Get Me Off That Key List

Wait, I thought you were worried that other SLers were going to spam you? What good is your key to Joe Blow who doesnt play SL who happens to stumble across Ulrikasheim?

Posting it in the forums affords just as many, if not more opportunities to spam you, as having it on an outside site.

Please post where I say, "I am afraid that SL players are going to spam me". I'm as aware of the TOS and ignore features as any of you.

But how about this, hypothetically.

I don't want, say, my boss, girlfriend, or wife, knowing that I play pay-for-online games. The reasons are irrelevant; I don't want it known. That is my business. As I sign my code into repositories with @author Tcoz, say any of the above gets wind of a directory that shows members of a game that he thinks I might be very interested in, since what I do for a living is UI design, modelling, and programming.

BTW, yes. There are employers out there that are starting to be wary of the gamer type.

So he types in Tcoz. And guess what.

There is NO other way this individual can obtain this information. NONE. Not unless this person slaps down a credit card and pays for the game. This is a CLOSED community, the info is NOT public, it is only "public" in the GAME ITSELF.

So some would say, "well, don't use Tcoz". Why? So you can build lists? I should have to consider this when I set up an account in a PRIVATE (not public) environment?

Let's put it this way. If he called LL and said, "do you have a player named Tcoz", what do you think they'd say? Yes? Wrong again.

You people are so confused. This is not "public" information. It is SL-specific information, contained within a closed community. Moving that info into the real world compromises my privacy within SL.

RIF dood, RIF.

A search for "tcoz", simply constrained to secondlife.com, ignoring the vast multitude of non-secondlife.com sites related to SL, turned up your name already.

Nor do I have to pay one red cent to get into SL. Trial versions, ya know.

Irrelevant. This lists contributes to it. Just because you can buy crack on every corner doesn't mean no one crack dealer is wrong. They are all wrong. As is anybody that is making this info available through public searches.

This is EXACTLY my issue. It has become like car alarms. If everybody does it, and enough people say, "dood chill out", then nobody fights it anymore. And then it becomes accepted.

No.

That, by the way, is a privacy violation. I said the same exact thing about a year ago in these forums, and the post was removed and I was notified.

You do have to slap down a credit card, ID yourself, and the community is considered closed. Not public, not open. I have no issue, at all, with people using and exchanging the info within the community it is supposed to be used in. SL. And I never said I did.

What I did say was, it is now OUTSIDE that closed community, and I expect LL to protect my right to keep this info within the community where it is intended to be used.

NOT THE PUBLIC NET. That is not SL.

With all due respect Tcoz, that is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard.

"It is a spam compilation"
"and compiling lists against the wishes of the people on it for the intent of spam"
"It's as bad as any marketing or spam list."

So let me get this right, you're not worried that SLers will spam you if they have your key?

Who are you worried about spamming you then? Can "Joe Internet" spam you with that key? I don't believe so.

Hey man, all I said was, "show me where i said I was afraid of receiving spam in SL".

You can't. Can you.

pwned.

Ya know, it's not really related to the topic at hand, and I'm sure your going to be quick to tell me to "f off" and its "Irrelevant", but. It's not LL's job to protect you from yourself. If you use a nickname elsewhere that is also your SL name, and you have a vested interest in them never being connected, well... you have only yourself to blame if someone manages to put two and two together, sorry. As a practical matter, privacy starts with you, not other people.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sympathetic to your desire for privacy in principle. But there are good ways to go about things, and bad ways.

LMFAO!

Thanks for making an otherwise uneventful saturday afternoon... umm... more interesting.

Again, I disagree.

You join a private organization. Oh I dunno, some "men's" club. You go by your name. It is a closed, private community. You have to show ID when you enter. The general public is not allowed unless they are members (in which case you have moved out of "general public".

Somebody in that club then posts a list of the members on the public web for their own reasons. A completely unrelated search turns up that info.

Hey, your name isn't private info. You can get that anywhere.

But your membership, and your right to privacy within it, is very much private info. And publishing that info violates it.

I simply can not fathom why people don't get this. Aside from being as obvious to me as the monitor in front of me now, it is just so clearly indecent to do such a thing.

Ya know how every single "How to protect yourself online" FAQ/guide says "Avoid using the same name everywhere", or words to that effect?

Yeah.

Not everyone listens to good advice.

Again, a matter of approach. We are so fundamentally juxtaposed we could go on forever.

It is also good advice to ignore drug dealers. Just walk by him/her, don't say a word, don't look, mind your business. Many people follow that advice and lead happy, if somewhat cowardly imho, lives.

Me, I get a few guys, we take bats, whack him in ass as hard as we can, and chase him off the block.

I'm not going to start practicing deception or indifference, or compromise what I consider an appropriate online identity I've been using for years because somebody else wants to play games with my right to privacy within a closed community.

