the SL Economy

What do you think would most help the economy in Second Life?

Simple question, your opinion,
please.

A different government in the United States.

I'll second that!

Land prices are deflating and that is a good way to cause a depression. It happened in 1929-1939 because buyers of land knew they could get it cheaper if they waited so they did. I think we are seeing the same thing in SL. As long as land is going down people will wait. As long as LL keeps flooding the market with new sims the problem will just get worse. LL needs to stop bringing new sims to auction and let land prices stablilize.

um a SL that works. I have yet to have any sales while SL is in a "is it safe to buy stuff" state...

GOD! Stop blamming the U.S. because the people who run SL have their heads up their crapper. I think there is alot more to this ban then meets the eye and I think the staff is just using the law as a cop-out. The way I see it think about this for a sec...

SL does not answer most people anymore that have questions and so on... When is the last time you found a Linden online? Their main focus is now on the big boys. See SL is growing up and we are no longer needed or so they think. They prove this more and more everyday. They want to turn SL into a huge business product. In order to do that, they can have the gambling and guess whats going to be next! Yep the sex business. Watch and see....

They could give 2 cents about the people in SL at this point. They prove each and everyday now.

I think it would help a great deal if people stopped worrying too much about the economy, and a lot less about "profit", and more about having fun instead.

Broccoli

You pay my tier fees and I'll have fun

It goes hand in hand in my opinion. If someone enjoys creating clothing, they sell those items and reinvest in the world via rentals or land ownership but somewhere along the way they want to be able to pay their bills.

Above say $15 a month to play, it starts getting an expensive experience compared to other online activities. People aren't going to have fun here if they have to shell out big bucks just to have fun.

The economy is crucial to the experience here for a lot of people and I'm talking about content creators and people who make pretty things as well as those who rent and own land.

Second that! Without some semblance of stability, who wants to become a Premium member? Without new Premium members, who's gonna buy all that land?

Also: A workable in-world financial services industry with RL transparency, accountability, and oversight. The existing ones can stay around and run unregulated (hey, who says we can't have gambling? ), but some RL bank willing to stake their brand on dealing fairly with residents in-world would be a welcome addition.

If gambling was THAT much of a foundation block that it's removal is causing the entire SL economy to crumble, then the SL economy isn't worth a crap to begin with. How about the ability to log in consistently, the ability to rez consistently, the abilty to TP consistently, buy lindens, PAY your bills, get decent customer service, truthful communication, and so on. Stop blaming Governments for SL's problems.

All the Gambling entrpeneurs out there. You were sucessful, business people? Then find another business venture. During prohibition, Breweries here stayed in business by making all kinds of things, form Soda Pop and Ice Cream, to manufufacturing of various types. Stop whining and use your Imaginations.

What will be the next SL problem blamed The Government?

How about a IPO offering on a real life Stock exchange in London, so we can appease all the angry gamblers and pay for the moving of all the servers to a place where regulation exists.

I would definitely invest in Linden Labs, even though SL gives us a lot of headaches sometimes, i see an amazing amount of potential in this game we call Secondlife and i would be willing to put my money where my mouth is (well fingers i guess).

I agree, and see these as being the bigger issues as well. With the grid as borked as it has been lately (many people experiencing regular inventory loss due to the rez bug, not being able to move due to TP problems, Lindex regularly down, etc.) it really does sap one's interest in even logging into SL, never mind the idea of investing a substantial amount of RL cash into the platform. I think these are the more significant reasons as to why we see fewer people wanting to invest in land, which of course has a trickling impact on the economy -- why spend 1600-2500 USD on land when half of the time anything you try to build on it will disappear from your inventory, things you try to buy and rez on it do the same thing, and you can't travel anywhere from it? It's just these infrastructure issues that are causing people to say "hey, there's no way I'm investing that much real money if the thing is this creaky". And to me that makes perfect sense, to be honest.

American Credit Cards still wouldnt Pay LL ...

Thats why moving the servers is really not a workable solution as long as LL = SL = all one internet "site"

But lindens aren't used strictly for gambling, you can buy clothes, land, buildings etc.

Surely there must be someway we can allow Americans to buy lindens but not be able to gamble with them, then all the Non-Americans can stop complaining about not being able to gamble.

Anyway from what I've seen TP'ing around, gambling isn't going anywhere anytime soon, its just going to become more complex and skill-based.

I'm still waiting for someone to start a damn chess league, i would love to play chess in SL, i think it would be awesome.

Thirded!

Get all the bugs out and people won't be afraid to buy stuff for fear of losing it to a darn glitch.

After that, LL comming into the Grid instead of just sitting in their offices. Force them to do most of their work through their avatars in-world so they can actually SEE what the rest of us deal with. I think a lot of Lindens have lost sight of that aspect.

~Jessy

Ohh sure, thats cool then.

They can just use their awesome persuasion skills with all the CC companies and banks that issue them, and convince them to risk federal investigation over making payments to a suspected gambling site.

CC companies like taking risks like that.

Ok then, so no gambling at all, fair enough, so they can list in New York instead of London and not have to worry about moving.

I don't really mind.

