the SL Economy

Hi Chip! Love your work =c)

The LindeX allowed SL residents to buy L$ with the billing info they already had on file with LL, without the need to have a PayPal account, or sign up with a third party service (or find out that such a thing existed in the first place). It was an entirely logical thing for LL to do. Had GOM not folded it very likely would have remained the most popular and successful exchange. What other SL business folds the moment a competing business comes along? The fact that LL was the competing business doesn't make any difference in my opinion, and LL was under no obligation to try to work with GOM, which they did. I really liked GOM and would have continued to use it, as I'm sure many (if not most) of their existing customers would have.

Thanks Chilly

As far as I have been able to work out from those threads and my rather dim memories of the time..

GOM originally served as the standard way of trading L$. In fact, there was a command in the standard user interface (Help -> Buy and Sell L$...) which took you to a link page covering GOM, plus two other exchanges: IGE, and Anshe Chung.

(This is also way back when there was a View -> Leaderboards menu option to display the high score tables. Yes, you did read that correctly. No, I'm not joking.)

However.. IGE and Anshe weren't really the same as GOM. They were L$ _investors_. In other words, if you wanted to sell L$ via IGE or Anshe, you wouldn't be matched with a buyer; IGE/Anshe _themselves_ would buy them with the aim of selling them higher later on - thus taking a risk but hopefully making a profit. Whereas GOM was, well, just like LindeX is now: it would display the sale on their website for someone else to buy if they wanted.

Now.. apparantly, LL wanted to make it easier for new users to buy L$, so they decided to implement a currency exchange system within SL. This caused a lot of furore because it was percieved as LL displacing a resident business.

Apparantly at some point there was going to be a public API, where exchanges could bid to be the people from whom the L$ was bought when the user clicked on the "buy L$" button on their user interface. The problem was, it depended on the currency exchange quoting a flat price for L$, so it would have been OK for IGE and Anshe who managed their own funds, but GOM would have had trouble dealing with it. (If someone connected to GOM and sold L$5000 at $300, GOM could only communicate to SL that it was now selling L$ for L$300. If the buyer wanted more than L$5000 then there was no way for GOM to say that they didn't have that many at that price. This meant that it _couldn't_ say it was selling at L$300, it would have to say some other amount, which might not be competitive.. and if its predictions were wrong, it could lose money.)

Then LL announced they were going to create their own exchange.

GOM announced they were closing down - giving only 4 days notice. People considering what would happen if it was impossible to cash out in SL? IT HAPPENED. Everyone rushed to sell their L$ and the L$ exchange rate went through the floor.

Then, because of the falling L$, IGE immediately sold off their entire stock of L$... onto GOM. As you can probably guess, that did _wonders_ for the exchange rate.

Shortly after, LindeX came online. The initial exchange rate for L$ was something around L$300 or even higher. Since then, many economic changes were made to create the L$266 rate.

And since then, for the Lindens to compete with a resident business has been called "GOMming".

Incidentally, for the Lindens to _embrace_ a resident business was for a long while called "FICcing" or "InfoNetting".

Nobody seems to be quite sure what they're actually _supposed_ to do.

LL also began cutting back on sources of L dollars and then began selling newly printed L dollars on the LindenX. The "new source".

Let's not forget about that.

And if I do remember correctly this is something they had originally stated they would never do.

But they changed thier mind.

Which resulted in an exchange rate that's stayed remarkably steady ever since, and has been a boon to people who rely on cashing out L$ to pay tier and other bills. Those bastards!

If not for the LindenX LL wouldn't be under any preassure (well not as much) from payment processing facilities (credit card companies and PayPal) to regulate the use of L dollars in game.

Because until LL started printing selling and buyin L dollars they truly were units of monopoly money.

Until LL became involved in this activity the L dollar didn't have any intrinsic value.

LL made the linden dollar real, and now all that follows for having done that will play out.

How do you know this?

