front page picts

ok.

i think that's short-sighted and doomed.

i hope they come up with something that preserves the spontaneous nature of the front page, but prevents abuse.

I haven't seen it abused yet. Sort if in the don't fix it if it isn't broken theory.

i think the things hiro managed to get up there qualifies as a problem, though not abuse as yet.

Well now I confess my own ignorance, what did hiro get up. So far all I have seen of controversy is Tcoz Sign. And frankly I see no problem with that. Sure it protests a procedure used by the lindens, but SL is a community with dissenters as well. And asshats. In my mind I have respected LL for not taking a disneyesque approach to the SL community. They allow debate and take criticism well. I think this ultimaltey makes the community stronger.

As far as the pictures on the page, I don't think anyone intrigued by all the possibilites of SL, who is bombarded with as much information as the SL website gives them, will be put of by someone protest sign. If anything I think they may want to join and find out what all the damned drama is about.

it's tcoz' sign, but hiro is the one that posted it.

I hope there is - of course the point I'm making is there wouldn't BE a problem if we (as in each and every one of us) acted just a little better.. that goes for just about everything in SL.. right down to these forums. Alas, that's a pipe dream and isn't about to happen anytime soon.

I don't have a problem with his sign or statement (even if I don't agree with his conclusiions) - He made it in world on his own land. And thats cool.

However a third party snapped it onto the front page and subsequently posted it here for (what was in my opinion) fodder from the forum jackals - dragging Tcoz into not one, but 2 forums fights.

*In my opinion* it was done deliberately for that purpose. To sit back and chuckle at the ruccus it would create..

Thats the problem at its root. It's not the LACK of a filter - I totally agree with you - having a PG zone limitation *should* be enough. Unfortunately there are a few folks who will do things simply because they *can*.

I think this problem was solved by several people, several pages ago.

I hadn't realized I had done so. Had I been aware of this another thread that saw the issue, i wouldn't have snapshotted it.

But, it IS on my land, and the signs are DEFINITELY meant to grab attention. If the post was closed and buried, as you say it did, can you blame someone for missing it in all the forum spam?

yeah right a couple of posts down the main page -- buried... Sorry, I don't buy it. And my opinion on your motives is not likely to change.

So you say what you wanna say, and I'll beleive what I wanna beleive.

I'm sure as time wears on more and more people will open thier eyes around the place, and simply stop playing the game...

Siggy.

*sticks his fingers in his ears and stomps his feet* LALALALALALALALALALALA I DONT BELIEVE YOU BECAUSE THAT MAKES ME WRONG! LALALALAALALALALA!!!

...

I woulda thought I had more street cred with you, but apparently my past actions don't mean squat.

Nope I guess not -- btw nice mature reply from someone admonishing me for immaturity And I don't believe simply because it the simplest and most direct answer leads me to beleive otherwise....

Its that simple.

Now if your finished, we can go back to topic.

Siggy.

LALALA>... oh, back to the topic? Sounds like a good idea.

...

I don't think there's really any solution than for LL to screen the pictures. People who want to be crafty about sending pictures can always defeat a computer's filtering.

Hey Jake, you are one perspicacious dude.

It's very heartening to see that SL is evolving. Hopefully it will stick.

IRONY

*chortle* You're not kiddin'

I always find these accusations of a mob mentality to be highly insulting to the intelligence of the multitude of individuals who arrive at similar points of view as a result of their own individual ideas and intellects. Writing off ideas as being group think or mob inspired me-to-ism simply because they are widely agreed on isn't a realistic characterization of prevailing attitudes. I hold the opinions that I hold because they're what I've arrived at through my own individual thinking on these subjects, not because it's what other people think or because I'm trying to go along with "the crowd." The forums are populated by far more hardcore individualists than sycophants.

I agree.

Wait... no I don't...

Damn it, I can't win!!!

Who have I assualted personally Ingrid? Or what do your find condescending about my attititude? Or is the Irony you see based on the fact that I advocate reasonable discourse? I would disagree with ou on posts. There is nothing Ironic in what I say. A dash of hypocrisy, maybe, but I don't think Irony. I did not have any snide intent in my own remarks.

It would be a mistake to see my assualt on the mob mentality as assesment of anyone's particular mental ability. Individually each of you may well have valid reasons for your dislike of a particular individual. You may be righ and justified. But on the whole, in these forums, when someone expresses an idea that is unpopular, or if they have simply made themselves unpopular, this community (all of us) tends to respond with an assault. It very quickly results in personal attacks that have very little to do with the underlying topic. This does not just happen to one particular resident, however in the case of some residents, the fangs are out before it proverbial ink is dry on the post.

