New blog post on LL's Content Management Roadmap
|
|
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
|
08-05-2009 13:16
From: Argent Stonecutter When philosophers start using terms like "organic" or "holistic", they really mean "oh wow, man". And what about common usage? This is the forums after all, not a smoking room for would-be Bertie Russells and their ilk. From: Argent Stonecutter Splitting hairs is the problem. I take to holism like an otter takes to operant conditioning.
[Karen Pryor] tried to condition an otter ... You really ought to get out more, Argent, and I don't mean go swim in the lake.
|
|
Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
|
08-05-2009 13:18
From: Ephraim Kappler F@ck of a lotta alts I gotta say. More power to em if they wanna work that hard. *botscoughbots* Seriously, this program just proves that LL has learned nothing about human nature. If they create a scale, it will be gamed! Edit to add: If this is what was meant by making traffic and thus bots irrelevant, they have much to learn from their own past.
_____________________
DiamonX Studios, the place of the Victorian Times series of gowns and dresses - Located at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Fushida/224/176
Want more attachment points for your avatar's wearing pleasure? Then please vote for
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1065?
|
|
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
|
08-05-2009 13:19
From: Ephraim Kappler This more or less describes my reasons for being enthusiastic about the new measures. From: Milla Janick Because it discourages people from learning new things?
Brilliant. Yep, cuz it pretty much ensures that there will be very little new innovation brought into SL, but will allow the existing long term folks control the markets. It won't take SL long to crash and burn then.
_____________________
♥♥♥ -Lil
Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell
|
|
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
|
08-05-2009 13:21
From: Ephraim Kappler Well there we have to differ because I think the status quo just encourages folk to hawk so much tripe before they have a notion wtf they're doing. Problem is that real cash is exchanged along the line and I see it as more of a crying shame than any fun at all.
Learning is one thing, turning a fast buck is another. I've had enough of that bullsh!t to last me a lifetime ... first, second or whatever. And it doesn't improve SL in my opinion. However, it does go a long way towards explaining why so many register, take a looksee and avoid logging thereafter.
SL remains plug-ugly and duff while this continues and newcomers like Blue Mars are latching on to a big market gap. I never said anything about selling anything at first. I question the long term viability of this entire idea and SL in general now and therefore question my time in learning the content creation well enough to be able to sell quality stuff. I think I am really glad that I never ever had someone like you for a RL teacher or mentor. From: Ephraim Kappler SL remains plug-ugly and duff while this continues and newcomers like Blue Mars are latching on to a big market gap. If that is your opinion, why are you still here rather than over at Blue Mars?
_____________________
♥♥♥ -Lil
Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell
|
|
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
|
08-05-2009 13:25
From: Ephraim Kappler by the way (cf: your first post to the thread), Cyn's use of the term 'holistic' was very apt if you care to look it up in a dictionary. Taoism is a holistic practice but holistic approaches do not begin and end with that particular branch of Eastern philosophy. If you care to look up all of the various discussions about the LL's TAO approach, then you would get a better feel for the sarcasm in my statement. But then, I look at things, with a critical eye, from all sides -- never through rose-colored glasses. And these days, I never believe anything that LL says will truly result in good anymore. (fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me)
_____________________
♥♥♥ -Lil
Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell
|
|
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
|
08-05-2009 13:30
From: Ephraim Kappler And what about common usage? Common usage of "organic" is like the poetic use of "energy" and "chemistry" to describe emotions and relationships. It's evocative, but when it shows up in a definition that's a red flag. We might as well be talking about Platonic Forms.
|
|
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
|
08-05-2009 13:34
From: LittleMe Jewell Yep, cuz it pretty much ensures that there will be very little new innovation brought into SL, but will allow the existing long term folks control the markets. It won't take SL long to crash and burn then. I don't agree. It is my opinion that everyone of us is creative - RL, SL or whatever - but I would qualify that with the observation that a baby grinning happily after a successful dump may merit a kind smile but I'm not going to reward him or her with a dollar everytime they soil their nappy (or diaper for those of a Murkan inclination). In the case of SL, I see a lot of residents trying their hand at texturing, animation, sculpting and (God forbid!) scripting but, while the results may be tremendously rewarding on a personal level as creative endeavours, more often than not they prove to be dissappointing, puerile and downright hazardous to consumers when proffered through a vendor. I do not accept any qualification of sales ability as an immediate restriction on creativity. To labour the point, I think that there is far too much emphasis within SL on sales ability as a measure of creativity, which is patent b@llocks in my humble opinion. You want to be serious about creativity? Ditch the dollars and cents bullsh!t first and we'll see how it goes.
|
|
Tristin Mikazuki
Sarah Palin ROCKS!
