How Would You Define an Inflammatory Post
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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10-04-2005 08:53
From: Pleasure Semple Disagree. I do not see how you could possibly consider that simple logic when it makes no logical sense. It is attacking the poster, and it is irrelevant.
P1 makes a claim that X is bad. P1 continues to partake in X. Therefore, X is not bad. Wrong.
You claim that it is not logical to say something is bad, and continue to do it. How is it not logical? What exactly is not logical? What is your proposition?
Simple post: Make a proposition, and support it with points. Here is a point" Blaze is claiming that X is bad, but partakes in X. What is the proposition? What is your intention? Everything points to a personal attack.
The statement that Blaze made is completely independent of Blaze’s actions. Are we going to discuss the statement or Blaze? Here is a statement: X is bad. Anything you can say about Blaze cannot support or dispute the statement. Anything you can say about Blaze is completely independent of the statement. Is X bad? Yes or no. Provide your points. Does Blaze partake in X? Irrelevant to whether or not X is bad. It is clearly nothing more than discussing the person instead of discussing the statement. People do not exist in a vaccum, and we are not computers. There is more to a discussion than simple logic - this is not debate class, it is a discussion forum. Certainly one can say "x is bad" while continuing to do "x", and it does not change the nature of "x". However, it does speak to credibility when one repeatedly makes hypocritical statements. Credibility and respect are important components of a disussion as well. Human reactions are not simply based on logic, only machines programmed to do so react that way.
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JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
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10-04-2005 08:56
From: Cristiano Midnight People do not exist in a vaccum, and we are not computers. Ah the first computer was a human 
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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10-04-2005 08:57
From: Margaret Mfume The diversionary capability is probably more relevant to consider than the personal attack aspect. Look at how much time has been spent discussing Blaze. It is hardly uncommon for Blaze's posts to be followed by the "he is an alt" disclaimer. Maybe it's sort of a public service announcement for the new user. Kind of like Coco's repeating her new user experience for them as well. I've noticed a greater amount of discussion about Blaze's posting style and his alts in the threads where he appear to be right on topic and hits the nail on the head. There are several other people who post in these forums under alts openly and don't get the same kind of scrutiny. The reason Blaze is scrutinized is because of his repeated statements about simply gaming the forum, and enjoying the fallout.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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10-04-2005 08:57
From: JackBurton Faulkland Ah the first computer was a human  Ah yes, I forgot Adam was a Commodore VIC20. 
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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10-04-2005 08:58
From: Pleasure Semple P1 makes a claim that X is bad. P1 continues to partake in X. Therefore, X is not bad. Wrong.
You claim that it is not logical to say something is bad, and continue to do it. How is it not logical? What exactly is not logical? What is your proposition? First of all, I think the intent is to note that we can't take someone seriously who does not follow their own beliefs. If you prefer, you can take it another way, ie that these are not blaze's beliefs and that this is an example of posting in this particular thread in order to incite people. It is a valid point to make that a poster engages in the behavior he is advocating against. Reason: (and I think this was mentioned) If we all would engage in the behavior we would like to see, first and foremost, only then we can address what we perceive as everyone else's faults. And I really don't see how it is logical to engage in behavior you decry in others. Certainly not if you don't want that behavior emulated by the forum at large.
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MJ Hathor
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 901
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10-04-2005 09:00
From: Cristiano Midnight Ah yes, I forgot Adam was a Commodore VIC20.  OMgah!! I had a Commodore VIC20, I even remember playing a game called Radar Rat Race addictively. Good times! 
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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10-04-2005 09:00
From: Gabe Lippmann And I really don't see how it is logical to engage in behavior you decry in others. Certainly not if you don't want that behavior emulated by the forum at large. I think it's really dirty when people call eachother coi fish. OMFG YOU'RE A COI FISH GABE Yeah, see. That's just a  , right there.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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10-04-2005 09:02
From: Cristiano Midnight There are several other people who post in these forums under alts openly and don't get the same kind of scrutiny. The reason Blaze is scrutinized is because of his repeated statements about simply gaming the forum, and enjoying the fallout. Many participants have made claims to considering the forums but a game. Would it help reduce repetitive gaming alerts for the new or infrequent user if we had a sticky for this forum incorporating all the various disclaimers?
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JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
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10-04-2005 09:04
From: Cristiano Midnight Ah yes, I forgot Adam was a Commodore VIC20.  com·put·er (km-pytr) KEY NOUN: 1. A device that computes, especially a programmable electronic machine that performs high-speed mathematical or logical operations or that assembles, stores, correlates, or otherwise processes information. 2. One who computes. Since people have been computing oh i dont know before 0 B.C. The first computer had to be human hehe
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JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
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10-04-2005 09:05
From: MJ Hathor OMgah!! I had a Commodore VIC20, I even remember playing a game called Radar Rat Race addictively. Good times!  And ENIAC was the first modern day one 
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Pleasure Semple
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 84
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10-04-2005 09:05
From: Cristiano Midnight People do not exist in a vaccum, and we are not computers. There is more to a discussion than simple logic - this is not debate class, it is a discussion forum. Certainly one can say "x is bad" while continuing to do "x", and it does not change the nature of "x". However, it does speak to credibility when one repeatedly makes hypocritical statements. Credibility and respect are important components of a disussion as well. Human reactions are not simply based on logic, only machines programmed to do so react that way. Attacking a person's credibility is not relevant. You do not have to be a machine . Using logic means that you approach a discussion from with logic. There is nothing about it that is not human. As humans, we have every reason to approach a discussion from a logical perspective. Now you are stating that we should not be doing so. The fact is that it is a personal attack. Credebility attacks do not belong in a discussion. It is important to take a statement objectively without allowing the credibility (good or bad) of any individual in a discussion to influence your logical assesment of the statement itself. There is no reason to attack anybody's credebility. There is no reason to discuss anybody's credebility. The credebility of any participant has zero effect on the validity of a statement. Nobody is asking anybody to be a computer.
