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Removed from Mentor Group?

VooDoo Projects
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 89
10-15-2008 15:15
From: Kitty Barnett
If they'd emailed your spam filter would have eaten it. You're just full of excuses to blame anyone but yourself for your lack in keeping up to date.
Linden Lab tells us not to use yahoo mail because of the spam filter. That is why I switched to gmail two years ago. I do not need or use a spam filter.

It is not the Volunteer's responsibility to get in touch with the Volunteer Coordinator. It is the paid professionals responsibility to get in touch with their volunteers. All of them. Period.

From: someone
I also noticed you seem to have swallowed your claim that you looked at the wiki during September.
I didn't swallow it. I said it once and that is it. Do you need me to copy/paste it again here for you? If I say it twice to you will you believe it? or will you continue on your mis-guided campaign to pretend Volunteer Coordinators are supposed to shake loose as many volunteers as they can so they do not have to work so hard?

From: someone
Other than people complaining because they can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes to skim over a blog every now there is no drama.
Or the VTeam could have taken 5 minutes to ask the tech team to send time stamped e-mails to every mentor to make sure everyone saw the notice - or just send a link to the blog to everyone to make sure they sign in and see what is new.

From: someone
It would have been better if they'd simply removed everyone with the option to get reinstated to serve as a wake-up call that you're "sleeping on the job" as far as keeping up is concerned.
Your really out of control now!
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
10-15-2008 15:22
From: Toy LaFollette
perhaps I dislike whining. perhaps when others feel they are anointed and deserve special treatment. Ive seen a fee posts here that the Mentor program will be better off that they are gone. and lastly I am allowed oppinions here and dont have to agree


Well isn't it nice for you that when you express your opinions people don't roll their eyes at you.

rude.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
10-15-2008 15:28
From: VooDoo Projects
It is not the Volunteer's responsibility to get in touch with the Volunteer Coordinator. It is the paid professionals responsibility to get in touch with their volunteers. All of them. Period.

just what are your responsibilities? I dont think being led by the hand is one of them.

From: VooDoo Projects
I didn't swallow it. I said it once and that is it. Do you need me to copy/paste it again here for you? If I say it twice to you will you believe it? or will you continue on your mis-guided campaign to pretend Volunteer Coordinators are supposed to shake loose as many volunteers as they can so they do not have to work so hard?

once again what are YOUR responsabilities?

From: VooDoo Projects
Or the VTeam could have taken 5 minutes to ask the tech team to send time stamped e-mails to every mentor to make sure everyone saw the notice - or just send a link to the blog to everyone to make sure they sign in and see what is new.

the object was to weed those who dont pay attention, sending a personsal email would be defeating the purpose

From: VooDoo Projects
Your loonie!


I see this as one of the very reasons the group needed weeding.
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
10-15-2008 15:29
From: Kitty Barnett

It would have been better if they'd done it based on something more substantial than a "Yes/No" survey, or made everyone who'd joined in the past year and was part of the problem jump through hoops to stay in the group but it had to be done one way or another.


You're probably right, sounds like they needed to cut the group down. But I think a survey would have been a pretty good idea. Or maybe an email saying "look we want to do this this and this, we need you to be in world and 100% here all the time to attend meetings etc. If you're not able to do this please let me know and I'll remove you from the group". I would have bailed.

I think that would have been a far more diplomatic way for them to go.

I received the email they sent informing me I was removed from the group the same day they sent it. They could have sent one before, informing me that i needed to reapply prior to this and I would have received that too.

Anywho... it is what it is.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
10-15-2008 15:39
From: Ingrid Ingersoll
Well isn't it nice for you that when you express your opinions people don't roll their eyes at you.

rude.

sorry I cant agree with you but if being rude means I dont agree I guess Im rude. :)
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
10-15-2008 15:47
ya know what Ingrid.... to you I will apologize... I think I need a few days break from SL and the forums
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
10-15-2008 16:06
From: VooDoo Projects
It is not the Volunteer's responsibility to get in touch with the Volunteer Coordinator. It is the paid professionals responsibility to get in touch with their volunteers. All of them. Period.
They did get in touch.