This is Pure Speculation on you and Gisella's part

I realize it's a popular pasttime to paint LL as some kind of evil empire, but I'm not sure what the point is since we all benefit from easier exchanges, a stable exchange rate, and the ability to exchange at all.

While I thought it basically unfair what happend to GOM - I also didnt know the sums of money involved, nor what GOM was worth.

So I had no idea whether it was a fair offer or not. They did offer though. I also remember GOM being unprofessional and contributing to some chaos at the time.

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Reguardless,

LindenX is Way easier for the majority of residents than GOM was. Its a functionality and ease of use which I am sure was NEEDED to sustain the growth of SL that has been happening for over a year.

Back when it was 2500 online we didnt need a built in exchange. Now that its 40.000+ it would be hard to live without.

Can anyone do anything but speculate when LL does what they do and doesn't say why?

I can read between the lines. The forums are open to the Lindes as well. Although they don't read the forums but even if they did I doubt they would say anything more then

"it was a bussiness decision"

Believe me LL fought to keep the linden dollar fake they are doing things now they really do not want to do but it's because of what they've done in the past that they find themselves in the position they are in now.

I doubt a Linden would even reply to this forum, they have closed down as much of forums as they can and have replaced it with a blog which is a one way communications system ... and no it's not two way, they turn comments on and off at will and many times they screen the posted comments not even allowing what they don't want to make it to your web browser through.

They've done what they can to kill the forums, you have no clue this is a skeleton that's left, I'm surprised there are even forums at all.

I can tell you this, when asked directly they say they will get back to you and then you won't hear a thing for a week

Try it

And when they do get back to you their answers to what ever your questions were will be even less informative then what you already knew.

They talk out of both sides of thier mouth and never say a thing, and THAT is NOT speculation.

The real tradgedy of all this is the way they treat thier customers, not only in this topic but in many areas of concern throught SL.

LL's customer service is worse then the phone company. We are not a community to them we are a money making machine to them and every move they make is for thier own benifit.

And they have every right to, they are a business however and that's what businesses are in the business of doing, making money.

But to Lie and cheat your customers along the way. THAT I do not understand.

So yeah they are in the business of making money. And they're getting really good at it, they are actually printing it now!

Yep, completely agree with you there

I don't recall yourself or Gisela complaining about the L$ having value or calling for the Lindex to be shutdown before the gambling ban.

Of course LL are in the business of making money and it greatly aids that business if other people are doing the same.

Hehe you beat me to it!

"That company is in business to make money! How evil!"

Chip they made money real.

We do not ALL benifit from that.

The implecations of that may never affect you. I don't know and I hope they don't.

How would you like it if they invited you in to make clothing and you poured your time and resources into doing just that.

How would you like it if over the years you bought 4 sims to sell your clothing out of and one day LL said AFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY you can no longer sell anything you make!

How would you like it if they then said oh and F-you you can keep your sims and you owe us rent.

How would you like it if they would not answer questions from you through concierge or a ticketing system or direct contact?

It's so funny that the day before you were just another developer in SL and the next day you are an outlaw.

How would you like it to find out this is all because LL was doing something wrong and you weren't?

How would you like it if you looked back and seen they did this to others over and over again and realized you sat and watched because it didn't affect you?

They lied.

They made money real and they covered their ass and without even an apology gave some of thier most dedicated residents the shaft and believe me chip if they had to do it to you for WHAT EVER REASON they wouldn't even blink.

Gisela is concentrating on what they are doing that is not legal.

I am concentrating on what they are doing that is not RIGHT.

And when you look at thier history you will over and over they continue to fail at doing what is right.

Lieing and cheating and treating customers like S)*%T is not right.

My islands are rented and I may even buy more. For now I have figured my way out of this but I didn't chose to be a land lord ... LL can CARE LESS all they know is they sold land and changed the rules and told me screw you.

That is how LL operates.

This is not "your world your imagination" that is a lie.

The problems with the linden dollar that are here now are a direct result of LL doing what they said they would not do but they did it anyway.

They lie.

