A bit of a plea...

Right, so this is before my morning cereal, so I'll try to make this as coherent as possible.

It is a fact that, on paper, negative rates mean diddly squat. In the ratings system the Lidnens have devised (and stuck with despite many complaints), a negative rate is worth the exact same as a positive rate.

In practice, however, this is obviously not the case.

You don't get many forum posts detailing about who gave whom a triple positive rating, or whether or not so-and-so deserved such a thing, or if getting one and giving back 6 is apropos.

Negative rates, however, are another matter.

Negative rates are the social equivilent of an atomic bomb. They are permanent, given out with malice, and are impossible to remove.

And, like it or not, there are many many many MANY people in Second Life who simply "judge a book by its cover" by seeing your score of negative rates and deciding, right then and there, before you even open your mouth, whether or not to talk to you. This is especially true of newer players, who hear through the grapevine that "folks with neg ratings are not to be trusted".

As of today, I have 32 negative ratings. That makes me ranked number 32 out of a possible 17,000. For comparisons sake, if you took that rank to compare directly with positive ratings, I would have 2,934.

Now, I can understand, and even accept, that I can be a bit of a jackass, someone who doesn't back down even if I'm "wrong", a general stick in the mud, a stubborn college kid, and a nosey son-of-a-bitch.

Most, if not all, of my negative ratings can fall into 4 distinct categories:

1) the Club Elite/Federal incident;
2) The Zombie Incident,
3) griefing newbie players,
4) A certain, possibly mis-named "Angel" and her alternate accounts.

I can take the behavior points. I can even take it like a man and accept the appearance points, as sort of a double negative karms for my previous past misdeeds.

BUT.

I simply cannot, will not, and shall not accept all of the negative rates for my buildings.

It's like this. When I log into SL, most of the time I'm doing two things: Building for myself or building for someone else. I don't get out much, I don't positive rate farm, I don't socialize, I don't date, I don't set off firebombs at weddings, I don't grief at the welcoming area. I just sit there, mind my own business, and push prims around.

Over the last year or so, I'd like to think I've gotten pretty good at such exercises. At least other people seem to think so. I get the occasional kudos, pat on the back, and whatnot. It's all I get recognition for, which is 100% okay, because that's all I do.

I'm not asking for more kudos, in case you were wondering.

All I'm asking for from the above-mentioned parties, who KNOW that they triple-negative-rated me, for no other reason than to rate me for my behavior or other ill shenanigans, to give me a Christmas/Chanukah/Festivus/Kwanzaa present and simply remove the negative building rating.

My SL "livelyhood" thrives and depends upon my building reputation, not the other two. I don't like having the nagging feeling that people don't want me to build for them because I might be assumed to be a mega-griefer.

I don't care if you still think I'm wrong about some months-ago misdeed, but I know for a fact you didn't give me a dink on my building score because I can't build for squat.

Therefore, just be the nice guys that you may or not be, and remove my building negative ratings, ONLY IF you triple-negative-rated me. If you truly do not like my buildings, then I'm fine with that too. I just know that most, if not all, of my neg rates in buildings are
for other things aside from building.

That's all.

LF

People who triple neg are asshats. There is no valid reason to do it. If a person is griefing then neg rate his behavior. If he is wearing a racist avatar neg rate his appearance. If his build is ugly or somehow offensive then neg rate that. But to just arbitrarily hand out a triple neg rate is one of the lamest most childish acts that occurs in SL. The only way I could ever see myself handing out a triple neg is if someone dressed as hitler, riding a giant flying penis, was firebombing an event. In my book triple neggers are almost as low as griefers. They ARE lower than minors ( ).

I agree that the triple neg is only for extreme situations (great example, Devlin). The only incident of yours, Lordfly, that I am aware of is the zombies, and that did involve something you built. While your buildings themselves are great, if someone was upset by the zombies, I think that building/behavior are the places they could have felt were legitimate to neg rate. That may explain a lot of your negative "non-Angel" building rates.

I only know of the zombies from the forums, never met one myself. Personally, I have triple positive rated LF.

negative rates mean quite a bit since so many people are obsessed talking about how bad they are or meaning less they are. nobody is talking about how important or meaningless the "intrests" tab on the profile is.

negative ratings clearly work. LL's choice is whether they will keep it because it is serving its intended purpose, or buckle to the pressure of vocal unhappy players who don't like "them apples."

LF, I've seen your buildings and am familiar with your reputation. I've actually never noticed your negatives and couldn't imagine my opinion of your skill would changing knowing that.

i'd been tempted so many times to negrate you because for the longest time your building skills didn't match your self promotion. don't get me wrong, now your walk is starting to match your talk, in SL terms, but that's just my opinion. others might disagree with your taste in architecture.