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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10-04-2005 09:07
From: Pleasure Semple Attacking a person's credibility is not relevant. You do not have to be a machine . Using logic means that you approach a discussion from with logic. There is nothing about it that is not human. As humans, we have every reason to approach a discussion from a logical perspective. Now you are stating that we should not be doing so. The fact is that it is a personal attack. Credebility attacks do not belong in a discussion. It is important to take a statement objectively without allowing the credibility (good or bad) of any individual in a discussion to influence your logical assesment of the statement itself. There is no reason to attack anybody's credebility. There is no reason to discuss anybody's credebility. The credebility of any participant has zero effect on the validity of a statement. Nobody is asking anybody to be a computer. You creep me out.
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Pleasure Semple
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 84
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10-04-2005 09:09
From: Gabe Lippmann First of all, I think the intent is to note that we can't take someone seriously who does not follow their own beliefs. This is to subject a participant, and has no regard for points. You cannot have a proper discussion if you allow the credebility of a participant to influence your assesment of a statement. They have no relation, and should not be deemed related.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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10-04-2005 09:09
It's really sad how running afoul of the disciplinary policy of a community very early on will ruin someone's disposition and turn them into a nasty Mommycop. I've seen this happen too many times before.
For this reason, I always lurk.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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10-04-2005 09:09
From: Chip Midnight Wasn't the "what's the strangest place you've done it" thread posted in general just yesterday one of yours? Heh. Please spare use the lecture. See that's the thing... discussion involves chatting, and debate, and humor, and diatribe. A seminar involves lecture. I'm not here for that. Plenty of serious discussion takes place here every day, along with plenty of discussion that's anything but... and everything in between. Does no one's mouse come with a scroll wheel anymore? Is it traumatic to have to skip past posts you think are off topic or unpleasant? People who can't do that and have to stop in the middle of a thread to stare at the accidents are usually the ones who hold up traffic. A kind of forum rubbernecking that persists long after the wreckage has been moved to the shoulder. The best way to foster the kind of on-topic intelligent discussion you want is to carry on having it. If a fist fight breaks out or a rabbit with a pancake on its head goes bouncing past just ignore it. How is this post a personal attack? This seems rather civil to me, for a SL Forum post. 
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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10-04-2005 09:10
From: Margaret Mfume Many participants have made claims to considering the forums but a game. Would it help reduce repetitive gaming alerts for the new or infrequent user if we had a sticky for this forum incorporating all the various disclaimers? Ok Margaret, I will bite. I am curious, actually. It does not bother you that someone purposely creates threads to incite a reaction from people, will post in opposition just to be contrary, and will shift their beliefs/arguments to ensure maximum negative reaction? Among the many problems in the forums, do you not find this also to be problematic and contrary to a healthy, respectful forum?
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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10-04-2005 09:12
From: Pleasure Semple This is to subject a participant, and has no regard for points. You cannot have a proper discussion if you allow the credebility of a participant to influence your assesment of a statement. They have no relation, and should not be deemed related. I must, respectfully, disagree with this assertion. This is not a college debate team match (do they have matches? bouts? what?). This IS a discussion forum and the credibility of the participant WILL be taken into account by someone who is discussing something with said participant.
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MJ Hathor
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 901
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10-04-2005 09:13
From: JackBurton Faulkland And ENIAC was the first modern day one  I don't recall that one, I know I had another game but obviously not as impressionable cause I can't remember the name.
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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10-04-2005 09:13
From: Pleasure Semple Hopefully you are referring to yourself, and not me.
The "I am rubber and you are glue argument" is highly illogical!
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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10-04-2005 09:14
From: Pleasure Semple This is to subject a participant, and has no regard for points. You cannot have a proper discussion if you allow the credebility of a participant to influence your assesment of a statement. They have no relation, and should not be deemed related. this is totally off topic and I certainly don't expect to convince you of anything, but I believe your approach makes the same error early philosophers did. You are dealing with human beings, and a sophisticated approach examines both the statement itself and the person(s) making the statement. Lord help you if you're ever at the negotiating table.
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DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
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10-04-2005 09:15
From: Cristiano Midnight Ok Margaret, I will bite. I am curious, actually. It does not bother you that someone purposely creates threads to incite a reaction from people, will post in opposition just to be contrary, and will shift their beliefs/arguments to ensure maximum negative reaction? Among the many problems in the forums, do you not find this also to be problematic and contrary to a healthy, respectful forum? I'm not Margret, nor do I play her on TV. But.. People who intentionally troll forums are really, really irritating. All these people do is get people agitated and that's one of the things that starts trouble.
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Pleasure Semple
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 84
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10-04-2005 09:16
From: Gabe Lippmann How is this post a personal attack? This seems rather civil to me, for a SL Forum post.  It's a character attack. It may seem civil, but the point is that character attacks do not contribute to a proper discussion.
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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10-04-2005 09:16
From: Schwanson Schlegel You creep me out. 
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"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
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JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
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10-04-2005 09:17
From: MJ Hathor I don't recall that one, I know I had another game but obviously not as impressionable cause I can't remember the name. Well prepare to be enlightened! http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/comphist/eniac-story.html
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Buster Peel
Spat the dummy.
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,242
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10-04-2005 09:17
Boy, it sure is good that I was wrong when I posted this. Buster
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