What is the worst personal attack you have ever seen in these forums?
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-25-2005 17:31
From: Cocoanut Koala Cristiano, I don't consider the person who treated DogSpot's post with a total lack of respect to be in any sense, "Forum Elite." That notion belongs entirely to others. "Sarcastic" - that doesn't do half to describe it. Sheer sarcasm is never what I am objecting to.
And I would APPRECIATE it if you would quit referring to me as "St. Coco," a "net nanny," or a "self-appointed moralist," or any of the names you, Nolan, and a few others keep coming up with, just because I object to forum bullying, which I would like you to seriously maintain does NOT go on.
As I've said before, you would just like it if I didn't object when these things occur.
That is not going to happen.
But all these constant assaults on me, individually, as a person, isn't going without effect on me, and that is a shame. I daresay if I focused not on instances of bullying or a lack of respect for another person's post
AS IS REQUIRED BY THE TOS
and instead decided to tag you or Nolan with some kind of name, or adjective, such as your favorite theory, "hypocrite," and kept repeating it, month after month, then I think you might eventually get to the end of your patience with it, too, even if it were as long as mine is.
If both "sides" shut up about it and stop "trying to control each other's behavior," then what we are going to get is the bullying and the put-downs and the disrespectul posts from the ONE side, and total silence from the protesting side. That's what you really want, I think.
That just wouldn't be fair. So you aren't going to get it.
coco And being called a "bully", month after month, is ok?
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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09-25-2005 17:35
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Bully
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"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-25-2005 17:39
From: Nolan Nash And being called a "bully", month after month, is ok? When have I called you a bully, Nolan? You and Cristiano have hurt my feelings just too often. coco |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-25-2005 17:43
From: Cocoanut Koala When have I called you a bully, Nolan?
You and Cristiano have hurt my feelings just too often.
coco Generally you dismiss any posters who post contrary to your beliefs as being bullies. Given that we disagree often, in fact, the MOST often - as far as I can tell, I think it's safe to say you are calling me a bully when you trot it out constantly. Are you not? If not, please tell me so. Edit to add: Does it matter if you're calling ME personally a bully? No. You are doing that which you profess to dislike. Calling names and labeling. Removing people's individuality by lumping them into this morass of bullies you claim exists.
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-25-2005 17:44
You know I never have.
coco
P.S. " Generally you dismiss any posters who post contrary to your beliefs as being bullies."
And you know I do not.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-25-2005 17:49
From: Cocoanut Koala You know I never have.
coco
P.S. " Generally you dismiss any posters who post contrary to your beliefs as being bullies."
And you know I do not. Read my edit. And, as you like to do so often, let me state: You do not get to crawl inside my head and tell me what I think or know. You throw that word around endlessly, and its contary to your supposed beliefs about how one should conduct themselves here, regardless of who you are aiming it at.
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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09-25-2005 18:03
From: Cocoanut Koala You know I never have. Hmm. From: Cocoanut Koala One more comment. How many people do you think this is going to work on? You can't keep this up forever. You can't just keep trying to bully people off with personal attacks. There are going to be too many people with a sense of fairness coming to this game for you to run them all off. I guess, technically, since you're fond of using bully as a verb, rather than outright casting it around as a noun, you're basically telling the truth. But sort of a half-truth, as the post history will show. From: Cocoanut Koala But as long as this remains a place where people bully other people and try to run them off, I have no intention of turning a blind eye to it. Funny how most of those are in locked threads, too.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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09-25-2005 19:28
From: Cocoanut Koala Cristiano, I don't consider the person who treated DogSpot's post with a total lack of respect to be in any sense, "Forum Elite." That notion belongs entirely to others. "Sarcastic" - that doesn't do half to describe it. Sheer sarcasm is never what I am objecting to.
Dogspot even concurred that had you not stepped into the situation, they would have simply exchanged some unpleasantries and moved on. However, your championing of someone who didn't need or want your championing because they are nobody's victim did nothing but to flame a situation that did not bear any attention on it. People get snarky with each other, big fucking deal. Dogspot gave as good as she got, and handled it fine. However, your portrayal of Dogspot as some poor person who had been victimized by some horrific personal attack did more of a disservice to Dogspot than anything else. Not everyone enjoys wearing the "I'm a big victim" badge. From: someone
instead decided to tag you or Nolan with some kind of name, or adjective, such as your favorite theory, "hypocrite," and kept repeating it, month after month, then I think you might eventually get to the end of your patience with it, too, even if it were as long as mine is.
If you can find me being a hypocrite, then by all means call me on it. I don't just randomly call you on it to pick on you. You are so adamant about how people should behave, yet your behavior, and the behavior of those you often champion, are hardly beyond reproach. It boils down to judge yourself. You are in no position to judge anyone. From: someone
If both "sides" shut up about it and stop "trying to control each other's behavior," then what we are going to get is the bullying and the put-downs and the disrespectul posts from the ONE side, and total silence from the protesting side. That's what you really want, I think.
