front page picts

Well, images on the main map should at least be moderated.

Images in the window at the bottom aren't as important as they'll flit by pretty quickly.

Okies lets see - we take an already existing hot button issue (that of public keys) and snap - watch a snapzilla thread get started and closed over it - and when an alternative thread is posted about the snapzilla/homepage issue - you post the exact self same image... I've supplied more than enough points - you just choose to ignore them, and thats fine - because I'm sure that a lot of other people see exactly what your doing... I'm just saying it out loud...

So *once again* go back and read what I originally posted - it says NOTHING about your 'free speech' or half the other issues you wish to tie in -- and thus -- I won't discuss them. I've said my peace - I think your being a shitstirrer. And thats all she wrote -- you can go point for point and try and tie in irrelevant info if you wish - I've stated my case and thats all I'm gonna bother saying.

And no - I didn't bother reading your blog.

Siggy.

There have been plenty of images which have been on the homepage that I would like to have seen moderated. For example, there was a bunch that I considered spam (though some others did not).

I personally found the notice more amusing then offensive, though graduating up to the main map was a problem.

I think the home page stands for what we all, as a community, represent.

So, 'shitstirrer' or not, it's a good conversation which I was really hoping we'd have sooner rather than later.

Speaking of which, are the pics down? They're not rotating for me at the moment (3 hours / 4 hours / 8 hours)..

Ok, I'm confused. Small wonder!

When I go to http://secondlife.com/ I get the normal website with the map and the three pictures at the bottom.

When I click on the link Hiro and originally Panda posted, I get a whole different page and it is the page with the one big picture on the right. Which by the way, that picture is gone now and just a red x in its place.

Where my confusion comes in is the difference in the two links. Which one is really the home page of secondlife.com? Where did this new link come from? What am I missing?

Yeah, I agree. The medium size pictures don't do the wonder of SL justice.

I still find it remarkable that my sign, moved from the confines of SL into RL, is creating so much analysis of potential harm, when none has occurred.

However, any suggestion that compiling and distributing account and key data may be abused and negatively effect the SL environment is generally shrugged off as hysteria.

This is a legal use of the Linden mechanism. And people imply it is gaming the system. And compiling lists isn't? Please. And I again remind you I had nothing to do with this other than creating the sign WITHIN SL and posting it WITHIN SL. Because that's where the info and resources that private, individual subscribers pay LL to use BELONGS. You want your stuff out there, go ahead. But leave me out of it. Opt out and key masking is total BS. What if I was to tell people that I will put one of these signs everywhere I possibly can legally, and that you must opt out for me to remove it...and then all I did was leave a blank sign, or a sign with a title? You wouldn't be satisfied until it was entirely removed, would you? No, I didn't think so.

It is not the sign that is the problem for so many. It is what the sign says. People don't like the idea of having this message get out to non subscribers.

But it's true, and is exactly as stated on that sign. Would you suggest LL hide this info, or downplay it until they have your money?

This message SHOULD be in the user agreement. So people know.

FYI, I have received a few tells of people saying (not from the small forum population) that they were entirely unaware of this state of affairs, and don't like it. So I am gaining some modicum of support in my efforts to ensure people within SL being forced to appear on these lists, and that potential subscribers, are aware that LL is not in fact protecting security and privacy "in the broadest sense" at all. Because they aren't.

This is exactly what I've come to expect from SL. It's just like flashing towers that are legally constructed. It's all about taste and opinion, and has nothing to do with consistent application of rules or principles. And yes, I do believe a certain class of resident has more input than the rest. It's not hard to believe something you've seen.

Ok, now lets have 100 posts of why this is just hysteria, and how it's different.

To me Tcoz, it isn't the question you raise itself that makes some think it is "hysteria", but more the wording/tone of the message you present. In reading the sign, it comes across as if something *bad* could happen due to this information being avialable/used in the way you describe (and there is clearly debate on whether it really is bad or not). If it was simply presented as a matter of fact, while letting the reader decide if it were a "good or bad" thing, then it takes the "hysteria" factor out and just leaves it as a "this is how it is just so you know" type thing.

At least that is my perception for what it is worth.

Clicking a green dot on the map will bring you to a page with a pic from that sim.

Whew! Thank you Vestalia! I still can't figure out how the other link was found, but at least now I know about the green dots. hehe

My intent is to convey that something bad can happen. Because it can. Alice Blue with flowers would not accurately convey my sentiment and would in fact put the opposite spin...that nothing bad can happen. Which would be ridiculous.

LL states they will pursue and take action against spammers. Does anybody, based on their track record of dealing with griefers of even the worst and most violent kind, honestly believe they will do so effectively?