Lordfly,

If it is true that many of the neg ratings you got for building were due to the zombies, I think this demonstrates another problem with the ratings system.

I would be surprised if any of the players who had been here for some time would have been anything but amused by the zombies and their problems. They would delight in the unexpected and surreal things which would happen in the world.

But those who came into the world with the intention of making money would see such things as an offensive and obstructive way of reducing their enjoyment. Or earning-power, assuming such things would be synonymous.

In other words, the individual resident's perception of the world we live in would colour whether or not they felt neg rates were justified in this case.

If that is correct, then I don't think it is fair, but really don't know what the solution is. I suppose my suggestion of making a rate cost $L100 might have solved that problem as well, because those who were offended would have to decide whether they felt they were losing more or less than $L100 of earning potential, and whether a negative rate was economically viable.

I agree that everybody who awards three neg ratings just for the sake of emphasising their point are in fact griefers.

Selador (who has yet to award a neg rating)

Hey LordFly, just a comment - making yourself vulnerable to the SL community is something you should think about doing AFTER coffee and breakfast.

I have never neg rated anyone except a little F%#ker who shot me while I was shopping. Otherwise I don't really mind being shot.

I have never neg rated anyone, and certainly wouldn't neg rate someone who can actually build, thats just stupid, i've seen your stuff and its fab

I gained a neg rating, lord knows when, but i'm kinda miffed, I never go anywhere LOL.. but never mind, its not the end of the world, but I do see your point, some people are just wankers, who take pleasure out of annoying those who can actually do something in their SL..

Your post makes a lot of sense Lordfly, and I agree that it sucks. I know the Reputation System thread is still going strong. Number one on the feedback page as of this writing. 263 replies. I feel the Lindens *are* working on a new system, but I figure we still have a while before it is put into place. In the meantime, I suppose we just have to suffer through.

For what it is worth, you know I love your buildings Lordfly. I've hired you twice now and I'd do it again in a heartbeat! *hugs*

EDIT: Oh, and I have never neg rated anyone. One exception, the 3 negs I gave to Darko because he asked me so nicely during his campaign. hehe..

I really don't think you need worry LF, I'm absolutely sure that whatever ratings you have is having zero impact on you getting work. People will know your work, will know your reputation, and those things are what count. A lot of people won;t even look at your profile, but they will have looked at your great builds.

Have you asked people that have seemed reluctant, why they haven't hired you? Is it simply a 'cost' issue? I know people who are looking for builders do tend to shop around a bit, so maybe you were more expensive than someone else. Just an idea.



Jai

What's wrong with you man!?

There is no heaven without a hell.

I have -3/-1/-2 as well. Did I deserve them? I don't think so, but then I have to admit that it has made me a lot more sensitive to other people when I'm in SL with regards to my buildings and what not.

An interesting point, Jai. I've tried multiple times to get a "fair" price, but I have yet to hit on it.

Every time I quote my current price, I always get the same "That's it? Boy, that's awfully cheap", but then if I raise my quoted price (in my fliers and whatnot), I don't even get any interested lookers. Better to be cheap, I suppose.

Like I said, I wasn't looking for kudos or anything (although thanks just the same), I just don't want those negative build ratings any longer.

LF

Omg!!! That is the ultimate crime!! Do not shoot someone while they are shopping! Shopping is a sacred thing. Not only should you have neg rated the little F%#ker, you should have burned him alive at the stake.

You could petition the Lindens to have a day when they clear out the neg ratings entirely from the system, maybe tied to one of those seasonal atonement holidays like Yom Kippur or Good Friday. Then after 24 hours of contemplation, negraters could reapply the neg, but you'd have a day to appeal to their conscience. Accidental negrates from trial accounters would get removed, etc.

You should get alts to have your griefing work done by the alt and collect the negrates on him as a badge of honour and have your mission-critical work in building on the sweet av with only pluses.

All is forgiven.

P.S. Geez, what *happened* at Club Elite, for those of us watching at home?
P.P.S. Go, zombies heh.

Lordfly I've never understood people who neg rate others for builds and appearance.

But there's lots i don't understand.



Would be interesting if LL would have a Neg Rate Amnesty Day and wipe all Negs.

You mean... people actually look at ratings? When did this start happening?

I personally couldn't care less what my ratings are, or other people's ratings are; I just tend to interact with them and then make my own decisions.

I've someplace managed to pick up a mysterious triple-neg, myself! Oops, I looked at my own ratings. Dammit.

