Is SL Fascist?

I post almost the same in another forum about the same subject LOL.

There a several definitions of facism but most of them include some terms of interest in this discussion:

- Government: well, the lindens dont act as a real government... more like Gods. They create the world (with what you can call "physical rules" and a legal agreement you must accept and respect while you are in SL). So I am not convince the Lindens act as a ral goverment, they rarely (if they ever) act as justice system, neither as a police service (more than to enforce the agreement and the respect of the "physical laws" they created, as for example prevent some hacker to denial de service of the grid by using a bug). They dont charge taxes in exchange of public services (they charge for the mantain the world running but not for public services), etc, etc, etc.

- Dictatorship. I lived in a country with a long history of totalitarism... I don't think this world is under a totalitarism goverment. But each of us can think whatever desire.

- Strict economics controls. Nop, I don't see that neither.

- Censorship. I can run naked in mature sim and no one can't prevent it!!!! This is the world were the idea that "my freedom ends where start the other's freedom" is more strength than ever. Where is the censorhip?

- Use of force and terror. Is anyone of you under terror?

- Racism. Where? Not in SL... more than that the agreement enforced by the Lindens prohibit racism. Here we are all equal!

- Belligerent. Are we at war? OMG! Will I have to be a conscript!

We should be careful when we use some words like facist. If we call the Lindens Facists because they impose just one law, that doesnt violate any human right (on contrair, the law they impose protect privacy and fights racism), then how will we call people like Hitler or Stalin? Hype-uber-huge-Facists?

What I mean is that when we use some words too easily we run the risk of making some people to forget what the real facism is.

I am not sure if I am explaining my point clearly... just ask questions or disagree with me

I agree with the people that said that LL is a company. But SL, for me, is a little more complicated because its a world in itself... even part of our reality... and I think is a life experience where you can meet different people and learn a lot about them and yourself too.

So... the huge questions is: does this "place" has some kind of goverment? LOL I dont think so. It has Game Master (Gods) but no goverment. And the Gods enforce a law that doesnt go agaisnt any human right.

Will it have a goverment? No idea. I think it depends in the law that the Gods implement and in our own actions.

(BTW... I voted for a PIE)

I was glad to hear you say this. I had the same thought. Interesting to hear a perspective from someone for whom authoritarianism is that close to home.

Blah blah blah blah, blah blah....

It's a GAME! a GAME people!!!!!!

.

Hmm seeing that how some ...moderators have gotten into (ab?)using their powers, Forums certainly seem to be headed into a fascist thing

I just saw a thread closed that, while started with a repost, became a normal, valid debate. Then the mod comes and closes it, just when I was to pour some arguments into the soup. Dang.

In real life, if we could restrict people's actions by manipulating the nature of reality, we wouldn't need any government at all. And that is, in fact, the case with SL. So this is kind of a moot point.

But it's still fun to argue about theoretically.

well, IF Second LIfe IS Fascist.. then i'm with LL.. SUPPRESS THE INSURGENTS!! hehe (jk).. but yea, if anyone has a serious problem with the "government" of SL then why play? you could always find a different game thats player run to play like Sociolitron.. MY other opinion on this would be that it's a Democracy.. seeing how the people vote on the things that the LL do http://secondlife.com/vote/ <<<LOOK A THIS that proves my point..thats all i wanted to say thank you for your time im never looking at this thread again it angers me in so many ways.

'Tis naught but a dang game. With real (mostly) people in it.
Enjoy your firends, but lighten up with the politics, eh?

Must resist.....CAN'T!!!

SL is a capitalist meritocracy, not a fascist state. Although I could see there being fascist sims, if anyone cared to make one. (NOT a suggestion!)

Linden Labs is providing a simple government to protect intellectual rights, to allow free commerce between residents, to allow people to be free of porn if they choose in some areas, and to protect the integrity of their character from others. (No pushing or killin without consent.)