That just wouldn't be fair. So you aren't going to get it.
With your definition of fairness, it does not surprise me. Fairness to you comes with conditions, with "but but but", with exceptions. Fair is fair. Yet you somehow find a way to make justifications for certain people who meet your criteria. I would have a lot more respect for what you are trying to do if there were some semblance of consistency. I know you live and die by the TOS, but it is up to LL to determine their own interpretations of their own rules. More importantly, and please understand this, I will capitalize it for you: YOU ARE NOT OUR MOTHER. JUDGE YOURSELF.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
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09-25-2005 19:49
From: Cristiano Midnight
Dogspot even concurred that had you not stepped into the situation, they would have simply exchanged some unpleasantries and moved on. However, your championing of someone who didn't need or want your championing because they are nobody's victim did nothing but to flame a situation that did not bear any attention on it. People get snarky with each other, big fucking deal. Dogspot gave as good as she got, and handled it fine. However, your portrayal of Dogspot as some poor person who had been victimized by some horrific personal attack did more of a disservice to Dogspot than anything else. Not everyone enjoys wearing the "I'm a big victim" badge.
Just for clarification, there were a lot of people who jumped in to that thread in response to my STFU. I don't think it's entirely fair to blame Coco for it. In the end, it was _my_ fault anyway. I was entirely TOO snarky for my own good. I'd like it a lot better if two of the people I like here wouldn't argue so much. 
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Dogspot Boxer
Charter Member Of The Socially Inept Club
Our Motto:
We may be inept, but at least we're social
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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09-25-2005 19:59
From: DogSpot Boxer Just for clarification, there were a lot of people who jumped in to that thread in response to my STFU. I don't think it's entirely fair to blame Coco for it. In the end, it was _my_ fault anyway. I was entirely TOO snarky for my own good. I'd like it a lot better if two of the people I like here wouldn't argue so much. DogSpot, I am not blaming Cocoanut for anything, just pointing out that she was the one who came out in that thread about you, when you were handling yourself perfectly fine. Regardless, it is nice to see personal responsibility - that is a very cool thing.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
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09-25-2005 20:00
Cristiano once called me tasteless. I found that hurtful.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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09-25-2005 20:01
From: Beau Perkins Cristiano once called me tasteless. I found that hurtful. Aww I'm sorry.  Upon reflection, you are very tasty.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-25-2005 23:08
From: Cristiano Midnight Dogspot even concurred that had you not stepped into the situation, they would have simply exchanged some unpleasantries and moved on. However, your championing of someone who didn't need or want your championing because they are nobody's victim did nothing but to flame a situation that did not bear any attention on it. People get snarky with each other, big fucking deal. Dogspot gave as good as she got, and handled it fine. However, your portrayal of Dogspot as some poor person who had been victimized by some horrific personal attack did more of a disservice to Dogspot than anything else. Not everyone enjoys wearing the "I'm a big victim" badge.
If you can find me being a hypocrite, then by all means call me on it. I don't just randomly call you on it to pick on you. You are so adamant about how people should behave, yet your behavior, and the behavior of those you often champion, are hardly beyond reproach. It boils down to judge yourself. You are in no position to judge anyone.
With your definition of fairness, it does not surprise me. Fairness to you comes with conditions, with "but but but", with exceptions. Fair is fair. Yet you somehow find a way to make justifications for certain people who meet your criteria. I would have a lot more respect for what you are trying to do if there were some semblance of consistency.
I know you live and die by the TOS, but it is up to LL to determine their own interpretations of their own rules. More importantly, and please understand this, I will capitalize it for you:
YOU ARE NOT OUR MOTHER. JUDGE YOURSELF. You you you you you. Why don't you talk about the concepts. Such as: Is there bullying in these forums? Does that do them any good? Should it be allowed? Why is it allowed? etc. I don't need any of the people being treated wrongly to be incapable of defending themselves for me to put in my opinion of it as well. Matter of fact, I just ADORE the way DogSpot stands up for herself. She FAR from wore any "I am a victim" badge. And neither do I. coco P.S. And you are not my child. So stop telling me I'm not your mother. |
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Tateru Nino
Girl Genius
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 312
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09-25-2005 23:44
On the original question, name-calling doesn't constitute a personal-attack (in the logical fallacy sense). It's where you disregard all of the proposals or points that a person is making (regardless of their potential validity) because of their (real or imagined) character traits or circumstances: "Oh, that's exactly the sort of things someone like you would say, Tateru!" "But everyone knows Tateru is egotistical and condescending. Her ideas can't be any good." "You're just a big bully, Tat! You said something hurtful in another thread, so shove off, your opinions are not welcome here." The essential fallacy is that the worth of a statement is entirely dependent on who makes it...which obviously isn't so. We can all be right...or wrong at times, regardless of experience, personal circumstances, personality or ideosyncracies of phraseology. ... Of course if we're defining personal attacks as mud-slinging and name-calling and hurtful comments, then I nominate this very thread! Game on, and pass the peanuts! Are there action-replays? I don't want to miss anything.  |
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Daz Honey
Fine, Fine Artist
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 599
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09-26-2005 00:25
From: Tateru Nino We can all be right...or wrong at times, regardless of experience, personal circumstances, personality or ideosyncracies of phraseology. well stated! 'The map is not the territory' as they say in General Semantics. We could all use a lesson on GS, in fact I will host a seminar in world soon unless we have some more qualified people out there, judging by the plethora of discussion here I bet we have some GS students out there! Lets do this forum a favor by going over some of the GS principles that can really help us communicate more effectivly. IM me in world if you are interested (search google for General semantics if you are curious).
