Taco Rubio suspended for 3 days according to source.

haha as a newbie to SL all this hubbub is quite funny. the idea of avatar upskirts is also hillarious. Getting upset over pics of ur digi-nickers also seems a little .... nutty, but hey - I guess im not that 'into' it yet.

Debate that you are disrespecting Avatars all you want. What you are really doing is concurrently:

1. Cloning RL paradigms of sexism and objectification. This type of behaivor is not allowed with racist "exhibits", even though there are only "pixel races" within SL.

2. Assuming that there is a total disconnect between real people and the media that they use for self-expression and communication. If I called you on the telephone and called you a douchebag, then by your own logic I could argue that I was calling your "telphone persona" a douchebag. It just doesn't hold water, no matter how controversial you want to be.

I did not yell out, "I'm on this side". I yelled, "If you are ignorant and egotistical enough to push YOUR interpretation of 'art' into a public space without consent and with a strong dose of sexism, then you personally disgust me".

Thanks for noticing that my tone does include yelling though.

oh man, that aint gonna hold water...

this is 'second life' - an alternative fantasy online virtual existance. not a simple means of communication. You don't use your real name here.

See my post above..maybe that will shead a little light on the other side of the coin.

Super. "debate what you want, but HERE is what you are doing". Hell of a debate.

Also, I've got no problem if I 'personally disgust' anyone; everyone views people as they wish. Have a nice day.

Well..I'm not sure if I'm included in your "insane Rhetoric" blanket, but I'll reply anyway, being a glutton for punishment.



How are they the same? One you can avoid seeing or dealing with, the other is being constatnly sent to you. You can choose, as with any media, to go look at the pics or not. And how are pictures that are posted on a wall in a mature area, of panties and pixelated bits in anyway sexually harrassing? Do they reach off the wall and grab boobs? Do they make suggestive statements and propositions? Do they communicate anything other than an image of anything other than AVs, that you can see at anytime in SL, in any public or private area?



Umm..how is there no difference? One is verbal abuse, the other is a picture of pixels. The picture itself communicates a neutral message that the viewer interrpets however they choose. Verbal abuse is given without a choice. Going and viewing the pics is a choice and contains no demeaning words or phrases and in fact is more complimentory, in a bit of a twisted way, than it is abusive.



well..typing actually communicates thoughts, be they good or bad, and abuse would usually mean hateful, mean or angry thoughts. Pic of pixels, particularly the upskirt shots didn't really portray anything negative, unless you hate panties or user-made bits.



One could say, continue blurring the lines of seperation between RL and SL, and censoring where our cameras can go and what are snapshots can capture, and you will open up alot of room for vengence abuse reports and conflict. "Billy took pics that showed my panties! That means he harassed me!"

Where is the line? Where is the clarification? What form does the consent take? What is ok to capture in a snapshot and what isn't? What snapshots compose sexual harassment, or harassment in general, and which don't?

there is a huge distinction between language and image. if this was RL, i would attempt to broach that subject. i personally will concede this analogy, because i've decided this is not a terrain worth fighting for. our brain power can be better served in the off topics forum where we determine the fate of the free world (and the merits of pecan pie).

1> SL will not "take over the world." so we are not deciding the future here. internet technology, like all technology, provides a material support for our social structure, but i doubt it would ever take primacy of the embodied life world.

2> SL does not have the limitations of the embodied - we have one body, making the contestation of the physical space and its world a necessity. if "SL" becomes to restricted by commercial or conservative interests it's just a matter of moving play to a new virtual space, in the form of a new grid or a new game, or no game

3> LL's decisions will be based predominantly on econimic viability. that will necessarily require definitions in favour of those that sustatain this game and economy. people who are living escapist "second lives." similarly, many of those that market their crafts to said people will also be compelled to favour these definitions for their own survival. these definitions will fail in broader terms outside of those the "community" of game players.

4> regardless of right or wrong doing, LL can, will, and probably should intervene and stop any activity that compromises the enjoyment of other players. This will often be compromising the freedoms of one individual to appease the masses or $$$ wielding customers.

Well said Blake.

Let me ask..were you actually born into SL or did you move sliders and create an image? Is it actually you or is it a creation of Art?

I never claimed to have any insight Linden TOS interpretation. However, if you need such a strict outline of a moral conduct, I do feel sorry for the Lindens.

I apologize if I singled your thread out as an attack. That is not too cool.

BUT, I do see a problem with everyone bringing issues like privacy into metaverse rhetoric when the true problem here is that some members of the SL community find it necessary to be bigots.

That is the issue, and I personally find that threads such as the one you started are harmful when they overshadow the marginalization of REAL WOMEN.

I will! Thank you

Each brush stroke on a canvas is unique, so is each avatar in world.

Starring in the pics should also be a choice. You may find people admiring your genitals complimentary, but there are plenty who wouldn't, and don't. Why not simply give them the choice?

