Public Apology

Everything in this post is garbage.

Make a mountain of a molehill. Nolan has courage enough to apologize, yet you seem to demand a pound a flesh by continuing your fairly tale of harrassment while you harrass others. Nobody believes your drivel.

Weedy, you are what is wrong with this game.

There is entirely too much use of terms like "Nobody" and "everyone" and "most people" in the forums in general and in this thread in particular.

You do not have permission to speak for me or what I do or do not believe. No, nor anyone else. I reserve all rights to put my own opinions and beliefs to words when and if I choose to do so.

This is how a little man responds to criticism.

In the previous post, "nobody" was too broad a term. Truth is, I don't believe your drivel, and I'm aware just by my reading skills that others don't either. I am a big enough person to admit a mistake too, as is Nolan and the reason for this post. Are you incapable of accepting it? Or would you just rather use it for a boisterous public attack?

To tell me I am what's wrong with this game is pathetic, Prokofy.

Trying to blame Weedy for 'what is wrong with this game' is inane.

That would be almost like blaming you for this whole fiasco - unjustified and simply untrue.

That's why I don't wear them. Commando, baby!

For someone who said he was sincere in his apology, you sure took it back quick.

If you deny what you did was wrong, then you're not apologizing for anything.

Hiro,

Why are you so fixated on his apology? He did not deny he was wrong. Note the capital I WAS WRONG. That does not mean he has to lie back while people whack him with a stick and say whatever the hell they please about a situation they were not even part of. This whole thing spilling into the forums has made the truth of the situation impossible to get to, and people like yourself playing armchair critic on a apology serve no purpose whatsoever. Ultimately this is between Nolan, Prokofy and Linden Lab. Quit trying to dictate the validity of an apology.

Okay, I was hoping to leave it as I had, but I'll reply.


I'm more fixated on the reaction to his apology. It amazes me how we can cheer for people who just apologized for something; apologies don't make it "all better", it's just talk; really the test is whether the person apologizing truly changes their ways or not.

Plus, privacy is one of my button-push issues, and regardless of how little respect for Prok I have, I would feel completely vulnerable knowing there was someone out there from a MMO googling and researching my RL identity.


Yes, but for what? He downplayed what he was sorry for, to the point where he basically said, "Hey, what I did was within TOS, but since I've been threatened with litigation, I'm sorry for not breaking the TOS."

A real apology might be, "Hey, I'm sorry for stalking you."

In general, anytime an apology is followed with an explanation that the victim does not agree with, it makes it ingenuine. It'd be like me punching you in the face and saying, "Sorry, my hand slipped."

In a way, Nolan is being genuine - he's just being genuine about far less than is implied.



It was made public on the forums. Nolan chose to make it a public issue. And the people chastising Nolan are HARDLY "whacking him with a stick". I believe each and every one said something like, "Well it's good you apologies but no need to cheer him" or something of the sort.


I'll use the same logic I used with (certain troll whose name I won't say for fear of summoning him): If you post it on the forum, you're specifically asking for feedback. Period.


Ultimately, the punishment aspect is between those three. But the apology is public. There's a clear difference between the two

Nolan is a respected person in this community. I still respect him. I respect him for at least making a token apology. But for people rallying and putting him on a pedestal is a bit absurd.

Nolan PM'd me and revealed something I'd missed:
He said he wasn't the person who did the googling.

Now I'd read a whole bunch of the threads about this, and from the original apology post, it seemed to indicate that he had "discovered" the info himself.

I take Nolan at his word, since it's been good in the past.

With that cleared up, that certainly removes the creepy factor from this whole deal, and I want to retract my statements directed at Nolan. I do think the patting on the back is excessive, but knowing what I know now, I do think Nolan's apology was appropriate.

p.s. Prok, you should be ashamed for manipulating the situation as much as you did.

You're like a parent who always gives one last chance

I hope you see how distinguishing between levels of privacy on different information, as you did on the other thread, now makes your job harder. Finally it's ANY information is it? Should of been like that in the first place, and you would of been made crystal clear by strong action at that time, rather than a bizarre informal warning and justification about how the information wasn't private enough! It seems like LL are making this up on the fly which is kind of off-putting when it's something as serious as privacy...

Hold up a minute. If Nolan didn't do it (I can't say I've seen him categorically say that he didn't in public, but I may have missed that) then that means that there's a 3rd party who has done the Googling and shared the information with another resident (Nolan). This is a further violation of the CS, specifically this:



If that's the case I would hope that Linden Lab would follow this up with Nolan to get his source, so that that person can be dealt with, as it appears that more than just one person is engaged in the erosion of privacy in Second Life.

