Taco Rubio suspended for 3 days according to source.

Again, you go to RL examples. This isn't RL..it's Sefcond Life! These aren't real bodies..they are Avatars. The genitals were created by another Second Life resident and are sold in vendors through the virtual world. There is a, excuse the pun, world of difference between RL and SL.




Well..that would be a pretty widely excepted negative comment. No are pics of panties and bits negative in your eyes? Do they make a negative statement about a person? I guess, in my opinion, panties are fine, as are av genitals. I don't view them in a negative light.




Ah yes, the old stand by "Rape!!" argument. No one was raped in this case, and it's not RL either, so good luck with this one..



Still not getting how bigotry is involved..??

Hey, that's what everyone wants to know

The fact remains that Taco did not ask for consent before taking and posting his pictures. It might be, perhaps, a bit unfair to Taco to dump all this on him, but women have long borne being objectified, and to post some pictures of genitals -- no matter how pixelated they are, regardless of ownership and who made them -- and not even think to ask, or consider the feelings and positions of his subjects (and defending that he did not HAVE to ask) makes him somewhat thoughtless to say the least. It's kind of like rubbing salt into an old, old wound, just like this whole thread.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity....do any of you think you can change each other's opinions? I have been stupid enough to watch everyone bang their heads together through dozens of pages of arguement. I'm not going to take sides, I have seen very valid points presented on both sides. I think it might be time to give it a rest...even in a community like SL, there is a certain degree of anonymity that encourages people to be almost entirely intractable. Just a thought

As I said before, this is where commen sense, maturity and at least a smidgeon of respect for your fellow residents comes in. I've never seen a law specifically stating that I can't blow snot into a stranger's coffee, and yet somehow, I know not to do this. We aren't children (ideally). We shouldn't have to rely on the Lindens telling us how to treat other people decently and offer them the same respect we would hope for ourselves.

I'm sure we can take this to extremes in several different directions, as we saw done in the other thread, but I don't see it serving any purpose. Adults, as we've all sworn we are, should know what a reasonable expectation of privacy and sensativity are. Sneaking a shot of someone's genitals from beneath their skirt violates a reasonable expection of privacy, while taking a shot of something clearly exposed to anyone's view does not. If it comes to the point where LL has to sit us down and slap our hands and explain to us how to tell the difference, then what does that say about us as people.. the people behind the avatars?

I find it very difficult to believe that we've all survived to at least the age of 18 without even having a clue about what is private and what isn't. (Or at least survived without several broken noses and missing teeth.) I don't think it's unreasonable or overly-sensative to expect we bring that same wisdom with us into an online community, because it's that wisdom that allows people to live together without killing each other.

I couldn't disagree with you more, Emma, and you're sick for even thinking that way.

I understand some people are concerned about panty shots, and they have great points. I personally am less conserned about panty shots as naked gentials since, while working on clothing I will occasionally forget to click on panties. I don't consider my oversight to be implied consent.

For everybody saying "Where do you draw the line with respect to pornography...a knee?, an elbow?" Remember that the Lindens CURRENTLY and SUCESSFULLY restrict the content of PG sims. Despite dozens if not hundreds of hypothetical gray areas with regard to profanity and pornography, the Lindens seem to be able to keep the PG areas clean without opressing the masses, and without excessive stress on the Linden workforce.

It would be an interesting validation of your arguements if you could explain why restricting what's up my skirt to my consent is a disaster, but restricting the content of a PG sim is acceptable. How does the restriction of mature content when it comes to consent/non consent apply to the restriction of mature content in mature/PG sims in reference to all the usual arguements I have heard so far:

"you shouldn't get offended by pixels"
"it would flood the Lindens with frivolous abuse complaints"
"it squashes creativity"
"where do you draw the line?"
"how could anybody decide what is mature content and what is not?"
"It doesn't bother me, therefore it shouldn't bother you"
"it is just a game"

any thoughts?

-aimee

Agreed Jauni. I was comparing the 2 under the strictest and most base sense of language and image as representation of thought within a representative media.



Again, I agree. I think that abstracting this debate into grounds for precedent takes attention of the base nature of the act itself.



Just as SL does not have the limitations of the embodied, SL HAS more limitations of the embodied. It is very easy to assume that your actions in SL will not affect someone IRL. That is one of the biggest limitations SL currently has within its userbase: Tolerance for bigotry because we are all "sitting behind a computer"



Interesting point. I am still waiting to see LL's distinction between an overtly sexist build and a overtly racist build to see which way the dollar swings. $$$ sigh



Or comprimising the "freedoms" of one individual to uphold certain social standards of morality?