There are enough people in SL more than happy to show you their genitals without having to sneak around to peek at it. Granted, it's not as good masturbation material for the voyeur and naughty-little-boy types, but sometimes sacrifices should be made in regards to showing respect to fellow human beings.

So what do you do besides communicate and express yourself in SL?

Great, I meant it!

I just asked for a very specific clarification on the issue from the Lindens to finally get this over with. If nothing else, a potential "artist" should know what kind of action (if any at all) the Lindens will take if they decide to immitate Taco.

It could take hours or weeks to hear back, but I will let you all know when I do. If we don't like the answer then we can request a change in policy like any other feature request through SL. But this arguement has got to end SOMEDAY.

-aimee

I had asked for the same thing Aimee, so thanks for doing that. I have another project I want to do on hold until I find out what the Lindens think.

I agree Jon! But where is the rules pertaining to this? If one is going to be punished for capturing panty pics without consent, shouldn't all be punished for it? Were are the boundries? If it is a matter of taco actually posting those pics, should all AV pics that are hung on virtual walls or shown to friends have to be consented first? What if i don't like folks admiring my nose? (I'm very insecure about my nose!)

Awesome argument. I guess that RL upskirt pictures aren't offensive or objectifying either, by following this train of thought.




So what if I held up an image of the statement, "David Valentino is a douchebag?" Or what if I held up an image of you next to a douchebag? Where do you draw the line? The point is that there are social norms of what is insulting behaivor. Obfuscating these social norms does not make them disappear. (BTW, I don't think you are a douchebag, just trying to make a point with a bit of humor).



Again arguments like this don't hold water. One could say that accusations of rape allow for false allegations. And that is true. They do. However, should we not allow rape victims to report rapes?

Sorry, I have to take a stance here, no matter how much I am flamed for it. All of this conjecture and rhetoric is more damaging then "blurring the lines" of SL. Other forms of bigotry are not allowed in SL. This one just happens to be cleverly disguised as "art".

Huh? How is Taco a bigot. man..this is getting a bit carried away. If I took pics of seagulls, does that make me a bigot towards seagulls? Does that mean that all nude photography is just a release for a bigots hatred?

And how on earth or the heavens does pics of pixelated panties and bits marginalize real women? Or even SL female avatars. You can see panties and bits all over SL! Go to a mature area mall. Go to a skin vendor, or a panty maker or a genitalia seller. These aren't things to be ashamed of or to be looked down upon!

I can't help but think that in your view of things, any female av that wears panties or bits must hate themselves...

I hereby proclaim that it is evident that at creation you created the Avatar with sliders and it is not actually you..nor is it a valid image of you and virtually impossible to even re-create an exact image of you. You are a Puppet Master controlling movements of an Avatar, the only representation of you is "Words" that you express in chat, therefore in conclusion the Avatar itself along with the genitals were created by the creator of the genitals a work of art, and you the creator of the Avatar also a work of Art. The representation that the Avatar is actually you is impossible. It was a work of Art on display created by a human behind a keyboard and not a real photo of oneself. Therefore the claim of Sexual Harassment is invalid.

Hey panda,

Apology accepted, and gladly so. Even if we disagree, I still respect your opinions. I disagree that this is not about privacy, but, let's face it:

-This issue, even if about the marginilization of real people, is not necessarily about the marginilization of real women. I think reasonably confident in saying that at least some of these upskirt images were of female avatars being operated by RL male users. Oh, boy, how then are we to apply ideas of sexual objectification to people who are not even (in real life) the same sex as the avatar they portray? Does a man have as much right as a woman to "claim foul", when his female av is objectified and maginilized as a female? Does a RL female have similiar rights to not be objectified in SL as in RL, when she can change her apparent sex at will?

-I think that privacy rules do apply, very much so, because clearly an individual, or multiple ones, were able to have their non-consensual photos removed from a display. Whether this was done voluntarily by Taco, or involuntarily, by a Linden, the issue remains the same, if the Lindens support the "offended". They are considered to have some sort of rights, or privacy, to images of their avatar that they did not themselves take. Those rights might be limited to "All instances of the photo should be removed", or "It simply shouldn't be posted publicly", or "It shouldn't be shared with other users", or "It may not be reproduced anywhere without the avatar's permission, even on a 3rd-party website." Would this whole mess have gone differently if Taco had posted these photos in a Yahoo photo gallery, and just let word-of-mouth spread about them?

We still don't know. There's still a vacuum with regards to this question, and others like it.

So I ask for clarification. In a virtual world where many people act in considerate and polite ways, and some do not, where are the limits of my privacy?

Someday.....maybe....if we all pray hard enough

It has nothing to do with nude photography, David. It is an emulation of RL behaivor that is biggoted. This emulation was imposed upon players of a video game. The objectification of women is in itself insulting to some, but to put an Avatar (which some people do create with emotion and representation of themselves) up on display within a socially recognized form of pornography WITHOUT consent is just disgusting.

....shyte happens....