Removed from Mentor group, has this happened to anyone else?

Well, this is an outrageous scheme. It is no way to treat volunteers. You do not 'trick' volunteers into giving up their position in the group - you contact them and give them a choice. Out of the 3,000 Volunteer members they could have found several hundred dead accounts and people that did not wish to continue volunteering. And if these people changed their minds at a later date - they should be given the first opportunity to join a Linden Volunteer group again - since they remained eligible until this process disqualified them. And the only reason that the mentor group ballooned to this unmanageable number was because they rolled the greeters and Instructors into the Mentor Group.

I have been a resident of SL since 2005 - started as a greeter and when that group was dissolved was given some procedure to get a Mentor Tag. I use the Linden Google Calendar to attend Linden Meetings. There is one on volunteering that I frequent. That Linden in charge of the volunteer group posted on the Linden Google calendar never mentioned this re-certification process. I read the Linden Blog but never heard of the Vblog (why seperate the two?- I assume the information is accessible by everyone - so just make it a regular blog entry - or make a link to it in teh regular blog). No Sticky was added to the often silent Mentor thread in these forums.


Then Linden Lab needs to send each Mentor a membership to the VTeam Blog. I have a membership to the regular blog - the VTeam blog I only heard of but was not aware that it was mandatory reading in order to stay a volunteer.

I already responded to this on the mentor forum.
I also was recently kicked out after two years of mentoring, with the same innocuous e-mail. I am so glad that for my years of freely helping LL, I was given a boot up the A@# for my trouble.
I do not care how they justify it, or how many pawns they get running around telling me it was my fault. I never received any notifications. To add insult to injury, I was in the process of being moved by the military during this time. It would seem that LL has somehow forgotten that there is a thing called real life. It comes up every now and then.

Just a side note to Imnotgoing, who has cheerfully blasted her "I'm so informed" message on every post concerning this. I am very glad that you consider it your duty to hang onto every announcement by LL. However I disagree with your conclusion that helping people equals attending all the Mentor meetings. It's great that you want to stay informed, but do not assume that all Mentors share(d) your outlook. I was a mentor because I knew a large amount about SL; from scripting tricks, to troubleshooting, to the history of the Jessie Wars or where a good place to buy hair was, that was the type of information that I found valuable. Any major changes to the TOS or other wide spread practices I stayed abreast of. Other than that, I would rather spend my time actually helping, rather then sitting in yet another beauracratic meeting.

No I don't need the tag, which is why I also will not be re-applying. And despite the suggestion of some that this means I did not need to be a Mentor in the first place, it is more a matter of principle.
Cheers

I sent Amber Linden a notecard concerning this the day this thread was posted. She responded it was too late for all those that did not respond. The effort she takes to weed through the group and send the e-mail to each individual that did not respond could be used to contact these people to make sure they were informed in the first place.

I sent info to Robin Linden (VP Linden Lab) and her assistant. Hopefully we can get this sorted.

what is the sense of reapplying if everyone is sent a email asking them to reapply?


Getting furious because you chose to not be informed is a good way of weeding the group, something thats been needed for years.

If you missed the reapply just apply again. Simple. Thinking longevity is an excuse is kinda rediculous. Being a mentor for years does not earn priviledge.

I initially became a mentor in 04 but quit after 3 years or more because the group had become so lax in making a mentor and became so bloated with people.

I congratulate them for weeding it out.

__
( )
| |
/___\
(_____)

Look, there goes one now.

/me waves at pawn

They do. When I was accepted into the Apprentice Mentor group, I was provided with a link to the Volunteer page, which in turn contains a link to the VTeam blog, among other resources. I was also given the information necessary to subscribe to the volunteer email digest.

Neither one is "mandatory" reading, but it's a very good idea to do so, to keep informed. Even if you didn't see the renewal information in these places, as Immy has pointed out, it was announced elsewhere as well.