I apologize....common sense got the best of me.....

Aimee, I don't agree that they have been phenomenally successful at restricting the content of PG areas. I think that the community, overall, however, has been phenomenally good at "not really getting too uptight" when someoene teleports to the welcome area naked, by accident, or changes their clothes but forgets that they're in public, or doesn't wear underwear. People see these things, all the time, but the "offenders" seldom get reported, because it's just not that big a deal. This whole scenario, however, begged the question: If it's not that big a deal, what if your avatar was shown? What if they were captured visually in the most unflattering, yet still accurate, light, going about their tasks in public areas of the grid. And, apparently, when people point out exactly what they can see about others' avs, in permanent, mounted, gallery form, it does become a problem.

Absolutely NOT. I mentioned at around page 33 of the HUGE thread that nobody is going to change their position on this topic. Right now my goal is to make my point clear to undecided newcomers and to build a strong case for an eventual change/clarification of the CS. When that happens, we can thank Taco

-aimee

Thanks for distinguishing RL and SL for me. The disconnect between RL and SL can be gapped pretty easily though if I IM'd someone with "eff you (insert racist label)". Why is that if there is no connection between SL and RL?



Pics of panties are not negative in my eyes. Evoking a RL practice in which RL woman are violated and objectified is negative. Evoking a RL practice in which RL woman are violated and objectified and invovling other players WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT is disgusting. I would like a choice of what type of exhibit I was portrayed in, especially if I didnt agree with the nature of the exhibit to begin with.




The old stand by "Rape!!" argument works for a reason. It blatantly shows how silly the "this will set a precedent in which anarchy will rule due to nobody knowing who is telling the truth" argument.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, why have you "been stupid enough to watch everyone bang their heads together through dozens of pages of arguement" when at the same time you "have seen very valid points presented on both sides"?

Yay! I am relieved, Aimee actually I kinda stopped REALLY reading that thread around page 20....

Well you know how on the highway, when there's a crash, even if it doesn't actually interfere with the traffic flow, traffic seems to slow down? That's called rubbernecking....everyone seems to have at least a little morbid curiosity. This entire arguement is like one monstrous car crash to me...each post reminiscent of the squealing of tires and crash of shattering glass.

I hereby proclaim that it is evident that at creation you created the Avatar with sliders and it is not actually you..nor is it a valid image of you and virtually impossible to even re-create an exact image of you. You are a Puppet Master controlling movements of an Avatar, the only representation of you is "Words" that you express in chat, therefore in conclusion the Avatar itself along with the genitals were created by the creator of the genitals a work of art, and you the creator of the Avatar also a work of Art. The representation that the Avatar is actually you is impossible. It was a work of Art on display created by a human behind a keyboard and not a real photo of oneself. Therefore the claim of Sexual Harassment is invalid.

Perfect analogy I keep telling myself I'm done with it, but I keep checking back to see if any bodies have been pulled out of the wreckage.

Good answer

Such is the burden of being human, Jon

Thanks ever-so-much for that little sermon, Blake, but... who are you to proclaim this again?

I hereby proclaim you're full of hot air.

LOL I know! This is why I want the Linden's to just post and get this over with. Even if they tell me that Taco is right and that I should take a chill pill it would be better than this forum hell.

-aimee

Thanks for this post, Lo. Some people seem to place so much stock in the disconnect between RL and SL that they can't understand that offensive representation has the ability to truly offend.

*HUGS*

I know this is probably too much to hope for, could anyone tell me without a lecture if they take issue with me taking the pictures? Or even looking? Is it the posting without permission that's the crux of the matter? I've decided that even though it seems nuts to me to even care about this, enough people do that i should try to figure out 'where' i crossed a line.

/shiver I nearly felt a poll coming on, but it passed.

Taco, the issue of consent is probably the most persuasive argument against your actions. Other than that, I find it hard to accept bigotry, harassment, and sexism as reasonable arguments against you.

You just tell me where your next donation box will be placed and I will happily contribute to the next TACO-EXTRAVAGANZA.

I can understand LL's response, and I support them in their effort to make SL an enjoyable and comfortable place for as many as possible. It appears that Taco now knows how to handle any further potentially controversial projects he may engage in.

Good to hear all is well for you TACO. Interesting work! Please keep it up!

Champie