Censorship

Ok..censorship and political correctness is just getting out of hand. It is rampant in the present day United State, to the point of book banning, and these forums grow more riculously watered down each week.

I know...LL owns the forums and they can do what they want, but I would hope that they are at least reading threads before closing them. But this doesn't seem to be the case. Good job on caving in and blocking any constructive discussion about sensative issues. Shame on you!





P.S. Refusing to even acknowledge and talk about periods of human history is a great way to make sure no one heals or understands or doesn't repeat past mistakes. Eeek..oh no..that person mentioned a group that was, and probably is still around, and actually talked about it, even if in just a comical way!!! Shut him up quick!

Yes I've wondered about the recent closing of several threads closed by Jessie L.

Usually Jeska's closures are right on, including the most recent one.

In regards to censorship in the US, there are actually books you cannot find or get in public libraries or school libraries. Although Congress cannot legally ban a particular book it can restrict certain data that is deemed confidental or higher in military secrets.

All in all, for LL to censor their forums is acceptable on the grounds that they are the ones providing this extra service of a forum to our membership. When we logged in and paid for the membership we agreed to abide by their contract's rules. Thus that limits the speech we can have not because it nullifies our Constitutional rights but that contractual agreements are in themselves law between private entities[us and LL]. So I think the practical snipping of flames[censorship] is just a common sense requirement when you deal with forums. Although, I like to talk about rather deep subjects, I doubt LL would snip posts that are just detailed in nature[such as discussions about sexuality that are not centered on the pornographic].

-- Bridget

Keep in mind, it is Linden Labs duty to look out for the best interest of the company. If I was a potential investor or something, and read half of these brainless threads, it probably would make me think to say the least.

I already stated that I understand LL has the right to do this. But I was in no way referring to threads with personal attacks or flames. I was referring to closing of threads that discuss sensative or touchy subject matter. Although I disagree with censorship for any reason other than the revealing of RL information.

Well, I don't know which threads you're referring to... o_O I haven't seen any threads closed that were done so in an irresponsible manner...

-- Bridget

Actually, it was not censorship. They left the thread there, and deleted/altered nothing.

What they DID do is generally say the discussion did not belong here, they they did not want it here, and that they didn't want to see more about it here.

Guess what: I can toss people out of my home that offend me with statments I don't like, but i can't stop them from discussing it someplace else.


I know people like the idea of freedom of speech, but that little rule only applies to the GOVERNMENT's ability to shut down things they may not want made public. It does not have anything to do with Linden Labs ability to direct the flow of their own boards.

As far as I know, most SL residence don't read these brainless posts, and the brainless posts are seldom the ones that are closed.

And you have to be a resident to access the forums...so...

And..if any investor would back out of SL because of reading forum discussion..well..then they had better not invest in any online activities

It is censorship if you are told you can't discuss a topic. And, while I agree with most of your post, I'm not arguing their right to. I'm simply stating my dislike of such practices, and my opinion that such censorship does far more harm than good in a broad sense.

Didnt you agree to allow LL to 'moderate' THEIR forums when you signed up?

Too bad Selador isn't around right now. I always love his posts regarding censorship.

No, its smart business. In some countrys certain symbols are illegal (or frowned upon heavily) to display (except under certain conditions) and if your product/business/whatever ignores those laws/wishes they will ban it from being available to their consumers/public. So if LL wants to continue doing business in those countries then they must do what they can to keep those things under control. Its all about $. Blame the laws because LL is just trying to follow them to survive and prosper within them.

I feel I should say that I KNOW being a forum moderator is a thankless and sometimes tough job, and I'm sorry if I sounded like I was attacking those that have this job. I'm sure they are great people, trying to do what they think is right by LL or their own judgement.

I just feel that far too often, in our society, our goverments and our religions, the "don't talk about it" rule is an injustice and a harmful practice. And I hate to see it practiced here. Not long ago, no one talked about incest, or child abuse, or wife beating, or AIDs, or many other subjects that have been at least helped by public awareness and dicussion in more recent times.

I laughed when I found Jesse had locked a thread in the Off Topic forum for being "off topic." Then I wondered if he's kinda new at this.