I'd personally be carefull what I called "fascist", or you risk minimizing the word. The real face of fascism is a monster that has, in the past, devoured millions. You do everyone a dissservice to call something you consider annoying to your online gameplay fascism.

Sorry for the rant, but I have a lot of Jewish friends, and I don't like to see that word just bandied about. And I know that it is possible to have a fascist state that is not specifically targeted towards the Jewish population, but I also know that fascism, by it's very nature, will usually target someone.

Catnip

It's very simple...

If you are unhappy with something... find something else.

Emphasis on "Backend"

Calling a video game "facist" is like calling John Stewart a "pundit". It goes wherever the wind takes it. The wind happens to commonly be green, and blow in the direction of moderation of concepts.

i haven't been here long enough to pass any kind of judgements so i'll refrain from doing so. but i will say "this about that":

tyranny is NOT an idiology!

the favorite propiganda myth of all time is that everybody else's idiology is tyrannical and yours is the only way to prevent tyranny.

the simple reality is that tyranny is not an idiology and no idiology, form of government, economic theory or even system of belief, does diddly to prevent it.

rather ANY idiology, form of government, ... , prioritised ahead of the kind of world we all have to live in, BECOMES ITSELF tyranny by doing so. that's why capitolism works best tempered by humanising 'socialism' and viceity vercity.

so what do I mean by tyranny? when it takes an act of heroism to be objectively honest, that is as good a working deffinician as i've yet come up with or witnessed.

fanatacism, economic or idiological, is invariably tyrannical, whatEVER it is a fanatacism of.
and yes, 'lassey fare' capitolism IS economic fanatacism.

there are some things market forces can do, when not being skewed by legislatively protecting gobosh corpratocracy from them. but they can't alone ensure the provision of useful tangable infrastructure, as one primary example, and only one among many.

a government which fails to protect people from freezing, starving and beating each other over the head, and or to ensure the provision of environmentaly sustainable energy and transportation infrastructure, serves no useful purpose by existing.

i think it's about time that no free lunch shoe needs to be applied to the other foot.
i mean in the outside universe. as for here in sl, i'll refrain from passing judgements untill i've been here a little longer.

no one owes anything to the impossition of a way of life they wish and have, no use for any part of.

=^^=
.../\...

It is? So, what is the goal of the "game" again? How does one progress in the game? A game must have some object or goal, some way to "win", so how do I win? I am learning how to 3d model, at my own pace, as well as some socializing. My avatar is never is danger, nor am I ever in danger of losing any stats, gold, or progress (save random sim crashes while I build). Please explain exactly how I am playing some sort of game. Did I lose? Did I win? What is the next stage of the game I need to progess to? Come to think of it, if this is a game, the internet is a game, too. SL is really just a 3d viewer for internet-like content and business transactions, with a built in social module like IMS and chat. The fact that I can see a physical representation of myself while I "surf" in no way makes the internet a game.

But wait, there are games within second life? That makes it a game?

No, it doesn't. In fact, I can go play Tringo, or slots, or any other minigame right here in my web browser, so does that mean Mozilla is a game?

Oh, I get money in Sl, so that is a standar of progress that can be measured. Ah ha, but money is not required to interact with the SL environment. One can "play" SL forever without ever getting a single L, and still do pretty much all that SL offers, save owning land (which is by no-means a requirement for SL). Also, wait, don't I get money in RL for working? Work is clearly not a game, so no, money doesn't make it a game, either.

That's ok, though. Just keep calling it a game, when it clearly isn't one. It has 3d graphics, so maybe one or two people might believe you at first glance.

Sorry, this view is annoying, and clearly incorrect. had to comment on it...

Actually, Tyrion, I'm very glad that someone that has joined SL not so long ago has already a crystal-clear reference of what SL is (independently on what other people wish it to be, which is quite a different issue).

I fully agree with your views on SL. Or perhaps we're all wrong and the World-Wide Web is a game after all and we haven't noticed it...

