adding more prim capacity to land!

Hi all,
This is my first post here, so bare with me if this issue has been discussed in the past
I have a land with 117 prims capacity. These have been taken up quite quickly!
looking around and asking ppl I learnt the only way to increase my land's capacity was to purchase another land and add the new land's prims to my old land capacity.
I was wondering if purchasing more capacity to an existing land is something that is a) present b) if not whether this feature can be added to SL.Hi
I mean everything else is up for sale in there, I don't see why Prim capacity shouldn't be as well!

TA!

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I'm so happy to see that you noticed! Hope this thread gathers some momentum.

Land and prims represent your access to a portion of the server's overall capacity, which is what you're buying with your monthly tier. Currently, if you need more prims, you need more land. It's just a representational paradigm.

The short answer is: NO

Each simulator has a predetermined number of prims available. This number is tied to the simulator server capacity. In the early days of SL each sim had 10,000 prims available and each prim was taxed 10L$ each time it was rezzed (and the 10L$ was returned when a prim was derezzed). In those days, you were only limited by the number of prims available to be rezzed in each simulator and by your SL bank account.

When LL changed the pricing structure to the TIERS, prims were allocated based on square meters you owned in each simulator. So, a 512m^2 plot allowed you to rez up to 117 prims in that simulator.

As of today, those are the limits. Perhaps, in the future, the prim allocation will be increased (as it was in early 2004, from 10,000 to 15,000 prims) per simulator, which would grant you additional prims for the same amount of land.

The only way to increase your prim limit is to aquire additional land in the SAME simulator. If you buy land in an adjacent sim, even if the parcels are right next to each other, you will still be limited by the amount of land you own in each simulator.

Champie

There are tricks you can use to get a little more out of your prims. The most common are to use hollow and cut (for example, to make two 10X10 walls out of one cube), and to upload textures (for example, using a texture with an alpha hole in it for a window).

Buster

Why? That's the big part of his/her question.

Why can't prims be bought and sold on a secondary market, even within each sim, AFTER the initial allocation with land?

Why does the ration have to remain fixed in every sim? Certainly land edits are not the same, and obviously Islands have enhanced capabilities to justify their setup costs.

How would the Lindens care if a secondary market existed in which prims are bought and sold amongst residents? They would still collect tier.

What's the difference between a land baron and a prim baron?

The server of course has limited resources, and LL have had to decide on a maxium prim allowance for each sim that it can process comfortably (15,000). I can't see a fairer way of allocating those prims than proportionately to the plot size.

Prim allotment market ? Sounds like the pollution permits market

But obviously in the eyes of the beholder!

From behind a "veil of ignorance" we may all agree that the initial fixed ratio of prims to land is fair because its equal and how we ourselves would want to be treated. But what happens after that?

Is it fair that the author of this thread can't create more on his 512 plot if he wants to? Is it fair that residents who don't create have to pay tier for prims they don't use without forming a group?

The Lindens can always change the business model. This is not comparing the old way with the new. Its about something potentially better than both!

I wonder if the Lindons have tested raising the per server prim limit, or if they have some science/math/stats to justify the current limit. I also wonder if a full sim owner can ask for a higher limit.

but for prims that would be a synthetic, or shadow-pricing, scheme unless actual "transfer" rights could be granted, even within the same sim. Its still a zero-sum game in that the stated limit is 15,000 per sim.

For instance, have the Linden ever told us where sandbox prim capacity comes from? Are these separate, dedicated servers? Or do they somehow "borrow" unused prims from landowners? Is there a higher prim capacity for sandbox servers?

In the securities business shares of stock which are held for safe-keeping can be loaned out to other investors for short-selling purposes (even between different institutions) - but this is an explicit permission that must be granted by the owner of the shares. Do we have the same for prims - or are the Lindens selling more tickets than seats (lag)?

We can't really know these things until the prim market has visibility, and with visibility comes transparence - an essential part of service quality. Visibility will only come about when prims can be bought and sold on a secondary market, separate from Land. Transparency will only happen when the price for prims is allowed to float separately from the price of Land or the currency exchange ratio.

Older, "laggy" sims with high land prices may simply be the advanced stages of servers where prims were over-sold and an elaborate form of musical chairs is now happening. The land churn numbers that Blaze recently posted might suggest this is already a reality.

Other interpretations or comments?

Yes it is fair. You get what you pay for, it's as simple as that. For someone to get extra prims, someone else has to lose out or LL have to increase the prim limit. Even if increasing the prim limit is possible, it still comes back to how they are distributed. So that brings us back to the other option. If someone is going to have more than their fair share, someone else has to lose out.

Maybe I am missing something. What do you propose exactly?

Yes.

Want more prims, buy more land.

Got spare prims? Sell off land.

The alternative would be a nightmare of pettyness that would make land-barony look like Doctors without Borders.

What I am amazed by personally is that there is not some sort of seperate billing for land versus Prim. That way a peson get the size of land they want and not have to buy more land just for "prim" usage. Like right now I don't want to buy more land until I have enough to buy the lot I really want. The land I have will be hard to sell as it is. What I would lvoe to get though is more prims.

Say you own 1/4th of a sim, but 3/4th of the prims.

Who's gonna wanna buy land in the other 3/4ths of the sim? Answer: Nobody probably. Maybe if someone wanted to open a golfcourse or something, but how often does that happen?

This was is practical and fair, and most of all, simple.

Amen

In the current system yes I agree it is the most practical but is there really a true tie between the two or did LL just say ok this much land = this many prims. I think it is more they assigned a number cause there are sims out there with more prims. Yes of course prims take up space etc but that is where the seperate pricing would come in. Web Hosting providers do it with offering seperate pricing for server space and bandwidth.

And also because this would plunge us back into the days when this was possible in SL. And believe me, it sucked having your neighbors build simple items out of 100s of prims, or worse yet, keeping a "prim bank" comprised of 100s of default prims under their build, in order to hoard them for possible future use. This was really messed up, and one of the reasons why they changed it.

grrr my mind must be messed up today. I'm not assuming that we keep a limit on the max prims in a sim. If there was a change to a seperate price for land and prims then the prim limit of each sim would be removed.

No, there is a tech reason for the per-sim limit, the sim tracks each, models thier effect on physical objects, models the physical objects themselves, tracks textures, and sends all this information up to the users in the sim. You can't just remove the limit the hardware and software has on how many of these items it can handle at once.

Where are the sims w/ more than 15,000 prims?

Go rez 15,000 tori in a sandbox, you will see why there is a prim limit.

On a side note, I do beleive there will be a prim limit increase in the next version release.

Or pricing would reach equilibrium for the two separately - the "old days" are gone, and I hear a number of posters responding emotionally to fairly valid idea in this thread.

Why would it be unfair for the prim distribution to be unequal, after an initial allotment of 117 prims? Why is it unfair for the distribution of prims but fair for the unequal distribution of land? Why is it fair to pay different prices for generic prims based on real estate markup and not best use?

As Foulcault mentions, most ISPs find the split provides more efficient back-office server utilization and better customer experiences (quality of service).

I don't think anyone is talking about the "old days" - for some of us they never existed.

How is the distribution of land not equal?


Who is to determine best use? How would LL charge fairly for prims? Who would buy land in a sim with no prims left for use?




Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it....

A related question comes to mind regarding the lack of prim limits on an avatar and it's effect on a sim. An avie can wear in attachments far more prims than you can put on a 512 plot.

An excellent point Margaret.

In the latest version release supposedly LL greatly reduced the amount of resources attachments on avatars use.

This thread discussed this exact topic.
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