Join date: 9 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,012
|
08-05-2009 13:36
From: Ephraim Kappler I don't agree. It is my opinion that everyone of us is creative - RL, SL or whatever - but I would qualify that with the observation that a baby grinning happily after a successful dump may merit a kind smile but I'm not going to reward him or her with a dollar everytime they soil their nappy (or diaper for those of a Murkan inclination).
In the case of SL, I see a lot of residents trying their hand at texturing, animation, sculpting and (God forbid!) scripting but, while the results may be tremendously rewarding on a personal level as creative endeavours, more often than not they prove to be dissappointing, puerile and downright hazardous to consumers when proffered through a vendor.
I do not accept any qualification of sales ability as an immediate restriction on creativity. To labour the point, I think that there is far too much emphasis within SL on sales ability as a measure of creativity, which is patent b@llocks in my humble opinion.
You want to be serious about creativity? Ditch the dollars and cents bullsh!t first and we'll see how it goes. Yes cause NO ONE can be creative with money... its evil heh
|
|
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
|
08-05-2009 13:37
From: Argent Stonecutter Common usage of "organic" is like the poetic use of "energy" and "chemistry" to describe emotions and relationships. It's evocative, but when it shows up in a definition that's a red flag. We might as well be talking about Platonic Forms. I say I got a hard-on, only an idiot will fail to get my meaning. Same goes for words like 'organic' or 'holistic' for that matter. Allowing for a little liberal thinking, of course.
|
|
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
|
08-05-2009 13:39
From: Ephraim Kappler I say I got a hard-on, only an idiot will fail to get my meaning. Same goes for words like 'organic' or 'holistic' for that matter. Allowing for a little liberal thinking, of course. Yeh, I know what you mean by "holistic" and "organic". I just said that. You don't agree with my definition, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong, it just means you're not looking at things holistically enough.
|
|
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
|
08-05-2009 13:39
From: Tristin Mikazuki Yes cause NO ONE can be creative with money... its evil heh Yep. You said a whole mouthful there. But I won't have words like 'creative' and 'innovative' and 'remunerative' thrown at me all at once. Get the picture? Maybe you don't.
|
|
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
|
08-05-2009 13:42
BTW: patent bollocks means you're in danger of an inguinal hernia.
|
|
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
|
08-05-2009 13:47
From: Argent Stonecutter BTW: patent bollocks means you're in danger of an inguinal hernia. Ephraim Kappler roars laughing. Why not? I've had them shined often enough. PS:From: Argent Stonecutter ... but that doesn't mean I'm wrong, it just means you're not looking at things holistically enough. I'm looking around for a sharp knife or scalpel. I'll work through the issue of hunting you down later.
|
|
Tristin Mikazuki
Sarah Palin ROCKS!
Join date: 9 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,012
|
08-05-2009 13:54
From: Ephraim Kappler Yep. You said a whole mouthful there. But I won't have words like 'creative' and 'innovative' and 'remunerative' thrown at me all at once. Get the picture?
Maybe you don't. Maybe I should have said no one w/o a brain can be  Get the picture?
|
|
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
|
08-05-2009 13:58
From: Tristin Mikazuki Maybe I should have said no one w/o a brain can be  Get the picture? No I don't. Commerce and creativity are not commensurate terms for me.
|
|
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
|
08-05-2009 13:58
From: Ephraim Kappler I'm looking around for a sharp knife or scalpel. I'll work through the issue of hunting you down later.
No thanks, I'm full. 
|
|
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
|
08-05-2009 13:59
Aw look, I was only sh!tin ya.
|
|
Tristin Mikazuki
Sarah Palin ROCKS!
Join date: 9 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,012
|
08-05-2009 14:09
From: Ephraim Kappler No I don't. Commerce and creativity are not commensurate terms for me. Then ya have very little ability to be creative.. your skill lies eleswhere I think lol
|
|
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
|
08-05-2009 14:18
From: LittleMe Jewell I never said anything about selling anything at first. I question the long term viability of this entire idea and SL in general now and therefore question my time in learning the content creation well enough to be able to sell quality stuff. Apologies. I missed your response there. Why do you question your time spent on learning about content creation in SL? From: LittleMe Jewell think I am really glad that I never ever had someone like you for a RL teacher or mentor. I totally agree. I would be an utterly sh!te teacher. I know this, painfully, from RL experience. Teaching is a vocation and I don't have it. But we digress because I have never set myself up or even posed as a teacher. I would say that I was blessed with a tremendously brilliant teacher in RL so I know what I've got in terms of being an objective creator and I surely understand what I'm missing in the mentoring stakes. From: LittleMe Jewell If that is your opinion, why are you still here rather than over at Blue Mars? I've invested two years of my time in getting to know SL and what is possible within the medium. I can deal with it now and I can offer stuff for sale without feeling like I'm taking a stranger's hard-earned cash in return for lumbering them with inept bullsh!t. That good enough? From: Tristin Mikazuki Then ya have very little ability to be creative.. your skill lies eleswhere I think lol Lol yasself.