Again: notices (regardless of cap and regardless of delivery they're in the history) AND the wiki (properly) AND the blog AND the mailing list AND mentor meetings/the transcripts AND group chat.

If you want to close yourself off from the world that's entirely your choice, just don't be surprised when things have changed when you peek out of your shell after your hibernation.

From: someone
I didn't swallow it. I said it once and that is it. Do you need me to copy/paste it again here for you? If I say it twice to you will you believe it? or will you continue on your mis-guided campaign to pretend Volunteer Coordinators are supposed to shake loose as many volunteers as they can so they do not have to work so hard?
There's just the little contradiction of your claim of looking at the page in September when the notice had been there since August 26th which contradict one another.

I'll believe you looked at it, I won't believe the notice wasn't there since the change history clearly shows that it was there. So you looked at the page but just didn't notice it, which is hardly their fault.

From: someone
Or the VTeam could have taken 5 minutes to ask the tech team to send time stamped e-mails to every mentor to make sure everyone saw the notice - or just send a link to the blog to everyone to make sure they sign in and see what is new.
The blog was "promoted" as THE means of communication on a nauseating scale when it was announced, something you just keep on ignoring and new mentors got it spoonfed to them as part of being an apprentice.

If you have a disagreement on anything then office hours (you could do it at a meeting but that wouldn't be terribly productive) or notecards/IMs are the way to go, but meanwhile you're still expected to conform which means turning to the blog.

They already went out of their way to let people know in different ways. Being stubborn and insisting that "since they didn't do it my way it doesn't count" is childish at best.

As far as email is concerned: someone else would need to confirm but I'd be surprised if this was never brought up on the mailing list. I'm not subscribed to it either, but 1) I keep informed in other ways and 2) if I miss something important that is said on it then it's because I never bothered to sign up for it.

(Edited to phrase things a bit differently)
Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
10-15-2008 17:04
As Ingrid said, it is what it is.

*whips out premium scented oil and pours*

C'mon. You're all helpful, knowledgable, effective people. The Lindens are not reading this thread. Why pick at each other? Particulary, why spend time picking at other provably good people when the American election season is upon us? Surely there are better targets near at hand!

kthxbai

:)
Danziel Lane
Ich mag SL - I love SL
Join date: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 475
10-16-2008 04:21
Ah, there are two long thread about this.

If you are interested in my (long) sad story, read here:
/203/26/285391/2.html#post2181957
_____________________
I script, I teach, I build, I lag (R), I crash (TM). ... But then I relog.
Palomma Casanova
Free Dove Owner
Join date: 5 Apr 2004
Posts: 635
10-16-2008 12:46
Everyone is just adding opinions and thoughts. Everything around us is are opinions and thoughts. Good thing we all don't think the same if not this world would be boring. At least I don't see personal insults, which is good.

Anyway, I gave my thoughts but I am moving on... Like someone said before, 'lindens not reading this or seem to care to do something" ... so really, nothing we can do to come back.

We all have our valid points.

I just know I am out of a group that use to spam a lot lol, still I didn't want to leave it, but if I knew that I was going to be kicked, ufff, I would of have left it long time ago, because I am sure I hate all that spam!!

However, I heard there is a good scripting group that spams a lot for sure, but at least I can learn something!!!

Take care all...
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Palomma
Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
10-16-2008 13:13
Palomma,

Before you go, I want to say THANK YOU for creating The Free Dove. It's the best freebie store in SL, and I send all my newbies there.

That place is a HUGE help to newcomers.
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It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd
VooDoo Projects
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 89
10-16-2008 19:38
From: Nika Talaj
C'mon. You're all helpful, knowledgable, effective people. The Lindens are not reading this thread.
Many of the Mentors kicked from the group have added similar comments to the Vblog - hopefully a Linden is reading that or this entire excercise was nonsense. And yet still no explanations, apoligizes or comments in the Mentor group or the vblog.
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Palomma Casanova
Free Dove Owner
Join date: 5 Apr 2004
Posts: 635
10-17-2008 00:40
ahhh, np Lindal, you welcome, I am glad you enjoy it and thanks for bringing people so they can look good... Thanks for all the compliments. I have a lot of fun getting good designers to help.