That is why I truly say thier motto should be *BE EVIL* ... at least that is not a lie.

They state in thier TOS that Ls have no value and then they put into place policies as if the L does.

They can not have it both ways, but they are having it both ways.

They have it one way when it's convenient to them and they have it the other way when it's not and they talk out of both sides of thier mouth lieing to us all.

I don't know if this will ever reach into the debths of digital clothes Chip, but it could.

It very likely will make it's way into Sex, because the L$ is now real. A sure way to keep it away from clothes and such would be to let LL know we don't want thier LindenX ... or rather try standing up BEFORE it is you that's affected.

Call a spade a spade. LL made the linden real and the only one doing anything wrong here was them but they choose to punish everyone else to save thier own ass.

They will do it again.

Yes I'm sure the Lindex was perfectly fine while they were cashing out their profits.

I have to go and take a stand by logging in and buying my usual 10,000 Lindens on the Lindex.

I will concede they acted shamefully in the way they implemented this plan, without and definitive notice.

Yes I am so guilty of that and I have said so more then once. I'm inviting you to not be guilty of that.

But go on and defend LL and thier evil lying ways because up to this point LL only gives you things you want ... there is plenty of room for you here once you've been burned.

They have not cheated you yet.

Go on and spend three years of your life developing content for them which they tell you they desire and they approve of and they even WANT you to do and then let them smash you the instant they think something might not be all that cozy for thier world and thier imagination. Without so much as an apology ... and actually having thier hand out. They will slam you right the hell out of it. Leave you in the cold and say "GOOD LUCK ... WHEW WE DODGED A BULLET OVER HERE SORRY YOU ARE A CASUALTY THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DID UP TILL NOW WE DON'T NEED YOU ANY MORE"

And then see how you feel when you figure out it is all thier doing and thier evil ways that got them where they are in the first place.

They will kick your ass on the way out as if YOU didn't do something they invited you to do.

So I am only letting you know this IS who Linden Labs is. This IS how they operate. Keep playing thier game, I am but never forget who you are playing with.

They can CARE LESS ... yes Chip ... even about YOU .. they don't give a dam. They'll trash you the instant it seems like the right thing to do for them. No matter what the reason.

Chilly, direct your ire where it belongs, at the US government and the CC companies who have been giving people a hard time with SL related transactions. Then when you're done doing that, get over it. There's nothing LL can do about it so what's the point of going on and on about it or trying to justify or rationalize whatever it is you're trying to justify and rationalize, even though it can't possibly change anything? If the US goverment decides tomorrow that depicting nudity in videogames or virtual worlds is illegal and CC companies can refuse to process transactions for companies they suspect of violating that new law I'll be in the same boat you are, and I won't think LL is the enemy. I'll be glad I got to enjoy my business while it lasted. I won't expect an apology from LL, or a refund, or anything else. They have to do what they have to do to stay in business, and the gambling ban was well foreshadowed when they banned any advertising of gambling. But, rather than do the sensible thing and find something else to do, Casino owners just became Kasino owners instead. I feel for you, truly I do, but you have to take responsibility for your own choices and their consequences when they turn around and bite you in the ass. It's not LL's fault that they had to take this step to protect their business. What else would you have them do? Doing business of any kind in SL is extremely high risk. It could all go up in smoke tomorrow, or the next day, or the day after that. It's the nature of the beast.

To you, and Chilly:

Once you got going with this over the top B.S. and your I'm-here-to-save-you posture, did you expect anyone to take the rest of what you are saying seriously?

It's pure propaganda.

Pontificating about an area of law, that is in such a half-baked state of flux as that around virtual worlds, makes no sense.

You're pissed off that gambling is banned. So admit it, and stop trying to whitewash it with self-serving messiah crap. Trying to make a convincing argument that L is illegal does not benefit any of us. Whose side are you on, or is it all about the revenge?

No I am not pissed off that gambling is banned I am pissed off at the treatment Linden Labs has given to those whom gave them a lot.