When did I say that? (O.o)

Actually, I miss most of the mentor meetings, but often the minutes of the more important meetings are posted. (^_^)

Still... Being helpful is being helpful, tag or not. Being a Mentor is having access to resources that most residents don't regularly have access to and using those resources to be as helpful as possible. (^_^)y

...i agree. i didnt get any notice that i was going to be terminated. im not happy that they couldnt send me an email saying i was going to be kicked out if i didnt renew. i had no idea i had to renew anything.

As I recall, those of us already in the group since 2006 did not need to go to any training. So we did not have to receive those links. I stuck to what I knew- the SL Blog, The Forums and the Linden Google Calendar. When Robin ran the Greeter Group it was a simpler time

Not 'everywhere else - as I have pointed out. Not in the SL blog, not in a sticky in the SL Forums and not at any volunteer meetings that were listed in the Linden Google Calendar. A opt-in e-mail would have sufficed.

Agreed. These 3000 people out of 6 million were hand-picked by Linden Lab employees and deemed knowledgeable enough to be unpaid greeters, educators and representatives of Second Life.

Lindens have decided to open up the greeter program again. In 2006 hundreds of Greeters were told they had to become Mentors because they disbanded the greeter group. The same for the instructor group. These actions made this massive group. And then they recruited even more in 2007. Move the Greeters back to their group and the Instructors can be Mentor Instructors. Problem solved without the carnage and bad press.

Toy never fails to entertain.

and your point is?

The POINT is that this entire situation was created by mismanaging volunteers in the first place. It was further compounded by lack of information and vision on the part of the volunteer coordinators. When they accepted my happy butt into the Mentors, the term VTeam did not exist. Like Voodoo I have stuck to what I knew, and to the principles and responsibilities that I was charged with. In educating the populace at large, in providing help to those in need, in greeting those new to SL and helping them establish themselves.
It was a simpler time, and the Mentor group was just a way to loosely affiliate and share information. Like when copybot hit, the mentor chat was lit up like a Christmas tree and accurate information was able to be passed quickly and disseminated to thousands of volunteer residents, who were in turn able to help with crowd control. We banded together
when needed, but otherwise you were free to do your own thing.

The underlying problem here is that LL has decided to change structure and policy on multiple occasions, and this is just another example. It happens, but the fact is that inevitably you're going to screw the very people who are helping you in the process.
I am not sure why any of us think that LL has any loyalty to us, and if we were deluded enough to think so then the present circumstances should indicate the fallacy of that mindset. LL is a company, they want to make money. The volunteer programs, in reality, are nothing but crowd sourcing to save them overhead. Imagine the cost in personnel and time they would have to spend in order to do the job's we happily do for free. I don't expect even a thank you, but to be given the shaft in such an impersonal and MISLEADING way is intolerable. The e-mail couldn't just be strait forwards and say "We kicked you out of the mentor group. Thanks for playing". No, I had to come to the forums just to figure out what was going on. Not cool.

Perhaps Toy had a point, that the mentors were too bloated (due to the action of merging multiple volunteer programs, but hey I am sure it was somehow our fault that they had to do that, right Pawn?). So rather than intelligently soliciting an e-mail request to verify interest in remaining a volunteer, they come up with a scheme to kill off a couple hundred of us. And then blame us for our lack of "interest'.
So enjoy your time in the volunteers, those of you who are left. But don't be surprised the day you are thrown out with the rest of the garbage.
Cheers.

Selective quoting from the Monthly Mentor Meeting minutes:
http://vteamblog.com/2008/09/29/monthly-mentor-meeting-92608-5pm-pdt/

YES I KNOW I WASN'T THERE.

