Get Me Off That Key List

Well said, Lex.

A year or so?

Then it's high time we get them shut down. Enough is enough.

I will not respond in kind, other than to say the language used by Lex is unacceptable and an attack. I am reporting it.

You should be ashamed for endorsing that post with a "well said". If you think that's how it should have been said, don't be a coward. Say it so we can see your true colors.

You have lost any and all credibility I thought you may have had, and I will no longer respond to your posts, and have put you both on ignore. I'm sure that makes us both happy.

Good luck with...well, whatever it is you do.

I love the taste of irony. It tastes like happy.

Likewise, by the way. The reporting thing, that is.

And now the forums own it:Which I obtained in-game, using no decryption at all.

Please understand that I have purposefully posted a concise, concrete example so that you may report it and get an actual determination from LL instead of just imagining what they might do.

HAHAHA

That's friggin great. Come on. An attack? I tried as nicely as I could to spare you from your own mistakes and trolling. You clearly didn't listen to the most important part of my post, where I explained what might make this whole situation much better, and create an outcome any better than an outright flamewar. You made up a few feeble counter-arguments to my one paragraph of debate, which wasn't even the main thrust of my post.

And then you told me to "Cram that into your pathetic and rotting walnut you ass."

Wonderful. Report away. Watch the thread get locked, and watch your tantrum here accomplish nothing.

And Malachi, I suggest you read the entire forum, lengthy though it may be. You will see this has already been done, and that, because it is within the confines of the SL community, and the confines of the SL forum, I do not have issue with it, at all. It would be foolish to report it, since this use, although pointless, is not out of bounds of the pay-for-play, privately owned by LL, community.

I also stated that the first user that did it played right into my hands by doing so, as it illustrates my point. I knew if I went on long enough, somebody would fall for it. Hah, little did I think two of you would.

I don't care if the information is available in SL. SL is where it lives. I have made that clear time and time again.

It does NOT live on the public internet. It lives in a subscription based service that I pay a great deal of money for. If I want my info moved from the closed and privately owned SL community onto the public and in no way closed Internet, it should be done with my permission. There IS a difference between the two environments. One is a paid, privately owned subscription based service. The other is not. Where people get the notion that there is no difference, or that they can do as they please outside of that subscription based service with info from within it, is beyond me. Every fibre of me tells me that it is completely wrong.

As you stated, you also obtained the information in game, without decryption. So I would say LL has no possible issue with your use of the software binaries or supporting files. Good job, thank you for abiding by the TOS as all decent residents should!

Thank you, again, for helping me along here Malachi. Your vindictive intent just bit you in the ass.

FYI I was dead serious about notifying the hosting service of the fact that they are hosting a site that advocates decrypting commercial software and compiling lists from that information. Will it do any good? We'll see.

Oh man, that was easy. Again. This time I didn't even have to work for it.

One other thing you are all ignoring. With the exception of one other civil post, I have confined this entire conversation to this thread. AND YOU ARE FREE TO IGNORE IT. So unless you are crediting me with the power to manipulate you and force you to read things that make you angry, well, it's your own fault that you are so. I am not advocating hate crimes, or racism, or terrorist activity, of any kind. You want to take the position that suggesting submission of a 1m long keyname file to a service that advertises decryption of commericial software is a crime, well, when you're done, please bury what's left of the horse. And by all means report it. As I said, I am unconcerned.

I am not accountable for your anger, or anybody elses, if you insist on continuing to read this thread.

Oh and within the confines of the SL community, feel free to publish my key. It will undoubtedly make me the most published avatar in SL, and I don't mind the notoriety at all. Might make me most land-banned AV of all time, in spite of the fact I've never done anything but been helpful in world (and pretty much stick exclusively to my own land anyway). Ah well, As Johny Dep said..."Oh yeah, I've heard of you...", "So, you HAVE heard of me!".