I guess I would not automatically assume that the mobbing I have seen in these forums is simple group think or me to ism. Thats the real danger of the process to me, is that smart people with good intentions arrive at these conclusions. In my mind these people should let the hostility go. I should take my own advice too. there are times when I have been pushed into anger by the attitudes of people in the forums. I have responded to people with my own venom, or smug single word responses.

Look I am relativly new to the forums, but I do actually read them. And sometimes when people should walk away and ignore something, they pile on. I will, by my own nature take the contrarian point of view. I have never said otherwise. I make no bones about enjoying a spirited argument, and one that does not devolve into a resounding round of "fuck yous."

No to avoid a total Hijack of this thread: For me the ideas that need to be protected are the dissident rantings. Maybe its a case of holding the mad hermit sacred, or maybe its that I am all to close to being the subject of an organized shunning myself, but I think the notion of free discourse should protect these people. Presumably we are all smart enough to see the buffoonery for what it is. Thus I am not so worried about protest posters on SL. I would worry about adult material, but that seems to be taken care of. So far I have not seen anything in the pictures that rises to the level of abuse, so I think the the notion of "fixing" the problem is unnecessary.

Not to speak for Ingrid, but I think her comment about the irony of your statment was that the person you're defending gets so much heat because their attitude and delivery are so incredibly condescending. You seem to have the cart before the horse. Ranting isn't sacred or useful, it's simply ranting. We should all be striving for reasoned debate comprised of give and take. Megaphone wielding street preacher style lectures by people unwilling to look beyond their own preconceived notions are something we should be trying to discourage, not protect.

But sometimes those megaphone wielding street preachers can spark a reasona debate among others. Besides, in protecting speach, you are protecting ideas, and you have to protect all of it, even those that are repugnant. We might have to agree to disagree on ranting, though, for me a good rant is sacred.

I think I said in an earlier thread (likely now deleted-of course), that we don't ague to persuade our opponents, we argue to persuade our readers. Sometimes there is no give and take to even reasond debate. We must each make our points, hopefully reasonably, and hope people are swayed. In all actuallity this sort of this does happen frequently in the forums. I say put the ideas in the market and let the consumers pick.

Jake, I think you're making a huge leap by assuming anything happening is Group Think. What that is doing is trivializing peoples' very valid grievances with someone who came out of the gate with an extremely abrasive, insulting and accusatory manner. Not to mention so much envy and bitterness it was palpable.

I've expressed unpopular opinions before, and I've taken my lumps for them and stood by them, and it's always been water under the bridge. Someone who vehemently disagreed with me in one thread would be cracking jokes with me in another. I've seen this with several posters, time and time again in these forums. Yet you and your hapless maiden seem to want to claim the backlash she suffers is from expressing contrary views. Not true. If that were the case, several long time posters here would be suffering the same disdain for expressing their views, and they simply aren't. The topics have changed, and the attitude with them.

Many of us can strongly disagree with an idea without disliking the person who expressed it. But when that person shows themselves time and again to be filled with nothing but bitterness, then yes, it does become a dislike for that person. To feel anything else would be stupid and naive, not to mention bullshit, because it's human instinct. How many times do you let a dog bite you before you stop trying to pet it? How many more times before you kick it in the teeth?

Who's to determine what's ranting and what's merely contrary opinion that is unpleasant for the community to have to deal with? Is it going to be you, Chip?

Or is it going to be Siggy, who thinks "GFY" is a reasonable reply to anyone with a strong opinion?

I think the best approach is that we all treat each other with respect and abuse report / ban those who demean, insult, or speak about others in deragotary terminology.

I soo agree Jon! I know I've personally totally agreed with some folks on some issues, and totally disagreed with them on other issues, and I've never held a grudge about any of them, and hope they didn't either!

As long as we argue opinions and ideas, and try to keep from taking it to insulting the poster instead of their posts, it should all be just opinion, logic, and idea spouting.

Unfortunately, once someone starts getting personal or abrasive, it seems to quickly degenerate..

BTW: Legalize upskirt AV photography!!

I would think common sense would be the best judge.

Whose common sense? The term doesn't mean anything unless it's defined. The majority? I couldn't support that.