Removed from Mentor Group?

Amber Linden may be nice, but her involvement in this scheme to catch hundreds of volunteers sleeping and send them e-mails saying they were removed from the group because they did not follow procedure was not very nice.

Forwards to email don't cap.

When was the last time you saw any of the VTeam post here without someone first bringing a thread to their attention? They don't use the forums for communication.

When the VTeam blog started just under a year ago they were literally shoving it down everyone's throat with a flood of notices pointing out its existance, that you should check it for new information and later on that in-world notices would be deprecated in favour of the blog (never actually happened).

A lot of subsequent notices in the past year have referred to the VTeam blog as well if not by URL then by name. If you were oblivious to the existance of it then that seems to indicate a pattern where you simply haven't been paying attention to anything to do with mentors for the entire past year.

Because they habitually post everything else on the forums? Other than a few breadcrumbs recently, Lindens don't post on the forums, least of all the VTeam.

I'm amazed people keep throwing a pity party when the only way you could have missed it is:
* you never read group notices
* you don't pay attention to group chat (mentors and Lindens alike brought it up quite often)
* you never attend the monthly meetings or read the transcripts
* you never check the wiki
* you never read the VTeam blog
* you don't read the mailing list (I'm not actually subscribed to it, but I can't imagine it didn't come up there)

You can have perfectly valid reasons for not bothering with any random one out of those 6 but if you can't be bothered to keep informed in *any* way then how exactly are you involved at all?

---

I do think most of the other criticsm is valid: they did dump whole truckloads of clueless and useless "mentors" into the group in the past year and a half and if you're going to get rid of anyone start with the ones that go "what's HI?!?" in the group or don't even know the very basics of SL and are just in the group to get help for themselves rather than be capable of helping anyone else but the VTeam seems averse to having any kind of standard.

They cap at 100.



You have it twisted. The VTeam members get paid to run an effective volunteer program. If the VTeam created 'uselss mentors' (quite a rude classification) then it is their failure - not the volunteer's fault. People that make themselves available to work for free should not be mocked.

None of what you post here are the actually facts. I was online with Live Help during the months of August and September and working in the wiki volunteer portal in order to create a new page for a group that is applying to be an official volunteer group. I had to use the Mentor group page as an example. The wiki pages I saw at that time had no mention of this process. I even have many print outs from that time period to prove it.

There is no reason for all of these volunteers that do not know each other to ban together and pretend that communications broke down during thsi process.

QFT
thanx Kitty

I do not think trolling and posting an entire forum posting over again makes any point what-so-ever. I know of a forum that if you agree with a person you can indicate it by clicking an icon. This is not that forum.

your point being?

Sigh. It's "Lindal", not Linda. I only mention this because it is an example that shows you are not paying attention. Which is what got you dropped.

LL did a *LOT* to publicize the re-registration requirement. They published it in multiple venues, and over a time period of six weeks. I'm really, really sorry that so many Mentors managed to miss all of that, but if I think like a manager of a large and diverse group, I have to ask myself, a) what more could I have done to get the word out, and b) if I used all these methods to get the word out, and people STILL didn't get it, do I really want them on my team? Since nothing I do seems to get their attention?

I know, I know...it does not seem this way to those who didn't get the word. To you, it seems like LL was keeping a secret, trying to "trick" you into missing the boat. But it wasn't so.

Even if that's the case that leaves 5 other ways you could have found out, not to mention the fact that if you know that you constantly miss things you could make the conscious effort to look at the notice history.

Being a volunteer does not mean you can just cut yourself off from the people you're "working" for and operate in a vacuum and not expect it to have consequences.

For better or worse, keeping track of what the VTeam is up to is part of being a mentor and I'm certainly not going to argue that most of their communication isn't anything I remotely care about, but I make the effort none the less.

(As an aside: how would you qualify mentors who have to ask what OI/HI means and how they get there? Or who are under the mistaken impression that mentors should act as resident police? Or who don't know what an AR is or how to file one, or don't even know what is and isn't AR'able? Etc, etc. People like that should never make it into the group, least of all with all the apprenticeship, coaching and shadowing nonsense we have now)

No need for print outs on a wiki with a change history.

"Revision as of 00:35, 27 August 2008" - http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Volunteer_Portal&oldid=88354

The announcement on the VTeam blog was made on August 26th. Taking the time difference into account the wiki was changed just before the announcement was posted on the blog.