I have even started getting tells in game from people I've never heard of or met. FYI, my conduct in game is spotless. I have never even received a moderate warning. Be careful people, I take in game conduct, for myself and others, quite seriously, and in 2.5 years remain pristine. I have had two disputes in game and came out on top both times because I am very, very careful. I respect people's in world experience to an extreme.

Lovely jubbly (spelling) as the Brits do say?

Tcoz Bach: because that dead horse ain't gonna beat itself.

Ugh, do I really have to? Will I see something that you haven't posted in at least three other threads?

I do however, bow to your vastly superior intellect; how dumb I feel for falling into your trap and not simply goading you into writing another 700 word screed on the subject.

Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. You only think I guessed wrong - that's what's so funny. I switched glasses when your back was turned. Ha-ha, you fool. You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia"...

Tcoz Bach:
you know the old forums are on archive.org and open to public scrutiny. It is possible that you yourself at some point or anther user posted your key back in the old days. This would make the acquisition method irrelevant.

Anyway if the list contained every user key it would contain over 143000 entries.

We really don't.

A Brit.

Wot? No insinuated threats of RL violence? No baseball bats?

At least I have the capability to chain 700 words together.

I never, at any point, threatened anybody in SL with violence. Had I done so, in any way, I'm sure the admins would have long banned me.

If you disagree, take it up with LL.

I am simply shocked so many of you would allow yourselves to be compromised in your daily lives by scams and Gator-esque mechanisms like this. You all really think that nothing of this nature is going to be done with these lists, and that nothing should be done until something actually happens.

And that's just freaking stupid. The time to stop it is now, before it gets loose. LL has the opportunity to set a precedent here...we HONOR the security of our members within the closed society of SL. We take their concerns of this nature dead seriously.

You know, with just a little research, anybody can now send everybody in SL email, from the outside world, and that person would be nearly impossible to find with just a few simple measures. Go ahead deny it, say it doesn't matter. I don't care.

I will continue to fight it, as I believe these practices chip away at our right to privacy, in the broadest sense, online. It continues, eventually nothing is private at all. That is the way it's going because of scams and abuses like this.

If you don't agree, or you would rather have to go to a million websites to "opt out" as time goes on and people like you allow this to take firmer root and eventually become accepted, that is your perogative. I choose to take a stand on it. I'm not surprised at all so many of you lack the backbone to say, "No".

I have never in all my days been so vehement about anything in SL.

I am finished with this thread and will not read into it again. So post your snipes, and your adolescent little remarks, or whatever it is you do.

Insofar as the game is concerned, I own a lot of land, all over, and my banish list just got a LOT bigger. You are not welcome.

In most cases, you have to pay an additional fee to obtain an unlisted phone number. Otherwise, phone numbers are considered public property. If I were to put together a list, that would then by my property, which I could sell. This happens all the time. I think we have an equal paradigm.

The question is, should Linden Lab offer an "unlisted" service, perhaps for an additional fee? While I'm thoroughly opposed to spamming / telemarketing (ugh)... there are far too many legitimate uses of key/name pairs to be so paranoid. All of that being said, I'm opposed to people "selling" these lists in RL or SL - public information should be public.

If I were to send an instant message and/or object to 10,000 avatars in SL today via script I'm pretty sure I'd be permabanned by the type I got to passing to #1000. I was asked what I was doing when I had a script pass to the 400 or so avatars who signed up for SLBoutique, passing out the new wallet object and a notecard to explain its use! So please be assured use is being monitored.

Regards,

-Flip

Uh, anyone else not screaming about it is more likely to simply not give a shit as opposed to lacking backbone. Certainly people I've spoken to.

For me, its simple: Post my key all you like. But use it for anything that abuses the ToS and you'll be abuse reported and anything else I can think of.

I don't see much point in worrying that the sky might fall because someone knows your key any more than the dramah about being able to create replicating objects is anything to worry about, or the fact that you can make prim copiers. If someone abuses LSL and/or my key to my detriment, then I'll take appropriate action. Until then, I'd rather not start stifling potential on the grounds that it might be abused.

