Sorry for the Nuba nuke

u dont remeber me well remeber my name cuase io want talk to u in world on tues day

At the very least Jillian should of been given her building back. In world your word is your bond. The buiding had an owner reguardless of who owns the land. There was one chance to do the right thing. That didn't happen.

Hugz Jillian your not alone trust me.

Cat

WOW!!! Im actually fully discusted with this whole thing. Even made me consider quitting. I understand what Jillian did. Lensey contacted me a few days before selling so I imagine she contacted others. So the land got sold, I can deal with that... The thing that got me really mad was seeing Anshe's space renter right infront of my vendors with twice as high of rental price on it. What nerve!! Amazing how one persons greed can fully affect the whole SL world. Lesson to learn....Dont ever do any business with her under any circumstances for any reason. Time for a boycott of the SL Enron.

I'm not sure whether you're refering to the buildings currently going up in Samoa/Ross or not, which happen to be next to one of your malls. If that is the case:

Fact: I'm building that area for Anshe
Fact: No prices have been set for rentals yet, as the building isn't complete.

If you're talking about a different spot, then forget I mentioned anything, as I'd rather not get caught up in Yet Another Flame War regerding SL's Rich and Infamous (infamous for better or worse, the description doesn't reflect my personal oponion of any person or class of people in SL.)

While I do not claim to know Anshe, I have met both Lensky and Jillian.

I have found Jillian to be a fair and honourable person both personally and professionally.

I have purchased and sold a bit of land here and there and at no time have EVER considered the items on the land to be included in the sale of the aforemention mentioned land.

Perhaps it is my misunderstanding but in this case it would appear that the payment for the architecture and building was Jillian's right to have a shop on the site long term. With the new owner, it would appear that Jillian attempted to protect both of them by offering to sell her the buildings that comprised the mall. In the real world, when property is purchased, terms of rents and leases change. Anshe herself posted some of her new rules in regards to this location in the Classified section (shopping) of the forums.

I was informed of the amazingly low ball figure that Jillian asked for, I was more surprised that Anshe did not just decide it that the building was worth it.

Now when her rights at a stall were terminated Jillian took back her mall. The mall was her physical and intellectual property.

SL is not the real world, and when you buy land in here you may or may not get the building.

No Elle, Im not worried about Ross, Im refering to my stalls at Nuba mall.

DNA

I know this is off topic, but Anshe why has your English suddenly got worse?

Now, hold on one cotton-picking moment here. I don't mean to derail this thread, but....

...this is what Lensey told me happened to her mall in Rogla. Some months ago, when she held a contest to pick someone to redesign it for her. She said that Linkin broke up with her the previous night and destroyed the mall.

You mean, they got back together, then broke up again and he destroyed the Nuba mall this time?!

There's something weird going on here....

(oh, and on the matter in hand, I can vouch for Jillian being a wonderful, upstanding person who would not deliberately hurt anyone and who would go out of her way to help people.)

Probably for the same reason your manners have suddenly gotten worse...


I read these threads and usually stay out of them because they just spiral the drain...but it never ceases to amaze me that how someone speaks becomes a factor of someones merit. If you have a point to make about the situation make it ....just do it withought bashing someones english skills

But..but...you did that just a while ago in this thread.

I was just going to point Talen into this same direction.

I was not insutling Anshe, we are on decent terms, but her English seemed to change quite a bit in this thread... as far you trying to act like some sort of saint... well Talen it is not going to happen... you are an ass to everyone you possibly can be on these forums and everyone knows it.

let us not confuse metaphors for reality.

what jillian contributed to the site was not architecture but information. jillian held the rights to that information and never licensed it to another player. unlike real land, virtual architecture is not tied to the land.

if i paid somebody for a building project in SL, i would tke ownership of it so that i would have control of the license i paid for unless i implicitly trusted the designer.

Information not architecture? Didn't she build a mall? Isn't that what this is all about?

Confused now.

I'm still trying to get my mind around someone paying "rent" to keep another person's build on their land.

Is this a common practice in SL?

And what's all the talk about being behind on the payments?

We so desperately need a tabloid to take this stuff off the forums. Sheesh, it's a mall, people. It takes a few hours at the most to throw up some cubic prims to provide floors and walls for those vending machines to sit on. Don't even need ceilings!

when we confuse SL land for Land, or SL architecture for Architecure, we would believe that the exchange of land naturally includes the exchange of architecture.

but land is really Prim Allowance, and architecture is really Information regarding Prims. Jillian never sold or gave a license to Lensey for her creative content. Instead, their agreement was that Jillian would use Lenseys Prim Allowance to rez her creation.

this is why i stated that if i were to pay a designer to do work for me, i would request ownership, a License. in the design world, having paid a designer for work, the client is entitled to share in the ownership of the intellectual property. at least that is often how it works in architecture.

Sensual,

<< but Anshe why has your English suddenly got worse?>>

I know people claim to detect a difference in Anshe's various postings; perhaps there is, but I've never noticed it. The fact is, her English is better than that of the majority of posters in these forums.

