Removed from Mentor Group?

@Vryl

Thanks for your thoughts. Of course there are other opinions.

Not really. It started with bad communication, one way communication. Mentor work is interaction, not ruling the residents around. VTeam communication is one way only, if you get anwers, they only happen once and are mostly a No.

Something good can come out of this, if the Lindens think over their way of communication and start not ruling resident, but being aware of LL being a service company that is so awfully depending on acitiviy of their customers.

Well, first I never talk of other people as rotten apples.

I know, there are mentors that use their tag to brag (just like LL brags with their mentors and VTeam). As from all you see in blogs and news, mentors must be something very special, of course braggadocians and egomaniacs are very much attracted by that title, and those people will never forget to read about the renewal page.

I know, there are mentors that threaten others, sometimes even threatening them with attacks in RL, but even these have not forgotten to renew.

If there are rotten apples, you will not pick them out by one way communication, which sorts those out, that are experienced in RL and do not have the time to read each blog, cause skilled people need to be careful with their time and skilled people have a real life besides their second life.


So true, but as you can read the opposite happens. Appreciation of TAO and TOS had not been a factor, former ARs have not been a factor, presence on OI, HI, help places and gateways has not been a factor.
The only factor that counted was to read the announcements of LL, which is, what they understand as activity.

Good communication goes in both directions.
Do you see any reaction on the many good hints why the renewal might not have been the best idea of organizing something like this?


Nope.

Who are the "We" that you mention? I am not within them, Spyder, who posted today, is not within them ... those "We" are those who read the announcements of LL.
There will still be the braggarts in them who want the tag to brag. I know of some that renewed that definitely openly rejected to work together on the basis of the TAO.

Sure, some of those who were inactive and left SL or found something else to do are sorted out now.

But active, motivated people that you read of in this thread are sorted out too.

So be careful to talk about "We".

In case of Spyder, you will probably still find his hut on SLVEC with all the great stuff he freely gave (and gives) to mentor fellows. But also he is kicked out, is not able to control what happens to his work, will not be able to offer new versions, if he finds a bug ...

Starting from fresh? Half of the old mentor group has renewed as I hear, I don't think that the ratio of what you would call rotten apples has improved.


It would not be, if more interaction would happen. As long as VTeam not really knows and communicates with the mentors, they have no chance to know of the inactive or poor working ones.

My suggestion would be to make VTeam a real TEAM, with Lindens AND residents and to improve communication. VTeam being a team of volunteers and Lindens would be the better way to do the work, cause skills are out there in RL and with the residents. Only, the way skills are sorted out and scared away, there is no chance to start fresh or find out, who might be the one for a perma job and who not.

From Massively:
http://www.massively.com/2008/10/26/updates-to-second-life-volunteer-programs/

Obviously Blue did not want to answer for her action s and quietly gave up the entire initiative.

To launch such an attack on a group and then drop the entire thing is more salt for the wounds of fired mentors.

Like Hiero I became a Mentor as soon as I could and like Hiero, I became disillusioned with fellow mentors, Linden Labs, but mostly in the fact that the bigger SL got, the less respect the Mentors received. When I joined the Mentor Group in early 2006, their was a lot of interest in SL with a great number of news articles - both in print and on the television, as well as gratuitus plugs on various television series.

I was here at the birth of Mental Mentors and some of you might recall it was created because of all the bitching and infighting in the Mentor group. You couldn't ask a question in the Mentor group without getting a snippy comment on how you're spamming the group or bothering someone while they're mentoring (more like in the throws of passion after buying that new item from Xcite)
Or calls out for help when you were the only one on any of the HI's (I remember when there was just one) and you were being innundated with questions or trying to give direction and no one ever came.

With LL's it was hard to get help when there was a griefer or someone running around naked in a PG sim. We wanted some sort of power, but was always told to call a Linden - which half the time meant you'd have to wait and then by the time the Linden arrived, the damage was done, the Griefer/Nudist was gone and all you had was the frustration, but as a Mentor, you felt it was important that you stayed in the situation, took control and calmed those around you by telling them that HELP was on the way.......

I helped to create the guidelines for Mentors on the notecards that were/are currently housed at the Volunteer Center. I did this along with Tateru who created several of the others. I'm sure that they've all been revised by now as things have changed greatly since then.

I wasn't an "active member" for over a year and only log in now once in a while. I was tired of SL and to some degree still am. I miss chatting with my SL family of friends, but don't miss the group bickering and infighting. I was also shocked that I was removed, but thought that it really didn't matter since I'm not active anyway. (but I'm still a paying member) I was a good Mentor. Patient and took the time to teach one on one and groups. I saw MANY Mentors who didn't. But the old saying of absolute power corrupts absolutely, works the other way around as, no power of authority breeds corruption. Then you either don't care about helping or you move on. I ended up doing both.