As is endlessly pointed out, virtually anything can be abused if you're the type of person to be abusive. If Avatar Foo has the widely available free visitor counters, he has your key. No harm done. Sure, if Avatar Foo then compiles an SL mailing list and constantly mailshots people about his events and exploits, then he's committing an abuse. And everyone will report him. But should we ban visitor counters (and scanners, and listeners, and touch events) so he cant potentially commit that act in the first place? I think not.

And I would suspect a lot of people feel the same. Evidently your mileage varies, but I still dont see how it equates to a lack of backbone in everyone else.

Two of the best coders I know are upset about this list, which gives me pause. Given the choice, my info would not be in this list either. Use the tools built into the system as intended instead of making lists that could potentially be used for dastardly deeds.

-Ghoti

Hey. What's going on? Just thought I'd pop in and say "hi".

What's that you say? A paranoid crank is making thinly veiled threats of virtual and physical violence against myself and property? Wow! What an asshole!

Just so you know, there is an opt-out list. Instructions are on the web page. Additionally, Mr. T has been on that list for quite some time.

Submit your name.cache file! The list is almost up to 6000 entries -- all free and with an opt-out list.

~Ulrika~

Ghoti, I think you're drawing the line at the wrong point.

The key words in your post are "could potentially be used". Should we eliminate everything in SL that *could* be used for dastardly deeds? Goodbye sensors, llPushObject, in fact... goodbye SCRIPTING altogether! Goodbye linking prims, because we don't want anyone to be able to rez a 30 meter by 30 meter by 10 meter object during an event.

Goodbye all textures since they COULD BE USED for the dastardly deed of showing pr0n in a PG area.

Goodbye chat and IMs because they could be used for hate speech.

I also think its somewhat arrogant to try to direct peoples' behaviors by stating that making lists of keys for legitimate uses (excluding ToS violations like spamming) is not the "intended behavior." Can you show me where Linden Lab states that this is not the "intended behavior" of the function they clearly programmed with this capacity?

Regards,

-Flip

I pity da fool thats on that list, I DO, I DO!!!


*disclaimer*

The list does me no harm, I am not dissing the list, OR Mr T, or any other members of the sexy A-Team*

Actually, I feel I don't know enough about LSL to draw any lines. I'm relying upon gut feeling and the leeriness of my coder-friends on this one.



I see your point, but I also think that the difference is that all those things are built into the system whereas this list is external and beyond LL control.



I don't think its at all arrogant of me to state my feelings on this. If there is supposed to be one big uber list of keys why hasn't LL produced one or given us llName2Key() ability? What sort of mischief is possible given this uber list that is not possible if a person had to generate this list on their own using in-game functions?

I did a search on Name2Key for 'Linden' and got a list 80 names long. If there's nothing wrong with this service, please go and do the same search and post the results here. If the Lindens do nothing about that post (like deleting it or sending you to the ninth layer of Hell for posting it, or whatever) then I'll withdraw my objection. If the list is removed from the forum, then my objection to the Name2Key page stands.

-Ghoti
(ps. I'm not posting the list because I don't want a suspension, if it is indeed a no-no.)

Does anyone know of any abuse that has happened because of these lists? I could understand getting angry b/c I'd received repeated spams in-world. And I'd definitely file an abuse report and assume the Linden's would take action against said spammer. But unless a user's SL experience has been negatively impacted, I don't understand the level of anger in this thread.

As far as whether the mere existence of these lists is against the rules--because info LL considers proprietary is being republished without the consent of LL--it's up to LL to decide and take action. Obviously people have differing opinions about this, and I'm sure LL will take into account everyone's POV expressed here when making a decision.

Generally, the purpose of these forums is discussion and education about Second Life. That said, this thread has gone beyond the point of useful discussion and is inappropriate for the SL Forums, for that reason it is being locked