If you looked at the volunteer portal after August 27th as you claim and didn't see it then it's not because it wasn't there.

Maybe you feel they should have shown up at your doorstep and made you take the "survey" at gunpoint so you wouldn't forget about it later, who knows.

They got plenty of things wrong with this (the non-sensical removal email, lack of announcement in languages other than English, etc) but failing to cover most bases to get word out isn't one of them in this particular case.

Clarification from a Knowledge Base FAQ as to how IMs-to-email are supposed to work (there have been significant disruptions in the past):

It seems to me that incoming IMs from Objects (e.g. Subscribe-O-Matic or griefing IMs) are not forwarded, tho they are queued and show up in chat as usual when you log in.
.

Hmmm, many times when SL bugs very bad, I cannot collect my IM's and group notices, losing everything when I log in and have to relog because everything is frozen. And they are not in my email. Not all notices are saved on the group noticed list. I logged every two and three days sometimes, because of RL activities and they do cap. No, it is not the Mentor's group fault but still, these should still stay.

Are the meetings MANDATORY? if you can't attend because of RL activities, that is a big fault?

We all help in different ways as a mentor, not just standing in Help Islands.

Well, it is strange SO many of us OLD Mentors missed so many constant notices in 6 months.. wow!, I am impressed. How in the world did I miss 6 months on everyday checking the wiki... unbelievable. I didn't know I have to read the wiki everyday. Is that a new mentor assignment and daily research, I didn't know and the reason I got kicked?

People do not volunteer to be subjected to pop-quizzes Lindal. I do not understand why some of you feel it is acceptable for volunteer coordinators to 'shake some people loose' by using some under publicized made-up policy. It is the responsibility of the Volunteer Coordinator to communicate with all of their volunteers. Linden Lab had no problem sending VAT e-mails to everyone they assumed it effected. There is abslutely no way to justify not contacting hundreds of people.

I read the chatlogs and posted many comments from VTeam Leaders. They say they chose this obscure method to see who was paying attention. Admission was made. Scroll back and you can see it. The absolutely only reason they implemented this re-certification process was to get rid of a large number of volunteers to make their group more manageable for themselves.

When they wanted all of the Greeters to take the mentor tag they asked us all to put in a ticket to recieve an invite. Not all greeters got that message right away. Once they were booted from the Greeter group they contacted a Vteam member and recived their tag. That is the only decent thing to do. It is outrageous to use a re-certification process to 'fire' long-term, dedicated volunteers. And then refuse to rectify the situation.

I find it still strange that me not being a mentor knew about this months ago. I also dont know why so many feel they must be a mentor to help. I help daily, am I a mentor? nope. I guess basically its a 'get over it' situation.

/me puts the smilies away for a moment.. (X.X)

With those 100 capped IMs, no Email forwarding of group announcements, infrequent visits to the VTeam blog, Wiki, Meetings. That sounds like someone who doesn't NEED to be in the Mentor group to be helpful.

Honestly, pat yourself on the back for being independently sufficient as a helper of new people in SL.

Don't pee and moan over the loss of an apparently prestigious tag over your head.

Use the empty group slot to find a group with an equally nice tag... Like... Say... "New Citizens Helper"... or... "Help People" ... or ... "Ask Me" ... or ... "Second Support" ... But, I guess nobody would believe you could be helpful with those tags because it's apparently ONLY Mentors that can be helpful.

If you need a real time + full time resource for information and assistance when helping new people enter this little electronic world of ours; the Mentor group is for you. But, if you're fully capable of being helpful on your own independent means; who cares what group you're a member of? Particularly noobies. People know you're helpful WHEN you help them, not when you tag yourself with a title.

Now... Excuse me while I spend a bit of time helping people with my "Batteries Included" tag over my head.

Maybe by you know.. MENTORING as opposed to keeping up with the constant spam from the group. I work full time, I can't attend the meeting which are held for the most part during the day and I never checked the mentor blog, I didn't know it existed.

This doesn't make me a worse mentor. It makes me a busy person who would rather help people out than read blogs and attend meetings.

The fact that there wasn't even a "thank you for your time" in the email I received informing me I had been tossed out of the group was pathetic.

A mentor tag doesn't make you stronger or whatever... makes you proud to wear a title for whatever reason you are part of it. Yeah, I have been helping many years in SL even now with the Free Dove.. but made me proud I could say I was a mentor too when I showed my tag. It is an individual feeling.... I dont see the name "Second Life Mentor" as any generic name either.