I can tell you this ... I did not make a single forums post until LL would not reply to ANY of my communications with them for 7 days.

I can tell you this as well I would have been happy for them to buy back the islands I bought and would have welcomed an "I'm sorry" from them and MAYBE an explenation besides "this was a business decision"

The truth be told ... a little tiny bit of doing "what is right" on thier part and I would have never made a single post.

I AM PISSED AT HOW LINDEN LABS TREATS IT'S CUSTOMERS.

So get that straight.

I actually look forward to doing something new in SL the casino thing was getting old.

Now I'm pissed enough to make sure you all know who they are and how they operate. Because I am telling no lies here. This is all the truth.

This is who they are and how they operate. Go on and let them keep being that way. Go on and let them keep being evil.

Gisela has pointed out to me what "this was a business decision" most likely REALLY means.

And to add insult to injury not only am I treated like crap, lied to and cheated but come to find out the real reasons for why the linden dollar is now REAL is because once again of thier "evil" ways.

They had to have thier LindenX.

so yeah I'm pissed, I wouldn't have been pissed. It's not about gambling, that is dead. For me it's about how LL treats it's customers.

They will trash you in an instant, don't be fooled you are nothing but a means to an end for them and when they are done with you they will throw you away.

Now if they are doing something against the law by creating an ileagle currency then I of course am more then happy to jump on that band wagon and ask for them to DO WHAT IS RIGHT.

Becuase yes I am pissed off who wouldn't be.

Being lied to cheated and treated badly usually does piss people off.

Chilly, why not think of something else to do with your islands? Make a nice rental community or something. Why is having to change your plan the end of the world? LL is never going to buy your islands back from you, nor should they. Everyone has the same chance of their idea not working out or not being profitable. Should everyone who tries something that doesn't work out, for whatever reason, be entitled to a refund? That would be a bit absurd, don't you think? If you invested in tons of server space for a big porn site and it suddenly became illegal, would you expect your ISP to give you a refund? I'll guess that you wouldn't, so why should LL?

Well Chip you are right. I will continue to play in this game called Second Life no matter how badly the creators of it treat thier customers, but you are wrong in one sense. I will call them out for what they do when they do it.

The only laws that were being broken were being broken by Linden Labs.

They lie about thier vision and they lie or avoid communicating thier resons for actions because to be quite honest with you if they told the truth about why they did the things they did then people would see them for what they really are.

I'm so glad they haven't treated you badly yet Chip you must still be doing things that helps thier goals. But believe me they wouldn't think twice about swatting you away if you got in the way of thier world and thier imagination.

Just know who it is you're playing with. Liars and cheats.

I will do something else in SL don't you worry about that I love SL, I will however watch my back when it comes to Linden Labs ... there is no more love left for them.

My islands are rented and I'm thinking about buying more Chip. I'll survive but NO THANKS to LL.

I'm not mad at the gambling ban, I'm sad about that. That horse is dead. I'm mad at Linden Labs and really I wish they would learn to start treating the people in the community with respect and think about how things affect us a little more then just thinking about themselves.

They are losing thier vison I'd like them to see an eye doctor.

They could have done lots of things a lot more gracefully then they did.

I can only hope they will improve, because untill there is something better then SL I will stay in SL. It truly is a wonderful creation.

All that being said, it's not right to do something wrong and then trash someone else to get out of it. That is what *BE EVIL* is all about. LL needs to start doing the right thing or all they will have is a glorified CAD program that no one wants to play in because the gods in there suck.

I do think LL could have handled it a bit more gracefully, but they didn't ban anyone. Everyone was given the chance to pull down their stuff and find something else to do with their land. No assets were siezed, and people who are having slot machines and things returned or deleted now have had a quite a while to take care of it themselves. I think that's all pretty fair, even if they should have banned it originally instead of just banning the advertising, but can't that be read as them trying to let people still do what they wanted and not banning it until they felt they had no choice? Direct that anger to something productive. I wish you much success in whatever you end up doing with your islands

Thanks Chip =c)