now said it is, just like the rest of us knew. Read the blogs.

Oh, that is unless they are taking the 50% tier each month paid in L$ in lieu of USD and are now paying their staff and bills, 50% in L$...... perhaps they have done a deal and swapping L$ for luncheon vouchers, or those Chuckie Cheese tokens....

Enjoy

Whether or not LL makes a profit off L$, and how they use that profit, is moot. That L$ is in-game currency is also moot. The question becomes whether or not L$ fits the legal definition of currency, as put forward by the American Gov't. If the gov't, as it so far has, decides that LL is not creating its own currency with L$, then L$ does not fall under the category of "currency" by legal standards. If the gov't at some point decides that L$ meets teh standards for currency, then currency it shall be.

Ok we are living in year 2003 NOT!