Politics, Racism & Business

Censorship. Lovely, an organization that claims to be for freedom is calling for "the removal of the Conferate flag from all public properties." I don't see them calling for the removal of things such as the Star of David, do you?

I wonder if a NAAWP (relace colored with white) would be called racist..

ugh more double standards

Did I mention i don't celebrate any minority history week/month until theres one for european american males?

http://www.spectacle.org/freespch/musm/hate.html

From: someone

<H2>Hate Speech

Hate speech--in this country, principally racist and anti-Semitic speech--has always been recognized as First Amendment-protected. There is no First Amendment exception for hate speech, so unless it fits into one of the other pigeonholes--libel, obscenity, or fighting words--it receives the same guarantees as any other speech.

In recent years, the Supreme Court has held in RAV v. City of St. Paul that an ordinance aimed at cross-burning was an unconstitutional content-based regulation because it only banned cross-burning which constituted hate speech (an ordinance which banned burning any wooden object on lawns might have been constitutional). Also, a federal court recognized the right of the American Nazi Party to march through a Jewish suburb of Skokie, Illinois.

In a 1950's case, Beauharnais v. Illinois, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of a state "group libel" law, which gave racial, ethnic and other groups the same right to sue for libel as individuals. Although Beauharnais has never been over-ruled, it is almost certainly a dead letter in light of RAV and numerous other cases. Canada, Great Britain, Germany and numerous other Western democracies ban hate speech and there is an ongoing debate whether doing so undermines the fundamental tenet of a liberal democracy. Professor Catharine MacKinnon in her book Only Words draws the parallel between hate speech and pornography and observes that principles of free speech and equality are at war in this country. Nadine Strossen, president of the ACLU, replies that laws against speech are always used to ban unpopular minority speech rather than well-settled majority vices or prejudices. Just as Canada has used its official adoption of Mackinnon's principles to ban gay and lesbian speech, while mainstream pornography thrives, British hate speech prosecutions tend to target black groups rather than white skinheads.

</H2>

I flatly refuse to buy anything from that Chip Midnight guy. What an ass!

I don't know that I would judge the meaning behind a symbol, but if someone did say something obviously racist, I would not buy from them again.

Also, if someone is rude, cheats someone or photosources, I will never buy from them, and I will advise my friends not to as well. I was at a meeting once where a content creator was snarky with folks there. She lost my business in an instant. There are too many choices in SL to buy from people who at the very least, can't ask for what they need politely, and at the most, are racist.

When I had a house in-world I displayed the English flag for two reasons. 1) I love my country. 2) It was something other English people would instantly recognise and feel pleased to see.

As soon as I get a house again up will go my flag. It isn't anything to do with hatred of non-English people. Anyone who feels offended by it is welcome not to buy my traditional seaside hankie hat. Actually no-one can buy it just now as it's not available anymore.

I would hardly call that an unbiased source.

Oh Garnet!!! Many's the day at the beach wearing a hankie hat!! Memories!
For those not blessed with the UK's "golden sands....and seaside amusements", the hankie hat is a HUGE part of growing up! The first time you realise that your father is embarrassing you when he wears one to the fish and chip shop on the seafront, is the first step to puberty..
(For anyone unsure...the hankie hat is simply a large handkerchief, tied in a knot on each corner and worn to keep off the sun! Bliss...thank you Garnet for the fuzzy memory...))

Treading treacherously close to stereotyping.

Wow. That's some of the most badly written, offensive tripe masquerading as "tollerance" that I've seen out of an American orginization recently. Not surprising, given that the orginization's stated purpose can be summed up as "tollerance means ignornace".

It basicly ignores the history behind the civil war in favor of the 30-second version of the Civil War. The Civil War was *not* about slavery. Slavery was a symptom of the broader issues, namely states rights and a loss of voice in the affairs of the nation, as they percieved it. Slaves weren't vital to the southern economy, and everyone knew it - witness the fact that the southern economy survived the loss of slavery with only minimal upset. It's akin to two brothers fighting over one of them getting more icecream than the other - the icecream itself isn't what they are fighting about, it's just the chosen battleground.

Then lets look at this line... "Some people assert that the Confederate flag is a symbol of their heritage, however, for many people of color and religious minorities across the United States and other communities around the world, the Confederate flag represents hatred, bigotry, racism, and anti-Semitism." O RLY! I love how they just brush over the first group as "some people"... That's like saying "some people think the earth is flat", particularly when the next group is "many". "Some people believe the earth is flat, but many people think they are a bunch of nutters".

Hated, bigotry, racism, and anti-semitism have been *given* to the flag, mostly as a result of a few redneck hate groups. They are not inherent in the flag.

Again, it must be pointed out, too, that it is *not* the "Confederate Flag". It's the *battle flag*. The Confederate Flag is another flag alltogether. That right there is a serious blow to the "accuracy" of this article.

The rest of that paragraph is bunk - It only has any meaning if you accept that the flag IS a racist symbol, which it isn't. It reads like someone saying "While some people consider grapefruits healthy, many people consider them poisonous... The poison control center says poisons should be avoided at all costs, so one must avoid grapefruits at all costs." It only works if you accept that the person isn't off their rocker in their assertation about grapefruits.

""The (Confederate) flag is representative of an era that epitomized everything that was wrong and inhumane in this country and should be stripped of any sovereignty context and placed into a historical context." Again, O RLY? A lot of bad shit has happened under almost any flag you can care to name. PEOPLE DO BAD SHIT. FLAGS DON'T DO SHIT. As far as it goes, a lot of that "era" was a damn fine era. Yes, slavery was horrible, but there was a lot of good back then too. And as far as being "stripped of any soverignty context"[sic]... Christ what a misuse of a word, but I think I see what they are saying. I'm guessing they mean "it should be stripped of meaning", which, guess what, is not in the power of *anyone* to do, be it government, orginization, religion, or otherwise.