(on the subject of improving standards, including people in the new Greeters group)
Blue Linden shouts: Menolly, we don’t want to kick mentors out…
.....
Blue Linden shouts: nobody gets kicked out…we are not closing the mentors group
...
George Linden shouts: But think of the 50% of Mentors who never make it to a meeting.. come back months after a break from SL not knowing where the OIs went.. or folks who are wearing the Mentor title for poor reasons… this will help raise standards at the entry areas (*blushes* at the middle bit, though this is about not allowing us into the Greeter group not kicking us out entirely of the process)
.....
Will Webb: i thought the herd was getting culled at the end of the month

Will Webb: didnt we have to confirm our mentor status a few weeks ago ?

Blue Linden: well…closing enrollment will mean slow reduction in size

Bastien Culdesac: survival of the fittest - good for the dynamics of the group

Blue Linden: bad mentors get tossed out at the rate of roughly 5-8 a month

doug Donovan: theres bad mentors?!

Mrs Sterling shouts: yes there are i have met some

Blue Linden: apprentice ship was raising bar to entry

Blue Linden shouts: lowering bar to exit is a bit different hehe

Alida Tomsen is curious as to what makes a “bad mentor”

Will Webb: that’s the point right ? raise the entry bar keeps the level up, and not being afraid to remove bad apples keeps it up

Blue Linden: Alida….scamming newbies…copybot violations, to name two things

Alida Tomsen: Oh, my….. I guess I just assumed that those of us who are willing to help are nice enough not to be jerks

Blue Linden: lol Alida…some people are not fully altruistic

Blue Linden: power hungry even….we’ve caught mentors extorting newbies….

Blue Linden: which makes them corrupt AND stupid as newbies have no L$ ;p

Doctor Gascoigne: where are the bad mentors

Jessica Lyon: likely wont see the bad mentors at any meetings
......


Jessica Lyon: how can lindens screen 3500 mentors and guess who are the ones who greif

Jessica Lyon: it isnt feasable

Derek Sienkiewicz: 1800 jessica

Jessica Lyon: 1800? wow

Jessica Lyon: when did that happen?

Jessica Lyon: < checks

Blue Linden: we can screen employees thoroughly….but we can’t do it for volunteers

Alida Tomsen: 1800? But there are like 3600 plus in the group, afiak, yes?

Bastien Culdesac: jess - 1800= roughly how many have renewed

Jessica Lyon: ooh ok ya

Jessica Lyon: well, more may still renew

Bastien Culdesac: the dealine is like monday

Derek Sienkiewicz: blue, update on those registered now please

Mrs Sterling: we all have to renew?

Menolly Riederer: have you not renewed mrs sterling?

Mrs Sterling: no

Alida Tomsen: Mrs Sterling, we all had to fill out a form again to renew. Couple weeks ago that went out?

Blue Linden: checking on total number currently…but renewals look to be about 50%

Mrs Sterling: eeeeer where do i do this at lol

Menolly Riederer: blue can you put up the link for the renewal please

Kelindra Talamasca: someone just paste the link please who may have it handy for those that missed it

Blue Linden: it’s on VTeamblog.com I believ Menolly…i don’t have it infront of me

Contessa Marquez: group notices

Blue Linden: Derek…total mentor group is ~3700

Will Webb shouts: george: for next renewal: pls have a way to tell us whether the renewal worked; i’d rather not be surprised

Derek Sienkiewicz: and the number of registered i will ask you in october?

Blue Linden: hehe Derek, we’ll see how renewals effect the number ㋡

Mrs Sterling: i’m going to go read the blog and sort this all out

And from the aug meeting:
George Linden: The Mentor Renewal Program should help to increase the focus of the program by restructuring the group to include only current members with a degree of activity.
......

Mia Linden: what are you doing to annouce the mentor renewal requirement? I never saw an announcement.