Well, good luck to all in all the decisions. I will be mentoring in my Free Dove then lol

Lots of work to do there for me. :p
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Palomma
Dog Galicia
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 177
mentors
10-17-2008 00:54
I have read this thread with a great deal of interest. Since day 1, I have remained friendly with a great mentor female who goes out of her way to help me and many others beyond the call of duty. Take just yesterday, the girl who messed her face up?. I IM'd the mentor who was building a house for someone and she came right over to some godforsaken place and fixed her up in a trice, even giving her some new skin and clothes.
The poor girl was crying rl and had just about given up, now she relishes the challenges of sl with a figure to die for and a smile on her face.

This is what mentoring is all about and I am so thankful that she and others like her, like you all really, have saved so many of us from fashion disaster, early sl exits and falling by the wayside.

We should extol our mentors and put them on damn pedestals. If ever there was an award for mentors then my friend win it. You would all come a close second though. (*blushes*)

'lil doggie
Chaffro Schoonmaker
Funny Bunny
Join date: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 137
10-17-2008 04:36
From: Kitty Barnett
Forwards to email don't cap.

When was the last time you saw any of the VTeam post here without someone first bringing a thread to their attention? They don't use the forums for communication.

When the VTeam blog started just under a year ago they were literally shoving it down everyone's throat with a flood of notices pointing out its existance, that you should check it for new information and later on that in-world notices would be deprecated in favour of the blog (never actually happened).

A lot of subsequent notices in the past year have referred to the VTeam blog as well if not by URL then by name. If you were oblivious to the existance of it then that seems to indicate a pattern where you simply haven't been paying attention to anything to do with mentors for the entire past year.

Because they habitually post everything else on the forums? :rolleyes: Other than a few breadcrumbs recently, Lindens don't post on the forums, least of all the VTeam.

I'm amazed people keep throwing a pity party when the only way you could have missed it is:
* you never read group notices
* you don't pay attention to group chat (mentors and Lindens alike brought it up quite often)
* you never attend the monthly meetings or read the transcripts
* you never check the wiki
* you never read the VTeam blog
* you don't read the mailing list (I'm not actually subscribed to it, but I can't imagine it didn't come up there)

You can have perfectly valid reasons for not bothering with any random one out of those 6 but if you can't be bothered to keep informed in *any* way then how exactly are you involved at all?

---

I do think most of the other criticsm is valid: they did dump whole truckloads of clueless and useless "mentors" into the group in the past year and a half and if you're going to get rid of anyone start with the ones that go "what's HI?!?" in the group or don't even know the very basics of SL and are just in the group to get help for themselves rather than be capable of helping anyone else but the VTeam seems averse to having any kind of standard.


Boring. I got so mad with mentors telling me in forums "you have been told this" or "you knew that" or "you read this" or "this was shoved in your face so hard you saw the word mentor in front of every word ever spoken for 3 days after" when no-one but no-one has any damned right to tell me what I did or didn't see/read/got told/was informed about. I quit the Mentor group at my own choosing because I got so fed up with over-zealous over-righteous folk trying to tell me that just because I was in the mentor group any issues I might have had with SL or communication within SL from that point in was obviously down to my own doing and not the fault of the holier-than-thou Lindens that we were now so obviously associated with. I hardly saw any notices - I saw a lot of 'zomg, hi there! haven't seen u in ages!!! rotflmao how r u hun x' spam in group chat - and was never presented with a definitive do's and don't's when I was accepted as part of the mentor group; however, some are still under the impression that that is a standard. I can tell you now with 100% certainty: no it isn't. Don't come here and shout at people going "you were told, you were told waah waah waaah!", because obviously they weren't, or else they wouldn't be coming here saying that.

As I said in a previous post, this whole culling issue has done very little to further the role of mentors. There are a lot of disgruntled people as a result. There are now less mentors on-hand to actually approach. Some of the ones that are left seem to think that some God-like beam of light has shone on them as 'chosen ones'. My advice to those who got the axe: be your usual friendly selves, help out wherever it's needed, and offer advice without predjudice. I have had more positive feedback from people I have helped out around the community I most often inhabit since the time I jumped off the good ship Mentor than I ever did in the time I was aboard it. And for that, I'm very proud. It's not a huge deal for me to help people, but some take it as a massive compliment that I would take a few minutes out of my day to point them in the right direction.