I dunno. A Harvard professor named John Coski wrote a book on this subject (which I did not read yet) called "Confederate Battle Flag: America's Most Embattled Emblem". One of his colleagues wrote this in the Amazon review section (yeah, not a very unbiased source, nor is there any way to prove he's a colleague of John Coski):



There's more than that quote there, but it's too long to post. Other reviewers gave the book and author glowing praise for treating the subject objectively.

Regardless, as to the NAACP being an unbiased source, sure, I can agree they are not, but they give a perspective that has been sadly lacking in this thread, that of black Americans.

From that review you quoted:

What is the Confederate Battle Flag to you? This is the question each person must answer. If it is a symbol of history and honored ancestors let us work hard to keep it in that perspective. If it is a symbol of racism please understand that it is NOT that to everyone.

It seems a little biased to say to one set of people "please remember that to some people it is not a symbol of racism" without also saying to others "please remember that to some people it is a symbol of racism".

Uh, President's Day???

This is so.

On the other hand, an awful lot of the negative feelings attributed to the Confederate battle flag could be attributed to the American flag if you look worldwide, so... who judges?

I have run up the flag of my native country The Ryukyu Kingdom! I dont think many people will regonise it since it is a history that is not taught in our schools. They are trying to stamp out our native language Hogan and replace it with theirs.

Perhaps we should just try and get along with each other and be understanding of others. You can only be offended if you let yourself be offended.

ALL thinking human beings should be offended by racism.

The implication that some folks might not get it as well because they (maybe) don't have dark skin or certain ancestry . . . is racist.

Minorities can't be racist.

Minorites are often racist.

But they can't be. I've been assured as much several times by racist minorities.

Oh, wait.

Let me quote my last sociology course. Individuals can be racially biased, but "racism" in the formal sense is a societial, institutionalized form of oppression. This obviously isn't very much like the common usage of the term, but it's a useful division; A society can be racist without necessarily being run by biased individuals. If all the companies are run by rich white guys, and those white guys tend to hang out with other rich white guys, and thus when it comes time to hire and promote those rich white guys (or white guys who are very good at looking rich) will have an advantage, even if none of them are bigoted in the usual sense.

So, "minorities can't be racist" is correct insofar as powerless minorities cannot exert any oppression on the powerful, but in the common usage of "racist = bigot" it is obviously quite wrong.

I made my subtle comment because I was appalled to see you respond to a post about the Confederate flag and racism by referring to the negative connotations associated with watermelons and African-Americans. Your response to my post is to change your title to 'Watermelinden". So now I get your racially motivated insult in my face everytime I browse through the forums.

As a leader in the community team I would think you would be a little more considerate of the poeple that pay your salary. I respectfully request that you remove all mention of watermelons from your forum title. Thank you.

Man what

Surreal moment of the day! But being me, it happens...

I'm going to explain more......



At first, I wasn't sure how to interpret this. But of course, since there are no emoticons or other indicators of humor, I asked bladyblue if she meant it seriously. And yes, she does, so I'll address this respectfully and as earnestly as I possibly can.

First, when I mentioned "watermelon", I was referring to myself and how much I love the fruit. This is a deeply personal thing in my family history, and one I take very seriously. I'm partially of Asian heritage, and indeed, where my biological father grew up in rural China, there are epic stories of "watermelon folk heroes" associated with that--which aren't well-known in America, but are no less valid. The watermelon was highly regarded as a sign of freedom and opportunity, including to some of the Hakka people who I am descended from, and indeed, to the present, it's celebrated in art. That was a big part of my childhood, and continues to this day.

My forum title wasn't changed to "Watermelinden" just now. It was, infact, meant to be this way since I became Torley Linden, which was over a month ago. It was previously "Waterme|inden" but I had this fixed.

Insofar as watermelon connotations go, the only one I'm going to apply is to me--simply because this is how I've come to be associated with in SL. And as I made clear in my original posting in this thread:



The very first # of the Community Standards is combating intolerance. And as I mentioned, context.

Doing a forum search for watermelons will show my dedicated history to watermelons, and that I have never used it in a negative context against another, let alone to hurtfully insult someone. For me to remove watermelons would be to remove my optimism and enthusiasm, as I have always used it as a symbol of my positive passion for being here in Second Life.

I apologize for any misunderstanding, but I would have appreciated being asked about this so I could explain more about my experiences. I continue to be here for questions, answers, and discussion.

Watermelons have quenched my thirst and given me hope, and past that literal meaning, it is that hope I carry on into here, for a brighter future for all of us, inclusive of where we came from, and in acknowledging our travels together!

There is nothing surreal about your watermelon statement. It is as clear as day.


You are desperately in need of a cultural sensitivity class.



This was not a response to a thread about 'My favorite Fruit'. It was a response to a thread about racism. You read a thread about racism and you automatically think 'I love watermelon!' and then you quickly post how the watermelon isnt a symbol of a negative racial streotype but a yummy fruit. To many African Americans it means both. And in a forum thread about racism it is definitely a negative stereotype. There was no mention of watermelons and their meaning in this thread until you mentioned it. And to add insult to injury - after I suggest that your watermelon comment was a bit insulting - you change your forum title to 'Watermelinden' (passive agressive). When we spoke in-world you let me know that you have 'black friends'. If these 'black friends' happen to read your watermelon comments and see your forum title you won't have these friends for long. As a member of the community team you should have some knowledge of other cultures and what is considered a racist remark.



There's no getting through to you - you have thrown up your 30 foot wall of ignorance and insensitivity.