IF, I ever come back the SL on a regular basis, I won't be signing up for the Mentor Group. I'd rather be able to just TP to another SIM when a nudist or griefer is causing havoc than to feel responsible because of my Mentor Tag. Let some other schmuck handle it.

Hi, Sky! Nice to see an old hand peeking back in. I hope you DO return to SL as a regular. There have been some changes. For one thing, there are a LOT less griefers since the new server code's been deployed. I haven't seen an attack of prim penises in months.

The Welcome Areas are still chaotic, but the grid as a whole is getting better...fewer ad farms, many more private estates, and even some new large scale Linden builds (Bay City, Nautilus).

Land prices are in the toilet, and bots infest the place. But on the whole, Second Life is a better place than it was two years ago.

That is good news, Lindal. I am wondering, though, what places you are referring to where you are saying there are alot less griefing attacks? This would be good information to pass on to the newcomers that I've been speaking with nearly every evening on HIP, so that they might have a place to go to seek help while remaining relatively unscathed by these kinds of attacks.

I have been volunteering my time largely at HIP for months now and have seen/reported numerous griefing attacks there which continue to happen nightly, often several times per night. Just as one recent example of this, there was an evening last week where where there were 4 griefing attacks back-to-back within the space of perhaps 10 minutes (as soon as one was dealt with, another would come along to take its place). Definitely not a good impression upon the new residents that I and others were trying to assist at the time.

I guess thart depends on what you define as a "griefing attack".

Someone running around naked and colliding with people I would classifiy as an annoyance. Simply telling the newbies to sit on something and ignore the idiot generally works well. And AR, of course.

A "griefing attack" is something more serious, at least in my book. A general attack on the sim, with scripted objects. I've been hanging out mostly on various Help Islands (not HI Public), and have not seen these in a long time. Nor do I see these attacks in any of the "normal" sims I visit. The Welcome areas and HI Public are another matter, of course.

In reacting to the decision to remove from the group those mentors who did not renew their membership, I think one needs to consider the reason why we were asked to renew. The VTeam already had all our information. No new questions were asked on the renewal forms. Surely, then, the reason we were asked to renew was to check which members of the group were listening to the VTeam and which were not. If anyone can think of a a more likely reason, I'd be interested to hear it.

If it was the case that the purpose of having us renew was to distinguish between the members of the group who were actively listening to the VTeam from the members who were not, then it would have defeated the purpose to contact everyone through an individual email.

If I were an administrator who communicated with my team by email, and I wanted to know which members were not reading my communications, I would email them a request to, say, send me their name and title by a certain time. I could then conclude that those who did not respond were not reading my instructions on a regular basis. Calling them individually to have them read that particular email would defeat its purpose.

To all those who have said in this thread that helping people is more important than attending meetings/reading text from the VTeam, I don't disagree. But membership in the Mentor group indicates more than a willingness to help. It is a Linden-organized group, and thus membership in it also implies a willingness to take direction from the Lindens in charge. If the VTeam makes a new policy, or sets up new directives, or makes any changes, their effectiveness can only be as strong as the leaders' ability to communicate those changes to the group. If the group isn't listening, then leadership becomes meaningless.

For those who want to help residents, but do not want to attend meetings, or read the blog, or check notices, or read IMs, or participate in any of the ways that the VTeam communicated the renewal instructions to us, then I think that there are probably more appropriate avenues for them to exercise their willingness to help. And I would never assert that those other organizations, or even random, individual helping, is any less valuable than the Mentor group. But it is different, in that it does not perport to represent the Lindens in any way.

Well said, Petronilla, but read back in this thread.

There ARE reasons, that "communication" from the leaders is not read, let me repeat for you some of them:
- being in hospital
- being full with RL business for a few weeks
- being cut off from the internet when moving into a new flat
- mentors announcing their break to Lindens in advance but being unheard
- inworld communications being cut after quite a short time for real busy residents
- and more

Well, there ARE reasons not to read the announcements, especially, when they go inworld and get cut off, while a rather safe way to inform all - mails - is definitely rejected, cause, as you say, they would have been noticed (even by me in the internet cafe).

And again: communication is never a one way road from the leaders to the folks, rejecting individual judgment about reasons, ignoring answers and requests, is not what should happen in a TEAM.
We do not have a team, when there is only the way of communications from the leaders to the folks, while the opposite way with sorrows, worries, suggestions, ideas, creativity, professional support, questions and requests is permanently ignored.

Residents are customers and should be treated as such.

If I am a customer at any service company and they don't listen to my communication, I select another service company (what I have done lately, when an ISP was unable to install a working internet connection in my new flat in August and September).
Unfortunately, SL is the only SL (yet), so we cannot select a different service company (at the moment).

And also: in all classes for apprentice mentors it was said, that a break from mentor duties (and from SL) is no problem. But definitely it is, cause I announced my absence from the net to Lindens and was fired anyway.