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All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up. - Pablo Picasso
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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09-26-2005 02:45
From: Nolan Nash And being called a "bully", month after month, is ok? I have never seen you personally described as such. And beside which, 'bully' is a description, rather than a term of abuse. Oh, I've just remembered - you put me on ignore, didn't you. Oh well, not to worry. |
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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09-26-2005 02:53
In case people have missed it, there is an interesting link in another thread to a Canadian broadcast of 1995 about the new phenomenon of 'Internet', including a laborious explanation of emoticons.
One of the users is interviewed, and what he said I found to be oddly relevant. I hope that people who have read this in the other thread will forgive me, but I think it's worth re-quoting here:-
"There's an interesting kind of restraint that you find. There's not a lot of cursing and swearing; there's not a lot of personal cuts; there's not a lot of put downs, that one would expect to find. There's not screenfuls of "Go to hell!", which is surprising.
... It's interesting, because one would think if you were anonymous you would do anything you want, but people in a group have their own sense of community."
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Sherrianne Hailey
Registered User
Join date: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 71
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09-26-2005 05:43
The worst personal attack I have seen reads as follows: From: someone This lovely designs adorns at least a few of [their] numerous properties, bringing not only a fleeting delight to the eyes of all those who pass quickly by, but also a continuous state of estacy in the neighbors of these lovely signs and the always packed casinos that rest underneath them. These in this fortunate position are blessed with the joy of seeing these masterpieces of prim manipulation every single instant they are on the property they paid for.
It's part of what makes SL so nice - good neighbors, working together to have a good time.
Thanks This sounds a great deal like praise, but the Linden staff shut the thread down almost instantly. It's the worst personal attack because it's so flattering and complimentary, personal attacks generally involve saying something bad about someone. |
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Tang Lightcloud
Sweet & Juicy
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 377
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Jaw Dropper
09-26-2005 06:07
About a year ago I was reading along with a poster who had an issue with a neighbor. From reading this persons side and hearing some of the responses I was understanding this persons position and was near to agreeing with said persons point of view. Then out of know where, said person began verbally atttacking those who were offering their response or defense. From this I had posted one of my very first posts ever. I asked said person why the insult/personal attack - there was no need since the argument as stated seemed pretty valid. The response: I have to personally attack them first since I know they will at some point personally attack me.
That blew me off my chair. A person so crafty and intellectual in most writings and postings can blow all credibility by something as childlike as that comment.
So this may not be the nastiest comment ever, but the mindset of [I have to hit you before you hit me} mentality that I see throughout the forums just flabbergasts me. My brain locks up and I move along.
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-26-2005 06:35
You know, I have an idea. This vague 'there is a mob, bullying mentality in these forums gah!' has really become tiresome and detrimental. Let's all put on the thick skins and surf on over to sluniverse and put it to rest. I personally want to know who thinks who is a bully, and who thinks who is being bullied. Personally I just can't figure it out and the noise ratio has become unbearable.
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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09-26-2005 06:41
From: Lecktor Hannibal You know, I have an idea. This vague 'there is a mob, bullying mentality in these forums gah!' has really become tiresome and detrimental. Let's all put on the thick skins and surf on over to sluniverse and put it to rest. I personally want to know who thinks who is a bully, and who thinks who is being bullied. Personally I just can't figure it out and the noise ratio has become unbearable. I can honestly say that this is the best idea I have ever heard from a Republican. 
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"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
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DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
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09-26-2005 06:44
From: Lecktor Hannibal You know, I have an idea. This vague 'there is a mob, bullying mentality in these forums gah!' has really become tiresome and detrimental. Let's all put on the thick skins and surf on over to sluniverse and put it to rest. I personally want to know who thinks who is a bully, and who thinks who is being bullied. Personally I just can't figure it out and the noise ratio has become unbearable. So we can name names there? Sweet.
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Dogspot Boxer
Charter Member Of The Socially Inept Club
Our Motto:
We may be inept, but at least we're social
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-26-2005 07:09
From: pandastrong Fairplay I can honestly say that this is the best idea I have ever heard from a Republican. Why thank you! And it is already getting action wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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09-26-2005 07:10
From: DogSpot Boxer So we can name names there?
Sweet. You can name names here - depending on who you are and how persistent you are. 
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Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-26-2005 07:13
Hi Merwan ! 
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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