Being helpful doesn't end with not being a Mentor.

Rant over. Continue your bashing.
Georgette Whitfield
Registered User
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 20
10-23-2008 03:46
OH MY GOSH Lindens you chucked Palomma Casanova and Ingrid Ingersoll out of the group?!!!! Are you crazy?!!! (Actually don't answer that =P)

As someone who's been waiting to get INTO the Mentor group and eagerly checking the volunteer application page for months, I could easily gloat over the new free space in the group. Except I really feel for those Mentors who have been treated like this. The problem is one I have witnessed in RL too. If a job or a company is seen to be so great, such a fun place to work for etc etc, then folks will be queuing up to work for them, whether for free or paid. They will be inundated with applications for volunteers. They can pick and choose how they like. They may not mean to use people, but they will inevitably end up doing so, as the more that apply, the greater the choice the company has. If one person gets fed up with how they are treated and leaves, there will be another 10 willing to take their place. This leads the company to think they aren't doing anything wrong because if they were, no one would want to work for them, right? It's the old rule of supply and demand, except we are people not goods to be bought and sold.

For those fed up with the Lab's attitude but who still want to help fellow residents, please consider joining Second Ability Mentors, which is an excellent group welcoming disabled residents to SL. Also consider Info Island International which is aiming to run a 24-7 help desk similar to those seen at libraries or citizen advice bureaus in RL. You do not need to be a librarian to work there, simply have a desire to help fellow residents. There are also other roles you can do as well as reference desk. IM me for further info. For SAM, please contact Saxet Uralia.
Palomma Casanova
Free Dove Owner
Join date: 5 Apr 2004
Posts: 635
10-24-2008 08:39
Yes, there are other ways to always help others. Thanks for the offer to join groups. I have the Free Dove, lots of work there to help others. So, I decided I am ok. If Lindens wanted to remove me, well, nothing I can do. I was just disappointed how they did it, because I didn't see it coming.

Have fun
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Palomma
VooDoo Projects
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 89
10-24-2008 10:04
The outrageous part of this is that the adfarmers who did not comply by removing their adfarms from the mainland by October 1st were sent a personal e-mail from Linden Lab and given another chance to comply.

But people working for free for Linden Lab were not extended this courtesy. No one from Linden Lab will even discuss this mess with any resident effected. We have all been completely ignored after receiving a 'no-reply' e-mail saying we were kicked out. And we were kicked out because the front line staff of Linden Lab made the mistake of rolling all volunteers into one group - then found it unmanageable. So instead of putting everyone back in their original groups - they decided to use this under-handed process to thin the heard (and had the gall to joke and giggle about it). Now they are making the Greeter group all over again and a Mentor Instructor group (replacing the old Instructor group) but they refuse to let the greeters to just go back to the group they were hand-picked and trained to be apart of.

Linden Lab has managed to take something as pleasant as volunteering and turned it into a nasty bit of sloppy bureaucracy.

The person manually sending out these e-mails to fire nearly 2,000 volunteers should be ashamed of themselves.
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Danziel Lane
Ich mag SL - I love SL
Join date: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 475
10-24-2008 17:01
Well, VooDoo, the double standards of measuring adfarmers and volunteers are on thing that must make us think ...

My points are these:

1st:
From the answer of VTeam about my reasons, why I missed the deadline:
"Danziel, it would be so totally unfair to start judging individuals and
their reasons ..."

Well, while we as mentors judge and value each and every single resident individually, the Lindens find it unfair to do the same for us.

SL is a service, LL is a service company. We are not only residents, we are customers, paying customers. Volunteers are not only customers paying and using a service, they do a lot more ... and are treated as if they were not even customers, but just a mass that must be thankful for SL.

LL should learn to act as a service company and individually value customers.

2nd:
From the answer of VTeam about my reasons, why I missed the deadline:
"You have a great deal to give your fellow residents, its clear to me
that you don't need to be a Mentor to help them."

This means bancruptcy of the mentor idea, the mentor group, a slap into the face of all mentors. VTeam judges me to have a great deal to give ... and their conclusion is that my place should NOT be in the mentor group.
These words must be understood as: "We do not want the good and skilled residents in the mentor group".
So, if they don't need the skilled ones that can give a great deal to their customers, whom DO they want?

