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adding more prim capacity to land!

Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
08-07-2005 19:22
From: Gabrielle Assia
I'm sorry, Lordfly.... until you can give me a URL that
expresses your viewpoint I cannot accept that you know
what you're talking about.

I have given two toward my viewpoint.


Are you kidding me? You're here a month and you're going to tell someone who is here over two years they don't know how SL works?



...

:confused:
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Buster Peel
Spat the dummy.
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,242
08-07-2005 19:29
From: Gabrielle Assia
Buster, thanks for your thought out reply..
but you are not using the correct analogy.

A better analogy is series of gears and movable parts put in to motion
by a motor (the cpu). you can only add so many gears and parts
up to the point that your single motor can't support all the piece (lag).
It's like only being able to power a single car off lawn mower motors.
You're going to get a VERY sluggish car!

No, that's a terrible analogy. I'm a programmer, I write computer programs all day long. I have a lot of experience writing distributed systems and dealing with multi-tasking. When you add a second processor, you must, by definition add a second "thread of execution". This is extremely difficult in any case, but in SL's case, the platform is designed to cooperate with NINE other computers (the surrounding sims), plus the client computer. This is an amazing piece of engineering. Your suggestions to change the architecture are non-starters. Don't make suggestions to change the architecture, that's idiotic.

You can suggest they add more computer power, but that costs money. Everything costs money. Changes you suggest would cost LL ludicrous amounts of money. It doesn't seem like it ought to, but it would.

From: Gabrielle Assia

HUH?
I'm not sure how this applies to what I'm saying.
Even if it DID.. you're mistaken, because at the store I can buy
a small personal sized soup can... a regular sized, or a large
family sized... so yes.. I can get 1 can with whatever amount of
soup fits my needs.

EXACTLY. The same is true in SL. You can buy any size container available. Just like soup.

The "land" is the container. Get over it.

Buster
Buster Peel
Spat the dummy.
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,242
08-07-2005 19:44
From: Gabrielle Assia
!

So... let me get this straight... the paragraph above says "ALL information
about the world (audio, video, geometry, textures) is STREAMED to the
viewer.... NONE of the content is actually stored on the players machine."

Even with THIS I'm not going to claim I fully know what's going on,
but I must admit I feel vindicated !

Further on the paper seems to go on to say that the need for a massive
video card is due to the high level of compressed use to get the video
down the pipe, and so the client is responsible for fast decompression.

What Phillip was saying is that data about the world is not stored on the client. The sim server tells the client "there is a 1/2 meter cube at <x,y,z>, oriented <x,y,z,r>, with texture x on side A, y on side B, etc. etc. etc. The sim server finds out about the cube from the asset server. The server tells the client all of the details about the cube. Then the client draws the cube on the screen.

Prim serving is only a fraction of the server's job anyway. Its busy running LSL scripts, calcuating physics, calcualting listeners and sensors, timers, and all sorts of messaging.

Having a second CPU on the server side sending details about prims to the client computer isn't going to work. Having a faster computer on the server side would, but there is still a limit to how much information can be sent to the client in a given amount of time. And faster computers cost more, so somebody's going to have to pay for that.

Buster
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
08-07-2005 20:54
I think I may be able to shed some light onto the inner workings of SL using pizza as an example.

Step into Phil's Pizza Emporium with me....


As you can clearly see the pizza (SL) starts off as raw dough. The dough is the land. Everything else in SL (the pizza) has to sit on this dough (the grid). Here we see LL creating a new continent (a bunch of pizzas). Notice that Philip is slinging sauce onto each of these pizzas (sims), the sauce will represent scripts. If the sauce is applied too heavy, the pizza will lag (droop). If the sauce is not prepared right it will also ruin the pie. Too much oregano (open listens), and the pizza will suck.



This pie clearly demonstrates how SL is divided into sims (pieces of pizza). Notice the grooves between the slices. These rifts are sim borders. Toppings are frequently lost in these borders where sims adjoin one another. We shall consider the pepperoni as avatars. Notice that they sit on top of the sauce and the land.

The cheese is the asset server. LL takes the cheese and grates it into tiny pieces and distributes it randomly across the grid. It is gooey and delicious. Pizza needs cheese. Cheese is the lifeblood of SL. Notice the burnt edges.

Also notice that this pie is divided into 8 slices (sims). If this pie were to be sliced into 16 slices, you would not have twice as much pizza (resources). This is a common misconception. There are two ways to get more pizza. The first would be to get a larger pie, as shown below:


This method isnt very practical, but you get alot more pizza per slice.

The other way would be to order multiple sims as shown below:


Here we see 13 servers, stacked horizontally. Presently LL does not offer this option, but as we can clearly see from this picture, it has been tried.

Let's discuss the toppings:

We see there can be a lot more to the pizza (SL) than just the topppings (resources) that we have mentioned. The picture above clearly demonstrates the dynamics involved with maintaning the grid. Sausages are physics, too many and the grid (pizza) will grind to a halt (your intestines). Mushrooms are textures. Olives are bling prims, the grid can stand them, but who in the hell orders them on their pizza.

The above photo also demonstrates the ugly side of SL, anchovies. These should be abuse reported whenever you see these on a pizza. They are just gross. Anchovies represent griefers.

Now that we have seen the basic ingredients of the pizza, lets talk about the delivery (bandwidth)....


Regardless of how good uncle Phil makes a pizza (SL), if the delivery guy (your isp) screws it up, you are left with a cold pizza (lag). It really sucks when your pizza guy delivers to the neighbors and they pay for it and eat it. One can only hope they ordered anchovies(griefers) in those instances. Remember to tip the pizza guy, or else he will spit in your pizza (SL).

Before anyone complains that the pizza analogy isn't true to SL, I too realize that sims (slices of pizza) are not pie shaped. So the pizza below is truer to form to the SL grid:

It is a sicilian pizza. Square and thick. Pretty damn tasty as well. It's clearly visible that this pizza has all the same characteristics of the grid. SL is a sicilian pizza.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask. Clearly I have a deep understanding of the inner workings of a pizza joint (SL).
_____________________
milady Guillaume
Shhhh, I'm researching!
Join date: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 696
08-07-2005 21:08
Damn, and i thought He only knew about sheep!! Masterpiece, Schwans!
_____________________
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
08-07-2005 21:31
Two sheep eating a sim....
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
08-07-2005 22:03
Schwanson, that was easily the best presented SL forums post ever. My congratulations.
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
08-08-2005 07:44
From: Enabran Templar
Schwanson, that was easily the best presented SL forums post ever. My congratulations.


Thank you. I figured it was a good way to put my technical expertise to use.
It is also proof positive that I should post while drinking tequila more often.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
08-08-2005 08:58
I really hope Phil sees this. Kudos Schwan, that was hilarious!
Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
08-08-2005 09:12
From: Malachi Petunia
.... the zeitgeist doesn't have a URL.


Best remark in the whole thread. Summarizes a troublesome issue in six words. :)

btw, I've had the delivery guy deliver a cold pizza, and then claim that the pizza-people didn't cook it enough....
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