This doesn't remove the creepy factor at all, if anything it highlights that others are working in the background doing this and sharing the information with others - that's creepier.

Prok. I wish I could feel more sympathy for you for THIS situation, but it is really hard to see where the truth lies here. Nolan has admitted what he did was wrong, and has made what I view as a sincere attempt to apologize.

But, I find it hard to accept all of you other 'background' info. You seem to view life through a pair of paranoia-colored glasses. You brought the situation to light before Nolan could, because you KNEW he was gonna blackmail you. You always seem to know EXACTLY what everyone else is thinking or planning.

It's this paranoid outlook that makes you hard to believe. You probably truly believe that you are constantly under attack. This kind of persecution complex tends to make folks like you misinterperet the simplest of remarks made to you as hostile.

Having been in the mental health scene ( as a sufferer of severe depression) for the last 25 years. I have been exposed to many folks suffering from all kinds of illnesses, including paranoia. I am being totally serious when I suggest to you that I think you have a real problem, and should seek some help. You display many of the same behaviors I have seen in RL. Get a proffesional opinion on this, because it CAN become worse. A full psychotic break would be no fun, I assure you.

Good luck.

That was my mistake, and I'll admit it. I made a call on my own, without all the background information, and with my own interpretation of the TOS/CS which was not fully clear in my mind. I'm still new at this, and unfortunately that means I'm going to probably screw up a bit here and there as I am confronted with new situations. I apologize for that.

But on the plus side, mistakes are the best teachers. Privacy issues and how to handle them are now much clearer in my mind. I have learned a lot from this situation, with a great deal of help and discussion with the other Lindens as well as the residents. So the best I can do at this point is move forward and try to do a better job from now on.

Once again, in the CS under "Disclosure:"
Disclosure


So...if peronal information isn't in the First Life page, it's private. Period. No grey area in my mind now about it.

Pathfinder, thank you for apologising for this, it's very much appreciated. I'm glad to see there will no longer be a grey area.

Yes, there is more than one person here who is violating the TOS and violating privacy by taking what is not on the profile, not linked to the profile, and bruiting it about in the game. It doesn't matter if you don't like me, it doesn't matter if you hate what I write, it doesn't matter even if you think I'm guilty of the same offenses, the fact is, as Pathfinder has made abundantly clear, you don't get to take my RL private information and bruit it about in the game period -- and using it as a means to pressure and harass me in the game adds to your "disclosure" offense a *further* offense of "verbal harassment" and "intimidation"



Geez, this is all crap. I could ask those players who know me personally in RL to step up and testify here about me, but why invade their privacy or my privacy further? I could try to get RL people to come on here, but most of them have never heard of Second Life and wouldn't bother. Do I need to go to Bellevue and get a mental health certificate to play this game to your satisfaction? Your tone is in itself menacing and trying to discredit a person by raising questions about their mental stability using your "credentials" -- the oldest trick in the book and one I can only stand up to as typical of the bullying attitude found in some older players who turn SL into a hazing ritual.

You just don't seem to get it. I have chat logs and messages that say things like this:

"I will expose you"

In a context that is menacing and mean, that is intended to threaten and intimidate.

I have messages that present to me flatly all my RL information, my name, etc. with a veiled-threat of "of course I won't publicize this information" but also with a clear-cut, non-ambigious threatening statement that says: "but I *will* go on publishing THIS information on the forums" and a *carrying out of that threat and a repeated offense of that threat's implementation.*

You want to split hairs all day about "intent" or something. But, geez, you don't have to be a paranoid to get that this is a menacing, intimidating, threatening atmosphere created when a player repeatedly stalks you in the game, repeatedly sends you messages, alternately tries to befriend you and then attack you, and sends you increasingly personal messages culminating finally in messages with all your RL info they've investigated not by a click on a profile. Trust me, Lindens or even any impartial player who isn't agitated by forum flames will "get it".

When you are sitting home alone at night and someone calls you and says "I know where you live" someone could come on the Second Life forums and say, "But that's not a threat. The guy didn't *say* he was going to come over. He didn't *say* that his knowledge of your residence is something he will now act on and come over. He didn't actually *come over* now did he? Now...wait a minute...are you sure you even have a phone call?"