Every guy that belongs to a an organization they'd like to keep quiet has to go by a first-time alias? Nonsense. Where does that end?

For me, here. I'm taking a stand and speaking out on this one. I may lose, but it won't be through indifference or lack of trying.

Hehe. Yes, and using a moniker that people are aware of whom I wish to hide my gaming habits from is brilliant! Who can argue with logic like that?

I have been using my bicycle lock combo for all my passwords since I was 6 years old, is that bad too?

I see, so commiting crimes is ok as long as you think someone else is commiting a crime.

Is this where I am suppsed to say "pwned'?

I still say we should have the right to disable cross-sim transfers and chat/IM/email requests. Period. That strikes me as a fair compromise.

At that, keep debate civil. This thread is teetering on the edge of warranting a lock from what I've read, so tone it down and speak to the issue please.

This is a CLOSED community. NOT a public one.

It should REMAIN CLOSED. People who violate that violate that right.

WHAT don't people get about this? Now the person who chooses to use the name he thinks most appropriate is wrong? He should alter this to accommodate such bottomfeeders as spam list builders? He should do this out of fear of being published by such an organization?

The problem is, I am passionate about the rights of the individual. I would never, ever do this to another person, and I expect the same regard. It is simply completely, totally foreign to me why anybody would do this. I can not understand it, nor can I understand how anybody else can understand it.

Mind your own business. Leave me out of it unless you ask and I consent. WHY is that so hard?

Speaking of the topic, are you for, against, or indifferent to this list Jeffrey?

Edited too much info.

Many people agree with vigilantes. Look at that guy who defended that event recently. He got banned. Does he have regrets? No. Does the community frown on his actions? No. Should LL be ashamed? Yes.

Did he commit, within the SL community, a crime, against one perceived of having commited a crime?

Yes.

Indifferent. I feel the right to keep such a list should be upheld just as the right to not receive spam should.

That doesn't need to be mutually exclusive. Allow us to automatically deny cross-sim requests directly from LSL. Problem solved.

Sorry, I disagree. You could've called the cops, the same ones who you are buddies with.

Ulrika, if you are reading this, please take Tcoz off that list and add a function so that people can request to opt-out, much as we are able to do in RL by telling a cold caller to remove one's self from their list. I think that is fair. Not to mention it may calm those would be Charles Bronsons out there who would draw comparisions to crack dealers.

But yet you can break federal law to avenge the 'wrongs' you see. Interesting.

There is a reason vigilante justice isn't legal. It has nothing to do with protecting the criminals.

A crime doesn't justify another crime. Something that is not a crime most certainly does not justify a crime.

And for that matter, keep a list of "opted out" members against future lists. This is fair until we're given better controls over key use (like what I mentioned).

Virtual "Do Not Call." Have we really come so far?

You might wanna read that thread again before you try to speak for the entire community.

I said "many". Not all. Stop trying to discredit me with falsehoods.

Anyway, back to the point.

- The site says the purpose is to decrypt and SL software file. For crying out loud it accepts it as input, parses it, and posts it.

4.1 License. Subject to the terms of this Agreement, Linden grants to you a non-exclusive, limited, fully revocable license to use the Service and the Linden Software during the time you have paid for but only as long as you are in full compliance with these terms and conditions. You may not charge any third party for using the Linden Software to access and/or use the Service, and you may not modify, adapt, reverse engineer (except as otherwise permitted by applicable law), decompile or attempt to discover the source code of the Linden Software, or create any derivative works of the Linden Software or the Service, or otherwise use the Linden Software except as expressly provided in this Agreement.

Allow me to repeat.

nd you may not modify, adapt, reverse engineer (except as otherwise permitted by applicable law), decompile or attempt to discover the source code of the Linden Software, or create any derivative works of the Linden Software or the Service, or otherwise use the Linden Software except as expressly provided in this Agreement.

The service is easily argued as being in violation of 4.1 of the License. Have the Lindens said, "yes, that file may be decoded (no matter how easy or straightforward that process may be) for public compilation and distribution, outside the SL community, on the public internet or any other medium, such as newspapers, magazines, BLOGs, etc."...?

I do not believe they have. The License would seem to stipulate that unless otherwise stated, YOU MAY NOT.

Furthermore, SL is a closed community. The info within it, should remain within it. Republishing on the public internet against the wishes of the members of that closed community, or any member of it, IS WRONG.

SL is NOT a public community. "Public" within the context of SL, means...within the context of SL. NOT within the context of the public web.

This does not break the ToS. It does not attempt to reverse engineer or otherwise gain access to the source code of the client or the data transmited by said software.

What Reitsuki said. Drawing the line between "fair use" and "reverse-engineering the product" is difficult, and in my experiences, one of the most loosely-enforced portions of the ToS.

Reason being, very few people tend to "cross that line." I don't think this does, either.