George Linden: We have sent out one group notice earlier this week so far, and as we have pushed relentlessly for Mentors to check into vteamblog.com on at least a weekly basis, there is a post at vteamblog.com with all the information for renewals. On the left hand side of vteamblog.com is also a notice about the renewal program.-

George Linden: However, we know that Group Notices don’t always reach every Second Life Mentor member,

George Linden: So we are going to send out group notices about the renewal effort once or twice a week. Fortunately, anyone who keeps up with vteamblog.com has no risk of being out of the loop! But we’ll make sure to message renewals hard so that folks can see it.

Mia Linden: Question: *Why* is there a renewal for the SL Mentors in the first place, besides forcing those that miss the deadline somehow to do orientation and all again? All current mentors are qualified already, aren’t they? Also, will this be happening every year now or something?

Lexie Linden: We will also mention it in office hours and it is on the wiki

George Linden: There is no plan to do renewals on a quarterly or yearly basis at this time, but we’ll investigate options at a later date. The reasons for renewals are explained at the wiki page, but..

George Linden: To reiterate, this will help sharpen the group’s numbers to active participants.

George Linden: While it might make sense that a Mentor who hasn’t logged in in months met the requirements of time past to join the group,

George Linden: It’s safe to say enough has changed not only in Second Life (how many new viewers have there been? X) ) but also the number of changes that have gone on in the Second Life Mentor program.

George Linden: For example, a Mentor who logs in after a few years of not logging in, jumps into the Second Life Mentor group channel to chat it up, like the old days.

George Linden: Is met with a tap on the shoulder and is not sure where the new guidelines came from.

George Linden: An up to date group is a focused group. We will continue to support activity in the Second Life Mentor program as best as we can and help ensure that the numbers of members/roles in the group reflect a degree of activity. ㋡

.....

Mia Linden: A friend of mine has recently (w/in the past 2 mo’s) become a Mentor. I reminded her today about renewing, but she said she hadn’t gotten anything. May I presume the new folks don’t need to renew b/c they’re still fairly fresh?
Mia Linden: Every mentor must renew
Mia Linden: even new mentors
Lexie Linden: Right
Mia Linden: As lexie explained
Lexie Linden: If you are a Mentor…Renew!
Mia Linden: its a simple process and only takes a few moments of your time
Mia Linden: versus not renewing and having to go through mentor application process again

most amazing to me is that it looks like around half of the mentors have not renewed - surely that's not what the Lindens expected to happen?!

You cannot just call anyone a Volunteer Coordinator. It is a skilled, professional position. Someone from Linden Lab needs to hit the reset button on this entire ugly mess and start over. Give the discarded people back their tags, split the Mentor group up into smaller, more focused groups to make them all more manageable and work tirelessly to have all volunteers submit their electronically signed volunteer contract.

You are correct. From comments made on the mailing list I believe they were expecting only 10-20% were paying attention to updates and were blown away that it was as high as 50%.

I somehow missed the notices that I was to renew. I was probably in the hospital or recovering from some procedure and had to take some time from Secondlife. I took a lot of pride in the fact I was a mentor and I thought the tag identified that I could be trusted to help. I was on Help Island 9 when I realized I didn't have my tag anymore. I find this very very sad..

Groove I am so sorry you were treated this way by a multi-mllion dollar company that you volunteered your time and energy to. They do not understand that volunteering is an emotional commitment also. As the VTeam Leaders giggled about their perfect scheme to kick people out of the Mentor group and their fanbois applaud ther success - they fail to realize the horrble thing they have done to real people.

Well, my reason for not having been informed was that I was offline from early August to early October for RL job reasons that made me move in RL and suffer the inability of ISPs to offer a quick service in the new flat.

So I definitely had NO CHANCE to hear of the deadline, neither the start nor the end.

Yep, I was in internet cafes to check my mail, but had no time to check all blogs nor the mailing lists. I answered the most urgend mails, but could not get informed or react in any way.

A warning mail would have helped, but as you all admit, that never came and was never planned, cause LL sees the only way to be active is to read the blog and wiki regularly.

OK, now I am out, however ...