3rd:
Many mentors, not only me, gave a lot: texts, pictures, ideas, gadgets, scripts, builds, objects ... to the mentor group. Built on SLVEC or posted in the mentor parts of the wiki, we can no longer control what is happening to our work.

This is a breach of DMCA / German Urheberrecht and the TOS of SL. Taking the work of an artist, scripter or builder and then cut him off from the sources that his work is published, is not the spirit of all the rules and laws about how to treat human work and human creations.


However, no post here will change anything.

I have given up to expect communication with LL, they will never reconsider an answer once given, no matter, what new good arguments will come up.
Communication is the problem, and the idea of how to treat customers. Time of Lindens is valued much more than time of their customers, that is why in more than half of the cases messages will not be answered, even if they are asked for from LL.

SL is such a great chance for the future of the internet, even future of business, and yes, it is created by the creativity and work of their residents, who are customers.
What is needed is some new thinking in Linden Labs of how to offer customer service, how to communicate and value customers, their committed time, their work, their ideas, their suggestions, their creativity, their emotions and not at last, their feelings.
_____________________
I script, I teach, I build, I lag (R), I crash (TM). ... But then I relog.
Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
10-24-2008 18:19
monkey dick sandwich. :(
_____________________
From: Torley Linden
We can't be clear enough, ever, in our communication.
Amilie Anatine
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 38
ejected
10-24-2008 21:01
im very sorry to hear that there were so many ejected without any warning. I do remember the vteam sending a group notice saying that we needed to renew our membership, which i did. I wonder what kind of glitch caused this? you know, if you click through the notices too fast, you can miss stuff. sometimes notices dont come if your IMs are capped. its a real shame.

i want to encourage everyone to please forgive and rejoin the mentor program if possible, you will be helping alot of newbies, please.
Amilie Anatine
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 38
ps. how about live help group?
10-24-2008 21:04
if you decide not to rejoin the mentors group, allow me to extend an invitation to join our new live help group. it is open to all mentors and residents 6 mos and younger. in our group you can help anyone via IM. the group is in my profile, i dont know the exact name for you to search on it. i think its volunteer live help.. something.
Vryl Valkyrie
Owner of 3D Concepts
Join date: 30 May 2006
Posts: 257
10-25-2008 00:44
This is not neccessarily a bad thing. Something good can come out of it. I know there are good mentors but sad to say, there were also some few rotten apples.

Personally, I think when choosing to be a mentor, one should not trash the company or community it represents or engage in activities which violate the ToS.

At least this way, we can start from fresh. Anyway, not sure if being a mentor should be a perma position in the first place. Any opinions on this?
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Visit 3D Concepts for the best professional legal and licensed textures in SL: http://slurl.com/secondlife/3D%20Concepts/128/225/31
Spider Mycron
Registered User
Join date: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 133
10-25-2008 03:44
Hi ..
it's god chance to speak also about me here ..
it was really bad shock to been kicked from the MM groups !
why we should renew our membership ?
we wish to continue working for FREE to help every one and this is just wonderful work

i really not accept or understand why they ask to re new our membership

some times we can never log or communicate with SL when RL take us ! and i just wish LL to accept this kindly

we are in SL represent LL been Mentors and we show how we respect and Love SL to every one inside, it's really upset me to find me as one of many to be kicked cause of just missing the note card !!!

why we can be removed that easy ?

i can understand the stress and hard great work LL do inside SL
but we are also ready and just glad to work to help build this lovely community

never mind !!!
i will keep my heart open to the next chance
but i will stay in pain and the dissapoint about what happened

thanks to every one
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Spider Mycron
Life Heart Beat
Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
10-25-2008 03:46
From: Amilie Anatine
if you decide not to rejoin the mentors group, allow me to extend an invitation to join our new live help group. it is open to all mentors and residents 6 mos and younger. in our group you can help anyone via IM. the group is in my profile, i dont know the exact name for you to search on it. i think its volunteer live help.. something.


It is "Volunteer - Live Help" and yes we would love to see any Mentors that have been dropped from the group and also any languages also. The group is free to join but Ex Mentors you will need an invite :)
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