After almost three years of seeing the same old story, I do not. How much faith are you supposed to have? A person who threatened me directly with a violent attack just started another alt and then tried to convince me I was reponsible for that alts suicide. Sure, I'm betting he got a warning, possibly banned (doubtful). So, he'll just start another alt. And some day, I'll have to deal with it again. If they can't lock that down, there is no way they will catch an alt spamming from some IP somewhere in some internet cafe.

This alt, who knows nothing about scripting evidently, now banned and bitter, can visit one of these lists, get my key, and start spamming away. Access to the SL environment is in no way required.

And will SL catch one occassional spam? No. They will notice a large number of incoming mails. But aside from that, it's just another email to my key, which is fine.

The measure is to forbid it. Keep SL within SL unless people give explicit consent. And even then, they are giving explicit consent to use info that is in fact owned by LL. So, as many have pointed out, you do not have the right to give that consent. Nor to assume it.

Only LL does.

And now we have extended this issue out to the public internet, for ALL to take advantage of. Sometimes you just have to know where to draw the line, and I hold that the boundaries of the privately owned community I pay to use my unique account info in is that line.

LL is free to do as they wish with the info. YOU should not be. Remember that your 1st life profile is "public info". Popular wisdom now seems to be, "then don't put anything in there".

And all this "find tool" stuff just misses the point. The Find Tool is a mechanism within SL, used by the members of SL. It is not a tool posted on the public internet for anybody to search for active members of SL. It does not return account keys. I therefor have no objection to it.

A rose is a rose. And dirt is dirt.

Tcoz you are out of it, at least to me. In Panda's "Stupidland" thread I mentioned how I didn't have a problem with what you or Hiro did. My analysis is not about you. I hope that clears things up.

The analysis by Stoneself and I was a reaction to what we believe will eventually be a difficult marketing decision for the Lindens. What must LL do when images appear on the SL homepage that are both clearly legitimate expressions of free speech AND highly embarrassing images from a marketing standpoint.

I think for those who enjoy having the photos on the SL homepage, there is good reason to ponder methods of monitoring the content. Here is the worst case scenario we should hope to avoid:

1. Angry obsessed user continues to post (perhaps by automation) images that are WELL within TOS/CS but are highly embarrassing to Second Life.
2. Linden admins become utterly crippled as to how to deal with a user's damaging but legal behavior.
3. Due to pressure from the marketing department, Lindens opt to remove homepage photo feature rather than make difficult/controversial administrative decision on content.

This is, of course, the worst case scenario for this feature. As many of you stated, it may never come to this, and if it does we can deal with it then. I just think it's a legitimate topic to discuss ideas on how to head this problem off at the pass.

Ya know, I think we're all 'obsessed' and you don't have to be angry to want to express an opinion.

Personally, I'm less concerned about someone who wants to protest and more concerned about people who constantly send up pictures of their favorite shopping sim.

At least in the former, there is no financial incentive to do it endlessly. In the latter, there is incentive to invest in an architecture that will let you spam the home page.

Aimee, read all the threads and posts regarding this topic. You clearly do not speak for the entire community. You are entitled to your perspective of course.

Read my post and you will see I only spoke for myself.

Ya I think you listed two completely different but equally valid issues. Unlike damaging propaganda, I doubt advertisements will compel the marketing department of LL to pull the plug on the homepage pic feature. BUT I do think it would be undesirable for the more resourceful businesses in SL to co-opt a community feature. With Linden Lab loathing any kind of subjective decision making it will be nearly impossible for them to differentiate between business and non-business use of the feature (Here is a photo of me and my friend Trin...standing in front of *PREEN*)

I suspect, if this actually ever becomes a problem, the answer will be some simple feature addition. Perhaps only 1 pic per person gets published per hour...or something like that.

I think they should move the feature off the Front page and to the Community page, or somewhere else that has to be logged into to be seen. Find some other nifty marketing trick for the front page that doesn't risk little Johnny (who has not signed up or logged in promising that he's 1 stumbling across a photo of a giant particle spewing penis, and having little Susie homemaker raise holy hell.

If the Lindens think that a PG Zone filter will stop that sort of thing, I'd recommend they log in every now and then. Not two weeks ago I ported to the WA and was greeted by a 10 meter high vagina. Welcome to SL!

The front page should be more easily controlled. It's the first impression people will get of SL. Putting up resident snapshots, as fun as it may be, is about as wise as making the forums front page.

Keep the map, but have people submit photos from sims, and use the most attractive of the lot.