I am part of the GWA project and definitely claim to have saved it throuth its worst time and the concept I had set up and published in the volunteers wiki is now definitely built. Yes, they invite me to go on working there, but it's not as a mentor, but just as a builder and when parts of the sims will get closes for public access, I can not even visit the work I gave to the newbies and the Lindens.

Another thing: I was made officer in the German mentors group, due to the good work I committed to the GWA project. They now decide to change rules for that group to keep those mentors that - for whatever reason - missed the deadline.
So the current state is, I am officer of a mentor only group, without being a mentor myself and members plan to change rules.

Third thing: I prepared classes (5 are ready to be taught bilingual) for the mentor coaches project Weekend of Learning. I asked Simon, he wants me to teach in November, but again imagine: I will teach there in a Mentor Coaches teaching project without being a mentor ...

+++++

Funny state I am in, doing all the work that a mentor does (only not on OI and HI), giving time and money for the work that mentor coaches claim to be their gift to the residents, being officer in a mentor group ... yes, I AM a mentor, even a mentor coach, though I can't wear the tag.

As I hear from many people that missed the deadline and would like to stay a mentor, a volunteer, what I see is a great confusion, leading to groups changing their rules to be able to keep together and continue the work for new residents, the new customers of LL.

+++++

Well, I got a mail from Amber, and that really saddens me.

No way to be reinstated. No way to apply new now, because applications are closed. From the answer I doubt that she even read my reasons, cause she wonders how I could miss a 6 weeks deadline.
I had clearly told the reason: because I was off, means without internet connection for 8 weeks.

She says, VTeam finds it unfair to judge each resident individually. That's the reason, why they do not look, why I missed the deadline.

Well, I have to accept that, but from my perception that is totally against the idea of voluntaring and even the TAO.

For me, the mentor job was judging and validating each new resident, each new customer INDIVIDUALLY, asking for their needs, their wishes, their problems and to help them with what they individually needed.
My work always aimed to the individuals who had decided to join SL, to become residents, to become CUSTOMERS, and give them the best individual customer service that I could offer.

Now being told, that indivudual judging and validation is not what will happen in the VTeam is just beyond my logic.

Sorry Amber, but I don't understand this lack of will to offer customer service especially to those who not only give their money to the account costs, to tiers etc, but also commit work and time and more money for voluntary customer support.

+++++

Last thing:
When I was a mentor, I was often laughed at. "Hey, Danziel, they only want your time and your skills. They will not appreciate it, only by words or a party or two a year. At the end they will not even know you."
Well I fought for LL that time and even said: "No, it's a good thing to do mentors work. It's appreciated by the Lindens and they will stand by me."
I got more laughter for such words by some dorks ...

Now I returned after 8 weeks of offline time. I will meet those dorks soon. I hate to go there. But I will do. Let them laugh.

+++++

Well, this is my story.
Compare to the answers and judgments you gave before in this thread.

I cannot agree to the idea that residents cannot be treated, judged, valued as individuals and that neither mentors ... former mentors ... can.

I find it unfair NOT TO JUDGE (or value) INDIVIDUALLY, cause that is part of customer support and customer service in any modern company.

I have no hope to be reinstated, no hope that VTeam will reconsider.

So I will wait till application reopens and hopefully might get the tag some day next year or so. Till then I am cut off from resources that would help a lot, from communication to a great part of you, from information from the mail list, from anything that Lindens offers to mentors to make it an easier job.
Nevertheles I still feel as a and BE a mentor, mentor buddy and even mentor coach and do the work of all three as good as I can, no matter if I got the official tag.

Yes, Amber I do not need the tag to do good work, but it would help a lot.

Thanks to those of you who correctly stated that volunteering as a big emotional aspect and being kicked of for simply having been in hospital or moving without being heard, is just a slap in the face. I really hope VTeam will reconsider and change their plans about reinstatements. I guess, there are just too many requests now, so they see a lot of work.