People take neg ratings WAY too seriously. (this is not an invintation to neg rate me

If you have a fall out with a girlfriend/boyfriend in RL and it ends negatively they typically try to make it as hard on you as possible.

The same goes for in game problems, if someone is mad they want to have the largest affect possible to make themselves feel better. It stinks but its not going to change.

you can neg rate someone and then later positive rate them and it will remove the negative you added. (this has happened to me)

What I would like to see would be a list of the negative rating players names or some way to find out who has rated you negatively. This would allow you the chance to redeem yourself in that players eyes or to fix accidental ratings. I have given a negative on accident, I dont know who it was to fix MY mistake, and they get to wear the badge for the rest of their SL experience.

Players who have negatives typically did something to someone to deserve them. People with higher negatives should be kept an eye on when dealing with them, esp when it comes to $$.

Okay, see, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I'd consider myself one of the most trustworthy businessmen in SL.

Of course, everyone's going to say that.

But as proof, I offer you to talk with the dozens of satisfied building customers I've dealt with, as well as various other business partners I've had during my time in SL. If you'd like a list, send me an IM. I trust you'll get the same response.

And yet, if someone were to glance at my ratings, they'd say "oh, hey, hang on here Jack, this guy isn't trustworthy! Let's go get our buildings done by Super Pants instead." and then I'm out of a commission.

It'd be like trying to be a legitimate architect in the real world, except that you had to wear "Sheep fucker" on your forehead during all business meetings. Who's going to have dealings with a sheep fucker, anyway? (Excluding the Schwans, of course).

Hence my predicament and plea.

LF

i enjoy the interesting proposals and ideas you are always bringing to the forum, but these insincere pleas in search of recognition are getting old. the lindens are working on it. while you are waiting, why don't you just make a "do you think i'm the best?" poll?

1. Man.
   
2. the SKill at Building rating...
   
3. My thoughts on the Dwell system, and why I don't like it...
   
4. Remove the building rating.
   

btw, to avoid getting more negs while the lindens are working on the new system, don't do things to piss people off

I had someone use FOUR Accounts to neg me, all within five minutes and the person admited it was them , and that all accounts were theirs. I reported it to lindens ( as if they want to neg me fine, but one person shouldnt be able to do it four times. Well the lindens never did anything about it even though in TOS youre not supposed to use alts for this kind of thing

I don't get what all the huff is about. I've done enough stuff to deserve neg ratings but never got neg rated for that behavior. I also must admit to building some pretty awesome stuff... But much like the author I'm anti social -- dealing only with those I've known from other places such as IRC so this stuff doesn't get rated much. Maybe once or twice -- most of my positive ratings seem to come from people who just want to get positively rated in return. The entire system in my opinion is stupid -- but I could care less if it's improved. It's generally meaningless. I've never seen someone refuse to socialize with someone because due to their rating -- nor go "Woah! that guy is liked!".

Then again, it might just be the crowd I stay with.

Most people are afraid to neg rate in fear of counter neg rats -- and people pos rate just to recieve it themselves.

Man, maybe I should go around and neg rate every club that has glossy black walls for bad building. I should start with Club Elite and move on from there... Infact I should start randomly pos rating some nice stuff I see hear and there. I think the rating system is flawed because of the community it's self.

(While dressed as hitler, riding on a flying dick while dropping firebombs on parties)

Likewise, chum. By the by, how IS the forum trolling business nowadays?

Just wondering.

LF

LF,

I do believe it was just a few days ago that I lamented to you on the irony of one of the top rated builders in SL not having the skill to do anything but slap a texture on a giant box. Your reputation as a builder in SL is beyond reproach, so as impassioned of a plea as this thread may be, I think it is for naught. Anyone who judges someone who has hundreds of positive ratings and a few negative ones simply by such an arbitrary number based on a flawed system is, well, a complete idiot.

My neg ratings all came from the same Club Elite/Federal incident that yours did. If those negative ratings have cost me someone talking to me, buying from me, visiting my web site, or anything else, I could honestly care less. If I had come by those neg ratings by being an asshole, treating people badly, scamming people, lying, cheating on my girlfriend, and just being an all around contemptible jackass, then there would at least be some value in them. As it stands, they are meaningless, and a compliment coming from the source they did (negative ratings from such negative people would make them a double negative, I do believe).

In the end, your amazing work speaks for itself. The fact that not one, but two of your houses (one of which remains) stood on my land in Mavericks even while I am a builder myself is testament to how much I like your work. Whenever someone asks me if I know someone who could build for them, I refer them to you. Anyone who has seen your work knows how talented you are - and if someone is going to go by negative, or even positive build ratings to choose their builder, well we all know who they will end up with