Why do you believe your key/name (as they are one and the same) can be "spammed" by someone even if they do not have access to SL? How would this be possible as your avatar *only* lives within SL?

And I agree Jon. Just because it is relegated to PG sims, doesn't mean someone couldn't just slap on a Mature attachment in a PG sim and send a picture.

Personally I don't care, but I know that LL is wanting to keep the website PG (why they would want to is of course another discussion in and of itself). The only way they are going to be able to keep this feature AND make sure nothing "non-PG" (or whatever else they wouldn't want) slips through, is to have some live person scanning the pictures.

To me it would seem they could just collect a bunch of the images over a week. Take one day and a couple of hours to screen them, then let those be the rotating pics for the next week. Keeps it new and fresh, little time to scan, and will help weed out the photos they would not want on the front page.

ok how did this become about keys and stuff?

if this thread is getting hijacked, i'll do it!

this thread is about me and my issues, nevermind:
- the frontpage
- the way it's being filtered
- whether or not there is a problem in need of a solution
- or a solution in need of a problem
- why assume pg is safer than mature
- why leave the mature sim out
- should a human vet the images

NO!

i hear by declare that this thread is about ME!

Well actually, given my own voice. My post was not really about anyone in particular. It was more about the way the mob tends to form like a wave around unpopular ideas, or persons, and shout them down. As an aside, Prokofy is not the only one who has been the victim of this behavior, when he is gone the mob will find someone else.

That being said, my point was that there is a danger in letting the masses enforce what is "good" and "bad." Suddenly we have a post somewhere that suggests LL does not take action fast enough, and that LL is not always wise. the inference then is that the community "knows whats best for SL" and that ideas that run contrary to the community are "bad for SL." We should therefore fix the problem so that no "bad for SL Ideas get expressed."

This is my understand of the gist of the arguement on this thread. It seems to me that the forum community wants to establish itself as a player governemtn in SL, with the powers of censure and reprimand. Of course I am not sugesstign there is a plot or conspiracy to do this, its just the way of the mob. Shout down that which is unpopular. Slow and unwise as they may be, I'll trust linden labs before I will a collection of players, even if thjat collection includes myself.

My understanding is that Tcoz put a sign on his land that warned about a danger he saw in LL policies with respect to data disclosure. This thread was put up to discuss how the problem may be fixed. I raised the point that there may not be a problem, and that this seemed to be to be more about shutting down things that were contrary to the "good" of SL. I could me mis reading.


What I did not do was lauch a simple defense of prokofy. In truth if one reads my posts over the past week they are rarely about defending the merits of Prokofy's Ideas (though I do agree with some of them). Rather I advocate allowing him to speak, as often and as much as he wants, about whatever he wants. I'd do the same for anyone else. I also advocate maturity and restraint in debate, thouggh I confess I have in the past gleefully stirred a fire for my own amusement. I condemned, Still condemn, and will always condemn the organized shunning of any individual as a personal attack. I also condemend the hypocrisy which insulted prokofy for one thing, while doing exactly the same thing in the process.

I make no secret that I enjoy a cordial acquaintance with Prokofy, but we are mere acquaintances. I am not a defender of prokofy as much as an advocate of reasonable discourse and an opponent of personal assualts and condescending attitudes. If that tosses me in Prokofy's camp in the eyes of the forum community. So be it. I cannot wish to be associated with people who will insult me before they know me.

since this thread has been hijacked... i think prokofy gets about the same level of courtesy as he extends to others. since he extends it to so many, the effect is magnified many times.

now do you have anything to say about the front page?

if you want to start a thread about prokofy, go do that. stop hijacking this thread.

I think its a cool feature - I also think that having an on duty Linden clicking through pictures and policing them takes people away from other things that are probably more productive.

It comes down to policing US.. and we are supposed to be reasonable adults..

You CAN whap on a 9ft dildo and take a snap in a PG area -- you CAN take snaps to protote drama on the forums (see - it just happened!) or further a political adgenda..

But does that mean you *should* do it?

If I just added a nifty fun feature, but realised later that it was being abused and would require constant attention and a subsequent loss of manpower - I'd just yank it off the page...

Siggy.

can you keep the feature on the front page without needing to yank it?

if the only choice is to leave it alone until it gets abused, then take it down when it does get abused... that kinda sucks for a really cool feature.

so the question becomes, is there a way to prevent abuse without involving lotsa person time and without spoiling the spontaneous nature of the feature? or is the only solution to yank the feature when it gets messed with?

Um Stone, my point about the front page was also in that post and in my previousl post: ther eis nothing worng with the front page as it is. The lindens deployed a PG filter. everything else is fair game.