> what jillian contributed to the site was not architecture but information. jillian held the rights to that information and never licensed it to another player. unlike real land, virtual architecture is not tied to the land.

Actually, architecture within SL probably falls within the bounds of "literary works".

Azelda

Yes I did do that ....and it was joke.....whenever anyone does it with anshe its not....specially you dear.

As for me being an ass to nearly everyone on the forums...thats laughable....maybe you were thinking of your own posting history.

Any dealings I have had with Jillian, she has always beeen friendly and helpful.

Whether you want to call her mall architecture or information is pretty irrelevant I would have thought. The fact is that Jillian built that mall, it has her name all over it, and once the agreement she had with the land owner was broken by that person selling the land, how can anyone argue that she doesn't have the right to remove her property?

Haney reminded us of the forum rules - I hope they also apply to thread originators too?

Latonia

the relevance is implicit in the second sentence. the fact that jillian had her "name all over it" and that the agreement was withethe previous land owner, and that she has the right to remove it is are all indicative of the failure of the "architecture" metaphor. Architecture is rooted in the earth. the architect cannot come over the next day and hoist it away with a crane. as long as people confuse the distinction these arguements will continue to arise.

Regardless of the drama by known D-Queens, Jauani's right -- this incident has brought up some interesting issues.

We are encouraged to think of "land" in SL as "real" -- when the purpose is to entice us to buy it, pay for it, build on it, or in many cases, use it. However, when it comes to our "rights" to the "land", or when the use of the land goes outside mainstream acceptance, its status often reverts to "pixelated information". In other words, where convenient, the land is real -- and where convenient, the land is mere pixelation.

I suspect the same is true of creativity, content, and builds on the "land".

Any land-owner employing a builder in SL needs to have an agreement about her/his rights to the build. Any builder should expect at least a partial surrender of those rights on payment, subject to negotiation with the land-owner.

Unfortunately, any agreement between the two is unforceable and therefore null -- because there are no real contract laws, sureties, nor bond arrangements in Second Life. As long as there aren't, land and content will continue to interpreted for the maximum convenience of either side of the issue -- and we'll continue to see these disputes.

Anyone looking at this particular issue can see that it's costly and inefficient, and drains creativity, besides. Which is the (enormous) price of doing business in a virtually-lawless virtual world. Frontier raiders and rapiners clean up in these circumstances, until the community finally shows up at their door with torches and pitchforks. Real business people with stable, long-term agendas do far better when the playing field is lightly regulated.

This is one of those threads where I'm glad I had nothing to do with! LOL!

It's not like there isn't 100 other malls in SL anyway for all the vendors to put their stuff in.
It's not like Jillian can't find another buyer for her mall, since I'm assuming she kept a copy of her build.
It's not like it's any surprise that a misunderstanding in business has grown into a vindictive heated battle.

...

Since common sense and courtesy are apparently dead and moot, it seems there are three contracts that actually existed:
- Anshe had a contract to purchase land from Lensey. Contract fulfilled.
- Jillian had an agreement with Lensey to build a mall and provide vendor space. Lensey seems to have kept up her end of the deal as long as she was owner.
- Anshe and Jillian both acknowledge that they spoke about paying for the mall. Unless Jillian provides some statement to the contrary, it was left that Anshe would research things.

The disagreement seems to hinge on a claim by Jillian that her vendor's presence in the mall was part of the contract. However, by this thread, no assertion of this was given to Anshe. As a new business partner, a new contract would have to be arranged. Technically, Anshe removing that vendor is as per discussions.

Since Anshe had no formal contract, Jillian was techinically in her right to remove the mall, backing out of dealings.

...

What's a shame is the series of miscommunications that occured. So that perhaps people might see both sides of this in the same post, I'll just run them down. Remember, technically speaking, none of these were "required":
1. Jillian was kept in the dark about the deal by Lensey. If my landlord was going to sell my apartment, I sure as heck hope he'd perhaps tell me. I don't see it as Anshe's responsibility since I believe a seller should take care of the details for the buyer.
2. Anshe, after speaking with Jillian, could not wait even 1 day to finish up the dealings with Jillian and finalize the mall before she did housekeeping.
3. Jillian could not communicate with Anshe to find out what happened to her vendor. What if it had been accidentally deleted or returned? Instead she removed the mall, and while she has that right, there were a whole bunch of tenants who were left in the cold.
4. Anshe did not communicate with Jillian when the mall was gone, before she neg rated / banned her. What if the mall being returned had been an accident, or a misunderstanding?
5. Anshe aired her concerns on the forum before other means were exhausted. There's no mention of her trying to contact Jillian or Lensey or the Lindens before doing so. Posting about someone in the forums as a "risk" or "threat" to the community ought to be kept as a last resort.
6. You all bickered here. Well, not Lensey. Her admission that she is away and can't talk yet is further proof that this is unresolved and should not have been put in the forums until it had been resolved.

I hope the personal attacks can stop. It's clear you're all technically right, and yet you're all morally incorrect in at least one of your actions.

DEEP breath, people.

Yeah, but then we'd have nothing to talk about.

Azelda

hiro, you are a drama queen