|
|
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
|
08-05-2009 15:02
From: Sindy Tsure Just save us some time, cut to the chase and tell us if you've already decided to ignore this one or not. Well, I think we have a clear indication of how well, or how poorly, Linden Lab is going to listen to Resident concerns and feedback on the new Content Management roadmap. I just fought my way through all 70+ posts in that horrid blog-based excuse for a forum's "discussion" on the Content Provider approval program, or whatever they feel like calling it. The only Linden to reply in that thread, and only once, as the last reply there, was... Blondin. Who I am sure will do the same stellar job of "listening", and providing half-baked and mostly innacurate "responses", as he did in the Adult Content debacle. Turn out the lights, folks. Nothing's listening to you but a store manequin.
_____________________
Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
|
|
Lyla Tunwarm
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 179
|
08-05-2009 16:45
From: Ceera Murakami
Turn out the lights, folks. Nothing's listening to you but a store manequin.
Might be better off. At least then you won't get an answer you don't want to hear because we know thats coming from LL.
|
|
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
|
08-05-2009 18:16
From: Anya Ristow A discussion of IP that has coders in it. This should be useful. Not.
Sorry if this has come up already. Just wanted to express my surprise that this came from The Lab:
I doubt many at The Lab actually believe the last part. Maybe the recently hired adults are putting their foot down. Or they want to play favorites for some form of officially sanctioned content.
|
|
Rossi Portland
Registered User
Join date: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 4
|
Shoppers?
08-05-2009 20:03
Re: the content seller program --- the requirement for a "minimum number of transactions" is ludicrously easy to game, no matter how they actually define it.
What do you think of LL contracting with a "shopper" agency, like RL businesses do, to vet merchants who apply to the Seller Program? It would cost a little money, but that could be indirectly charged back to merchants who apply, and would eliminate any dependence on size of customer base. ?
|
|
Innula Zenovka
Registered User
Join date: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,825
|
08-06-2009 10:41
From: Couldbe Yue possibly no one at the moment, but like all social engineering the time will come.
The more I think about it the more it does seem like we're going into a two tier system. There'll be the chosen few who LL will promote as part of the content provision to business and to newbie consumers (those missing millions) who come inworld (think showcase type thing) and then there'll be the ever reducing herd of swine that is currently us.
I can't apply. There's no way I can even remember who I bought most of my textures et al from and with what av, so there's no way I can even go to the supplier and get a guarantee of authenticity and approval for use outside of SL (which is what is needed if they're going over to the BIAB platforms).
Even if I did there's no guarantee they're telling the truth, yet I would be required to attest everything is legitimate.
As this is LL though I suspect it's just marketing and that they'll talk the talk but not do anything about applying their standards. The showcasing should certainly be entertaining. Even though you feel unable to apply, there are plenty of makers of adult products who either do know where all there stuff comes from or who won't be so scrupulous as you about verifying the intellectual property on all their textures. I think it's going to be a great hoot seeing all these people showcased as Linden Labs Approved Suppliers of bondage gear, slave collars, torture implements, sex beds, scripted genitalia and the like.
|
|
Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
|
08-06-2009 11:03
From: Ceera Murakami Well, I think we have a clear indication of how well, or how poorly, Linden Lab is going to listen to Resident concerns and feedback on the new Content Management roadmap. I just fought my way through all 70+ posts in that horrid blog-based excuse for a forum's "discussion" on the Content Provider approval program, or whatever they feel like calling it.
The only Linden to reply in that thread, and only once, as the last reply there, was...
Blondin.
Who I am sure will do the same stellar job of "listening", and providing half-baked and mostly innacurate "responses", as he did in the Adult Content debacle.
Turn out the lights, folks. Nothing's listening to you but a store manequin. Well he did cut and paste the same reply to each of the sections 
_____________________
Independent Shopping for Second Life residents from established and new merchants. http://slapt.me  slapt.me - In-World HQ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bastet/123/118/26
|