I still want to play chess for lindens though.

So can someone please start a chess league, i can guarantee you at least one customer!!!

My CC company (which happens to be my local bank) will do exactly what I tell them to do. If they do not, I sue them for theft and embezellment, since I place in RL USD into the account.

If the bank feels my CC is being illegaly used, they are free (and required) to report my activities to the authorities. They do not, however, have the right to decided who I pay with the CC.

Fortunately, I have a bank that has a brain and I don't need to get into strongarm tactics like this. When LL moved their banking location, it changed the electronic routing of the CC information. My bank flagged the charge, put a short term "hold for verification" on the transaction, then phoned me direct, wanting to ensure this was meant and not a "theft" of the CC info.

Upon my acknowlegement over the phone, the bank allowed the pending CC transaction to complete. I went to the bank and had to sign one paper to fully autorize further transactions to that routing and all is good.

CC companies and Banks only start to get "wierd" when they don't know what's going on. In my specific case, my CC in question is ONLY used for LL. This is to prevent any misuse of CC information over the internet, or due to lack of security on LL's part. (anyone remember the fiasco a while back on that?)

~Jessy

Well, We can fix that problem and about 90% of the load issues at the same time. It's a little trick we used pre WW1and WW2. Isolationism. Just cut the login ips to and from any country not our own. Simplicity in action. Sure you say, in SL the majority is outside the US! Yeah, letting in hordes of the unwashed has always led to problems without a few checks and balances. Perhaps we should make yall take some kind of pledge er something. Like. "I Paco Sanchez Rameriez Guadalupe do hereby pledge I will not complain about no longer being able to gamble in Secondlife and I will not upload any Brazillian,German,Dutch Kiddyporn onto the grid then get my depends in a bunch because for some odd reason those fools at Linden Lab have the unmitigated audacity to ban my third alt of the week amen" I think we can weed out most of the chaff this way. Or at least cut the consec logins down. Or at least piss off a whole bunch of 3rd world players and Europeans. Thats always good for a laugh. And at the end of the day it's not really about money, or fun. It's being able to laugh at other people and feel better about ourselves having done so.

The Block on Credit Card payments to Gambling Sites is now Mandatory.

Glad your bank is not insane, but there is a problem with your argument here. The new law that the gambling ban is a response to has nothing to do with what YOU may do. It is not a law saying you cannot gamble online. The law says that a credit card provider cannot issue payments to online gambling sites.

That means the bank would not be reporting you, if they decided that Second Life has enough gambling going on to potentially fall under the law. It means they themselves could potentially be criminally liable.

Good luck convincing them that they have to risk legal action because you have a checking account there.

THIS is what Linden Lab is trying to avoid with the ban, and I am not sure why some people seem to be having trouble grasping the concept (not you, Jessica, I'm referring to other comments I've heard in-world and seen elsewhere.) If they are deemed to be a gambling site, fairly or not, the credit card companies CANNOT legally issue payments to them, any payments at all. If the credit card companies cannot issue payments, SL disappears.

It is not a moral crusade. It is not sanitization of the grid for the corporates. It is not an arbitrary whim. It is an absolutely rational and reasonable move intended to keep SL viable when there is a significant new law in effect that changes the environment in which they operate.

Yes, but SL is no more a "gambling site" the the internet is.

If CC companies want to go that route, they might as well say you can't use their CC on the net.

Knowing your CC company/bank and their rules/regs on such matters is the key. If the CC company's rules are too restrictive to your purposes, drop them like a bad habit and take your money someplace else.

I personally prefer a Debit Card for use with LL. That way, I can't go over a "limit". Only the money I put in that account (usually transfered there from another account) can be used, and I don't store large amounts for obvious reasons.

And while the block may be mandatory, so is proving that the site is a "gambling site". They can't block a card and then go "Ooops!". If they do, they are now libel for all damages and fees incurred due to the blocking (dependant on the "fine print" of the CC contract agreed to at issue).

Banks want to "scare" people. The fact is they're the ones scared. They're scared we'll learn the facts and point them out. Once we do, we prove they work for us, not the other way around.

~Jessy

Yes exactly.

No matter how much a gambling ban hurts the SL economy it hurts it less than US credit card companies not being able to pay LL.

If people are in SL, playing games of chance with Tokens that are bought with real money, and can bee redeemed for real mpney, are winning and cashing out, it sounds like a gambling site to me, at least one aspect of it is.. LL mde a business decision. They bungled telling us about it is the issue I have.

Ummm....I agree with the ban on wagering in SL. I am one of those happy to see it in place *Shrugs*.

As for wether the law thinks SL is a gambling site or not is moot to the discussion of if CC companies do as you say.

If the law says SL is a gambling site and forbids CC transactions, then not being able to pay LL doesn't matter as the company will go under. If they can't get paid, they're out a buisness.

A ~single~ CC company, making that decision on their own, when teh law does not agree with them, is libel for their actions. If the law doesn't think SL is a "gambling site" then the CC company has no right to block your payments. It'd be like them saying you can't use the CC to buy a happy meal because THEY say McD's is a "gambling site".

~Jessy