And that's exactly what the SL forum harpies do each time someone tries to make a case like this, and are doing it to me now. We could all be in a room together watching a classic scary movie where the woman is sitting alone and the phone call comes with the heavy breathing "I know where you live..." And the SL forum harpies will sit in the audience munching their popcorn and say "You know, I dont think he actually knows where she lives." or "Do you think in fact she linked her phone number to her web page? She has no right to complain about a threatening phone call because she has her page linked." Or "He didn't actually say he's coming over...could he in fact come over? He can't come over. And he's a nice guy with a nice build, too...and just because he calls and speaks in a general way about his residential knowledge doesn't mean he's going to act on it...and honestly, why are you so bothered when people call you up and say they know where you live? You should be nicer to them. Get to know them. They could be your neighbours. Why, somebody knowing where you live is actually a *good* thing, come to think of it, because it could improve your sagging social life." etc. etc. -- and believe me, the jackals and junk-yard dogs on this forum will think of HUNDREDS of ways to get around the simple fact that a creep called up a lady and said "I know where you live" and in our cultural context, when that happens, everybody knows what scary movie that came from.

The context of a game, of messages within a game, of IMs, of forums, maybe interrupts the streaming flow of this picture for many. They think it gets ambiguous and the cultural cues and norms are divided up into incoherence like all those Derrida and Chomsky books they read nowadays. But trust me, this is from the same scene from the same scary movie.l When somebody "calls you up" in this game and says "I know where you live" i.e. I know your RL information, they imply a menace. They imply a threat that they might act, and they create a pressure on you to STFU -- the clarion call of the sim harpies on this forum.

Guess what. You don't get to do that under the TOS. This ought to be pretty clear now.

Honestly, I don't have a persecution complex, sheesh. I push the envelope. I push back against bullies. I don't take the gang warfare against me on this forum sitting down. I stand up and fight. So few do that. I push the limits to see what is possible in this game. That's not having a persecution complex. That's living life to its fullest. I suggest you do the same before you dispense crackpot psychiatric diagnoses over the Internet to strangers about whom you know nothing, which only discredits the field you claim to represent.

Thanks, Pathfinder! I think we're lucky to have you!

coco

Delusions of granduer? Do you really think so few push back? You are apparently too new to the forums to have seen the million other "push back" posts by the hundreds of other posters. You act like you are something new here...some warrior out to right injustices and expose the oh-so-important truths. With your mighty powers, you will unmask corruption and open the eyes of the less-fortunate. Get over yourself please.

I'm all for fighting against bullies and doing the right thing. But thus far all I've witnessed you do is spout your own doctrine and viciously attack anyone that disagrees. Some hero..

And there is a difference between pushing back and demeaning, dismissing and name calling. In my opinion, you attempt bullying more than almost anyone else on the forums. If someone doesn't agree with you, you attack them. You also lump large numbers of people into neat little catagories so that you can put them all down, or dismiss them all, in one fell swoop.

Again..self-examination would be a good first step.

I'd like to challenge you to find an example of "a vicious attack," especially one that is unprompted. There's no shortage of posts on there from me, go and find one, illustrate that it is "vicious" and "unprompted" and let's have a look. I'm all for self-examination!

Excuse me, but I'm not so new as to not see that a lot of people are intimidated by these forums. I know because so many people come up to me in the game and say "WTG Prok" and or simply humorously acknowledge that they see all the idiotism and self-serving grandiose posts here but they don't mix in. A few understand that taking on this role is a grand literary exercise.

And your claim that now I have "delusions of grandeur" just because I'm brave enough to stand up against a privileged core of long-time players and their apprenticed newbies is in fact one of those self-important grandiose posts. You'd like to think you can "level" me by serving up yet another crackpot psychiatric Internet diagnosis, but honestly, it only discredits you, and the field.

I am hardly new at this. And there are plenty of others who crusade against corruption, and do things like bleat endlessly about their shoe designs being copied in a game, and do 100 other things that indicate that they are part of a vocal entitelement culture. I'm hardly alone. But I don't seem to have much company when it comes to taking on the FIC. That I see. In fact most people don't even think there is a FIC or just laugh at it. I laugh at it too -- it is hyperbole and satire for the most part.

I do not attack people personally and call them names. If you find me calling them a name, perhaps if you scroll back 10 pages you mind find that they've called me names and pushed and goaded me so that I might then finally call them a name.

What you're doing now is calling me a name, you're saying I'm suffering from delusions of grandeur and a crusader complex. So be it. I'm not going to call you a name back.

This idea of the "neat little categories" and the "dismiss them all" may *feel that way* to you but it isn't *actually that way*. That's why I write long posts so that it can be very detailed and clear.