Im glad its practised here. If it got out of control LL would lose business and possibly shut down. Where do you draw the line? Are there things at your place of employment you cant talk about? There are things here where I work that if I kept on rambling about I would be fired. But its not worth taking a stand here. Why? Because there are other venues to discuss those topics. If you arnt willing to discuss controversial topics regularly and openly in your place of employment, why should LL? Hell there are a ton of things discussed on these forums that I wouldnt dare say at work (except with a very close group of friends). I cant even say "God Bless You" at work without fear of a lawsuit and yes thats sad. I blame the legal system mostly. Until you change the laws, dont expect smart businesses to budge.

You think that if people were allowed to talk about touchy or sensative issues, LL would lose busineess and possibly shut down? Wow..I think you place far too much importance on the link between the Forums vs actual in-world SL. I don't think anyone other than us diehard forum goers would even notice...

Considering the thread you were referring to was about things that were going to happen IN GAME, then yes I see the connection. You didnt?

Not at all. As far as I could tell..what was going to happen, if anything, was being discussed and the original poster was very receptive to most points of view. Most of it was done in a joking manner and then an actual constructive discussion was coming to light from it. That was shut down just because of the subject matter. Just because of one word really. That's just not a good thing in my opinion.

I thought a great part of SL is that it often reflects real-world issues in a virtual environment. Well..it's sad that it can reflect only "government" or "religious" approved real life and/or historical issues, but others are shunned. I thought we were all adults here.

If no one is preaching hatred, abuse or harassment, and open discussion is encouraged, then sorry..I see nothing but good in that.

I agree with you 100% here David. And you know I'm a huge fan of the Lindens and SL. Doesn't mean they always make the right choices. And while yes, it is THEIR company and they can do as they wish, LL has *always* made it known that they want to hear from us. They *do* listen to us. We may not always get the answers we want, but they are listening and there is nothing wrong at all with stating our disapointments as well as our praises.

David,

I am not a fan of censorship at all, and I am aware of the topic that you are referring to. I don't think that is the reason that thread was closed (again, not censored, nothing was removed). What I am about to say may anger some people, since many of the people doing this are friends of mine, but I am sick to death of threads being derailed with the use of pictures meant to taunt and disrupt the flow of conversation - it is childish and makes a lot of threads unbearable to read these days, more so than the blowhard opinions of the posters trying to be disrupted.

It is no surprise that thread was closed, and I don't think doing so was censorship. The original post of a thread sets the topic for that thread - anything else is off topic, no matter the forum. If a thread starts off talking about one thing and devolves into a totally different topic, as this did, the thread becomes meaningless. That is a basic of forum moderation, and not some strongarmed censorship. Look a little more at the behavior that caused the thread to be closed, not the action of closing it.

Problem is, the product that appeals to the lowest common denominator, i.e., "brainless", most often makes the profit. If I were a smart potential investor, I'd realize that LL's product has to appeal to the masses to make big money, and I wouldn't be so concerned about brainless threads on the forums. They reflect a certain level of appeal. If I play capitalism, I play it right.

You know... Common internet forum wisdom says that a thread ends the moment it mentions Nazis or Hitler.



Whoops. Guess this one is over too...

We may not be talking about the same thread. The thread i refer to was closed because it was discussing the viability of n*zi outfits being sexy, and n*zi's used in humor being offensive. It also touched on things such as the use of n*zi symbols in BDSM and shows like Hogan's Heros. It started as a review of a very off-beat, tongue-in-cheek She-Wolf(n*zi-torturer-girl-dominatrix-thingy), and moved on about what is acceptable and what is not.

I myself own and often wear what looks like a cross between a german uniform and a biker getup, and think it's damn nice and sexy, but never in a million years would I ever condone or forward the thinking of a certain historical group known to have committed atrocities.

It was closed, as near as I can tell, simply because it was a discussion about societies take on what is acceptable and what isn't when dealing with such a touchy subject, and it used the word that i semi-edited above.

While I tend to agree with you on this point Cris (I like a lot of the pictures, but only in smaller doses perhaps, and not so many threads?), I do not agree that was the reason this thread was closed.

It *was* censored.

1. The original post had a picture in it that was removed by Jeska


/120/13/45559/1.html#post483417


And then Jeska specifically posted:


/120/13/45559/2.html#post485417


The only other picture in that entire thread was a jar of jam. And it was not removed.
/120/13/45559/1.html

So while agree with part of what you say, I honestly do think *this* time it was a form of censorship on Jeska's part.

Whenever you stop folks from discussing a certain issue, you ARE censoring them. It doesn't just mean editing or deleting things. It also means forbiddding words or subjects.