Pie, pie, pie!

SL is Pie....Seaweed Pie...Well,you have to be open to new things
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REG: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
XERXES: Brought peace.
REG: Oh. Peace? Shut up!
[bam bam bam bam bam bam bam]
[bam bam bam bam bam].........From Monty Pythons' 'The Life Of Brian' - 1979

SL is an RPG (at least to me, feel free to disagree), simply put, I am not my avatar. My avatar is my character..so yes, SL is a game

Agreed, and here's my take - you can play with Barbies or G.I. Joes, and there's no goal, hence it would be sort of incorrect to call playing with dolls a "game". In that light, I would say that SL is more of a (grown-up) "toy" than a "game". Games fall in the broader category "toys", as well, but they are a specific type of toy where some goals or a contest is involved in a primary sense, either with another player, an AI, or a deck of cards, etc.

Nice term! -->

SecondLife is Private Property owned by Linden Labs.

It's like a tenament building with shops on the first floor, condo's and rental units above.

Merchants, residents and guests are expected to abide by the rules set down by the property management group.

The property management group is expected to provide sufficent lighting in the common areas, handicap access, responsive security and maintenance, etc.

The obvious problem is that Linden Labs is made up of humans. They may try to be inhuman but they're still fallible. Prone to error, corrupted by power, blinded by drama, guilty of favoritism, often miscommunicating, bearing grudges, paving a road to hell with good intentions. (etc etc etc)


So, the question is... what recourse do we have if/when we percieve an injustice?

In FirstLife, we have huge volumes of time-tested real estate law and lawyers happy to charge us to apply them when 'human problems' result in costly problems.

But in Second Life, we are (literally) on new turf. I'd bet the few attempts to apply real estate law have been referred to small claim's court. Maybe as the financial investment/loss increases it'll be taken more seriously.

Sure... anyone can leave in protest, but walking away from a substantial investment of time and effort can feel like "losing." No one likes that. Property and investments made in SecondLife stay in SecondLife. Like in first life... "You can't take it with you."



So... about the Feted Inner Core? There's no such thing. I am not a member of the FIC. Phillip made both those points clear to me after the last time we went golfing. (Maybe I should have let him win.)

Linden Research is not doing a very good job in regards to handicap access.

Not being able to adjust the size of the text individually in different aspects of the user interface is a major handicap access failure.

Not having keyboard access to the main menu, by pressing alt-F for the file menu, is another example of handicap access failure. There are people with mobility and coordination problems that make keyboard use much preferable to mouse use. Second Life does a strikingly bad job of making the program useable by those in this situation. Likewise for those who are relatively mouse capable but keyboard impaired.

A seperate thought:

"Game" implies competition, victory conditions, rules, matches, winners, and losers.

The Olympics are "just a game"

The stock market is "just a game"

Life itself is "just a game"

Sure SecondLife can be considered "just a game",
(despite many distinctly non-game-like aspects.)

The olympics are trivial to some folks, very serious to others.
Same with the stock market. Same goes with Second Life.

Is it bad to take it so seriously? If you have a problem with high blood pressure sure.
Otherwise I say go for it... it's great to get passionately and psyched up about
something, even if it is "just a game". It's more fun than apathy.

And, as to "real" or "not real". Things said and done in first or second life affect other people. Mind to mind, personality to personaltiy. Putting on a role, or a mask or logging in as an avatar makes no difference. The same mind is at the helm... the consequences may differ, but "wherever you go. There you are."

SL cant be fascist.
Here is my reasoning, both Hitler and Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Linden Labs cant make SL run consistently, on a day to day basis on my PC.
ergo, linden labs are not fascist, cause if they ran the trains, the individual carriages wouldnt even arrive at the same time as the engine.

Hal Linden slept with the three headed Elvis' baby! It's the baby that runs SL, and Hal Linden allows it!

No really. it's true.