If I take on a pattern of oldbie behaviour -- giving away freebies but not really putting them in the public domain to really share them and allow innovation; placing artificial caps on services others might provide on land they happened to score; taking placements of Linden card dispensors on their properties while others don't get to have it; using their mentor status to obtain privileges in the game and get events grants ahead of others; using their free 4096 to leverage their position in the game -- that's just what it is, taking on a pattern of oldbie behaviour, privileges and attitudes. If the shoe fits, wear it. It's an important category of people to discuss in any game -- those who leverage their connections to game devs through their beta testing days and oldbie and mentor status to gain power and benefits over others. It's perfectly legitimate to set up a vocal dissenting protest center about this racket and I'm happy to man this center all by myself if no one else wants to join me. But in fact, there are those who think as I do and they find their own way to protest and I'll bet they do it 10 times more eloquently and effectively than I do! And God bless them! It's a job that needs doing!

But that isn't going to stop me from making my points in my way. If you see my name on a thread, scroll on if you don't like it.

My own take on it is that people are so unused to any kind of pushback to this status quo of game culture that they become absolutely startled and angry at anyone who questions it. They imagine quite lurid things about this person. They get immensely self-righteous and prickly about any imagined or real dents in their privilege system.

But who says a system where oldbies are subsidized and feted, and turned into Lindens even through a complex and privileged apprenticing system is a feature of a virtual world that we need to live in? It's not even much like RL because at least in RL, you have way more checks and balances against that kind of crap in the form of adversarial defense bars, judicial systems, contract law, and a truly free press?

Honestly, anyone who steps up to this plate here is going to be slammed. I am willing to do it. I don't claim to be the first or the last. But how many people have gotten threatening messages in their mailboxes and done nothing? How many people are living in fear in this game because somebody purloined some RL info on them and is holding it over their heads to blackmail, pressure, intimidate them in this game. I'd like to think that by jumping up and hollering and making a fool of myself over this issue now I might have carved out a little more space in this game for people to help themselves out of that game hell now that might be making them miserable, because now they have a crstyal-clear Linden Labs read-out on the TOS: if it is not on the profile, it's private and doesn't belong in the game.

So you deny calling people names in this thread..or in the Personal Information thread? You didn't call a whole group of people names in several of your posts? You didn't dismiss those that disagreed with you by calling them a name? Oookkkk...



I'm sure a few do..a very, very few...



Funny..you're the one with all the folks discrediting you...
And that wasn't a crackpot Internet diagnosis as you are so fond of saying, merely common sense.

Oh..but that's right..they are FIC!



I guess it's good to have a villian if you have this consuming desire to see yourself as a hero. nevermind that the villian in imaginary. You can still call upon this wickedness whenever you need to show your courage and blame something for all the evils of the world.



You certainly have called people names, personally and directed at individuals, and you've done so without any prompting. You are also fond of calling whole cross-sections of folks names, if even a few dare to fail to see your incredible intelligence and insight.

Do you read your own posts???



Um..that would be pointing out your behavior and actions. Where in there did I call you a name?



If you say so....



So..you don't like them doing things with their own stuff..? You don't like them deciding what they shoulf do with their own creations? You don't like their decisions that don't harm anyone and are their business and their right?

Geee...did someone promote you to Dark Overloard of the Universe? I must have missed that memo...



Thanks for the permission.



So you set about creating problems were none exsisted..in order to solve the problems you created....?? huh??



Can you actually name a specific incident..where anyone was harmed in the making of this program? What was the point when you realized the great injustices of Second Life..andf the evil workings of the FIC. What opened your eyes to the corruption? How has this FIC effected, in any way, your ability to enjoy Second Life and have fun here?
Where are the crimes and wicked deeds. cause I want in on them damnit!



Actually..anyone thinks that they are always right and everyone that disagrees is always wrong, and morons because of it, will no doubt get slammed. Especially when they feel the need go spout their opinion in a very demeaning and attacking and arrogant way. If you just posted your opinions in a logical and nice fashion, you might still get a little flak, but I'm sure it would be considerably less.

Not only do I read them, I write them, and edit them several times over sometimes.

Could you please come up with some *concrete examples * of any kind of "vicious unprompted attacks* that you can actually pin on me?

And if I come on and say "all right, you idiots, can't you see..." after 10 people have piled on with some pedantic deliberately literal reading of some Linden post, that hardly qualifies because "idiots" is completely mild stuff compared to the usual menu of "Fucktard...STFU" etc. to which people treat me.

Could you find the specific examples, and stop yammering just about your subjective impressions?

I quite understand you don't like my firm and intelligent but verbose tone. It often puts people off. But it's not a vicious attack, so I'd challenge you to find an unprompted, vicious attack, please.

Hell no..I'm not your secretary. They are all over. I despise work!



Pssstt...calling people idiots is name calling. Just to clarify.



I could and have found many of them. If you mean will I pour through threads copying and pasting..no I won't. Yammering is less work.



Ok..I found a bunch.

Prok called me an asswipe!