But think of it: those mentors that now request their reinstatements with great energy must be those who are really interested and motivated, even if their words might sound angry now.

It would be a sign of appreciation of the volunteers work, if you would reconsider your idea to NOT judge and valus mentors individually.

Long text, thanks for reading.
And sorry for those who think, that at some paragraphs it sounds like drama.

Have a nice day mentors and SL residents.

I didnt get a chance to go to the V-team meetings, like most people in the REAL world I have to work. But then again the Linden Team, this is their job. I cant get to a meeting that is 4pm in the afternoon.....I'M Working

Sure was nice of you to let me know, I find it strange you can send me an e-mail telling me to F*&$ off, but not one to ask me to renew.

DAMN I FEEL USED

I helped more than just a few mentors get started with the buddy program, and countless newbies have stayed in SL by me helping them when they were lost and about to give up. I was up until 3 and 4 in the morning more times than i can count helping new people find the joy in Second Life.

I now find that a lot of my mentor friends(kicked out) are leaving. With my friends gone and the crap treatment by Linden, I see no reason to stay.

Second Life is such a special place, with all there is to do, see, build, it is such a shame that so many that helped build it to what it is today, are just kicked aside like dirty cat box litter.

to have a STAKE in second life's future u need to weather the rough patches. u were a volunteer. ur services are no longer need. find some other way to help.b eing a mentor is not just a tag. and i heard that out of Amber Linden's mouth itself. now if all u want to do is feel special caws ur a mentor then the group wasnt for u anyways.

It does seem more and more that this 'VTeam' seems to have come out of this looking like the Power Rangers (although I'm sure they were hoping for something more along the lines of the Justice League). After having read this and the other thread with regard to the same issue, it does appear as though it is the older, (possibly) wiser members of the Mentor group that have really been handed the not-so-clean end of the stick, and that is a real shame.

The loss is not likely to affect just those genuine volunteers who have been unceremoniously dumped from the group, but also the mentor group in it's new form (the majority of which apparently need to constantly refer to half a dozen off-world websites to make sure they have packed everything necessary for their evening's work). Most importantly though, the biggest loss will be felt by those new registrees who, unbeknownest to them, has lost out on an incredibly valuable resource.

I was a Mentor once. At the time I joined, there was no need for testing, re-testing, blog checking, site checking, or any of the other now-necessary tasks needed to be ticked off before you were allowed to join, or even stay in the group. I had never heard of a VTeam. For my own reasons, I quit the group; but every day I continue to help a variety of different people in so many different ways. I'm not good at building, I can texture something the better side of adequate and I am useless at scripting. But I continue to develop and use my own networks of contacts in-world that help me help others. And not one of them is a Mentor. I sometimes consider that a detriment. It's a useful group of folk to know.

I am certain that LL felt this course of action to be the right one - it is inevitable that there would be dead or apathetic accounts in such a large group - but once again, their continued failure to properly communicate with residents has shown them in a very bad light. I am 100% certain that every remaining member of the Mentor group has the interests of residents at its very heart. But I would urge that group to do one thing: refer to this thread in times of need. Look at the names of those disgruntled few (not to take anything away from your disappointment) and look them up in-world. If they are as passionate about helping others as they have been to show how emotional they feel about this, then you will have a very good network to fall back on.

As I said in the other thread, being helpful does not stop with not being a mentor. And Lindens - wise up your act and start looking at how to communicate things better. Or at all. All of the people here complaining about their treatment haven't logged onto the forums to make this stuff up.

I am not one to accept wrong doings 'because the bureaucrat said so'. Linden Lab owes the Mentors the same courtesy they extended to the adfarmers. When adfarmers did not comply with the October 1st deadline they were sent a personal e-mail from Linden Lab and given an extention to comply.

Linden Lab needs to send a e-mail to all of the mentors they kicked out and offer them the opportunity to comply. This double stamdard needs to be rectified immediately.