Exactly how people say, "oh I don't have to sign married papers or carry my partner's last name, I still feel married" just an individual decision of how people feel.

I am not "peeing or moaning" because I lost a tag, that is kinda insulting for me in a way. I just "enjoy" showing it to new people that I was a mentor because I was proud of belonging to well known group. Geeez!


I am sure we all have certain individual ideas and do things that makes us proud. And that well, people recognize with titles, ect...


In many occasions too, I received comments of people that felt more secure when they saw the title over my head and I was helping believe it or not. People come to you.. ."I see you are a mentor, may I ask you something? People see the tag and come straight to you. Why do people use signs too? Identifies you. Period.

Sure, now I will use the empty spot for another useful group. Probably one of my own. But let me tell ya, I held that mentor title for a long time and never had the doubt to drop the group.

I know we all have our opinions. A title doesn't make you stronger or it doesn't mean because you don't have it you can't help anymore, of course that is not the case... But then, why do we use groups with titles? For identification.

I did not constantly miss things. I received Mentor m\notices about Burning Life, Mentor Educators and some new HIs. As many of us have. Using group notices to contact a huge group is always a bad idea.

Utter nonsense. I use the Linden Google Calendar to attend Linden Meetings - that is how I found out about 'megahubs' and some other very good information that effects volunteering. It is just not possible for you to justify the fact that the Volunteer Coordinators did not speak to their volunteers. Obviously if a sim holds 100 avatars - then the majority of members do not attend in-world meetings. The Lindens have always been aware of this and have done nothing to rectify the problem. Offline Notices cap at 100. Linden Lab knowing all of this should have no relied on such an unreliable system to inform 3,700 residents of a policy change. Even the adfarmers had a warning after October 1st that was sent to their e-mail address on file.

Wrong. you got it twisted. The Volunteer Coordiantor's job is to communicate with her team members - not put a policy in place that shakes loose a few hundred so her job is easier.

You educate them over and over again. That is the volunteer coordinator's paid job. You send out quizzes and those that get them in and answer correctly get some sort of prize. Positive reinforcement. Go through the list and see who has not completed any quizzes and talk to them about what they need to do to increase their skill base. Open a Mentor University and offer certificates of completion for those that take the classes. Create new Mentor classifications for mentors that pursue certifications.

There is just so many POSITIVE ways to strengthen the Mentor Team without resorting to creating all of this negative drama.

I do not know what you do for a living but I work with people. And when you work with people you are responsible to contact each person - and not blame them when you do not do your job. But the point was to NOT contact people so the Mentor group numbers would go down. Dastardly mission accomplished.

The dissolving of the Live Help group which I was part of was done in a similar manner. Poof.

I'm not hung up on groups. I'm kind of hung up on the way LL treats their volunteers like yesterday's leftovers once they're done with us. Would a "thank you" have killed them? It just seems like such a shitty way to end things for a group of people who donated their time and who wanted to help the company and new players.

They do all this... It's right here: http://vteamblog.com/

As VooDoo already pointed out, it wasn't a problem for them to contact everyone regarding the VAT issue by email. They could have at least extended the same courtesy to the mentors.

the first one to go under was SL Instructor. when it ended I didnt feel I was owed a thank you. I volunteered and expected only to teach... Next I was in the Mentor group, 3 years I beleve... Also was in Live Help for 2 years. The one I was saddest to see go was LH. But I realized there's more efficient ways of handling repetative questions. The Mentor group I left on my own due to the bickering, such as this thread. Now that it is weeded out I may reapply. Should I expect special treatment or a thanx? nope. If I dont reapply I will continue to help new rezzies. I do it for them, not a title or a thanx.

vat had nothing to do with weeding out the mentor group

"Thank You" is not special treatment. It's an expression of gratitude. Toy, you seem to think a simple "thank you for your time" is symptom of some sort of sense of entitlement we have for having helped out for ages. It's not. It's what you do when you have people who have tried to make your job easier for years for free. You say "thanks guys".

The sl mentor title was useful because it lends itself to new players trusting your advice and listening to you. I don't care one bit about illusions of "presitge" or whatever it is that people say the group name carried. It was a useful tag and it made me more effective at what I did. And that's why I stayed in the group.

I didn't say that. I used it as an example of how LL has used email to alert people of policy changes.

omg "Thank You "

See how easy that is? I bet you didn't even break a sweat doing it.