So, though you are generally right, the examples in this thread show, that there should be some individual judgement, just as the ad farmers who ignore Linden communication are happy to receive.

Very true, and I would never classify someone running around naked (often accidentally as a result of someone not yet understanding how to change clothes correctly) or accidentally colliding with someone as a "griefing" attack. The attacks that I mentioned in my post were with scripted objects in a deliberate attempt to disrupt the sim...the "true" griefing attack that does not fall under any other category.

While it is a good opportunity to offer further help to newcomers by showing them how to deal with such attacks (i.e., sitting down, how and when to file an AR, etc), I wish that there was some way in which these areas might be more closely monitored, as the griefers do seem to target the Help areas in particular, which of course, is where many newcomers are getting some of their first impressions of SL.

There are less damaging ways to test an adminstrator's ability to communicate to their volunteer staff. Firing half of them after they do not get the message from you about a procedure that never existed before is not the way.

huh? I assume you mean that they did not read the non-mandatory blog that did not come into existence until late 2006. You do not dismiss 1.700 volunteers because they do not read your blog.

Twisted. The Leaders attempting to communicate are responsible to do so. Not blame the people they never communicated to. All Mentors followed the rules until the rules were changed and not properly communicated to them.

In 2006 the Greeters were told to drop their greeter tags and send a Ticket to geta Mentor Tag. That was the last bit of switcher-roo nonsense to hit the volunteer group. Now the switch is that the Greeters that were not informed have to apply to be Greeters again in January. What a circle jerk.

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You want to go on teh pretense that this was a willing act. That these volunteers purposely ignored these notices. The Truth is thatthey were never received. And that was the idea. To use a process t get rid of human resources so the people in charge had less work to do. Pathetic.

I understand this feeling. I also contributed with translations.. I didnt see any questionaire too..And I also got removed.. And.. as far as i know, when they open the questionaire again we will have to be aprentices again ahahahahhahah

Quite simply, LL did not use all of their own ways to communicate with us.

It was *never* announced on the official mailing list .... you know, the one that we were told to join. Actually, none of their initiatives ever are, so I have to wonder why they even have it.

The response from them is "why do you not read the vteam blog all the time?" .... well, because I am a volunteer and have quite a few other things in my life, like a job. Pay me and tell me to read several data sources and I will, otherwise, being a mentor is not the thing that puts food on my table.

I’ve been cast out. I now wear the tag "Fallen Mentor". In my case, I was taking care of an aging parent for a few months and didn’t come back until the great Mentor purge of 2008 was complete. I’ve read lots of points of view in this thread and lots of thoughts on what LL could possibly have been thinking. Many of those that were cast out were affected emotionally due to the implied "we don’t want/need you anymore" in the cast out process. I was one of them. The mentor group provided me with a sense of belonging and purpose in second life. It was core to my second life experience. I didn’t realize how much until it was gone. It was how I connected. I identified with being a mentor. Somehow helping out at HIP with the Fallen Mentor tag doesn’t feel the same. Becoming a mentor again at some point when it is allowed feels like starting over. In my current mental fugue, it feels overwhelming. So I walk alone now. Not part of something larger than myself. Not a member of the group anymore. No longer belonging. I feel hurt and betrayed in some way that can’t be expressed in any rational sense and those that would say you shouldn’t feel this way, don’t understand. It’s an emotional response to a perceived injustice. The purge cannot be undone. The hurt will heal with time but the relationship with LL is damaged beyond repair and things can never be the same. I cannot go back and embrace the sanctioned volunteer vision again. Too much pain and heartache. I loved being a Mentor. When I’m done grieving over the loss, I’ll try to find a reason to stay in second life. One thing at a time.

The Lindens really feel that how they treated volunteers is OK in this situation. Most companies receiving these many complaints would investigate, fix what is wrong and submit some sort of formal statement. Not this company.

I was thinking about becoming a mentor.
Now I choose not to, because such a treatment would hurt too much.

Group chat: sorry I am not online 24/7 so I do not get all of the group chat

Meetings: usually office hours and the volunteer meetings are not held at my free time

wiki: see mailing list

blog: see mailing list

mailing list: it was *never* mentioned there until people started complaining, I am not a paid employee and was told to follow that .... if LL wants me to unsubscribe from it and follow something else, tell me .... until then, I refuse to devote the time I give willingly to something to following several seperate locations just because they do not have their act together to settle on one of them

Kara you don't need to waste your time bickering with the callous residents who take joy in salting the wounds of dumped volunteers.

Some enjoy trolling threads like this to incite an emotionally response from anyone.

You know your worth and what you contributed. Keep up the good work and watch the out for the new volunteer openings.

Thanks, actually I lucked out and did hear about the renewal in time. Although my heart is no longer in it after the vteam gloated about removing people (and commented that more renewed than they expected). I am much more interested in being a secondability mentor after LL went and decided they did not need us.

WElcome to the weed pile.