Do you believe in God?

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5059420^2,00.html

Another Miracle on Ebay !!!! Miracle for Sale

Wow, paint exposed to moisture runs. It's a MIRACLE! *cough*

I like the following quotes:

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." Voltaire

"I think God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability, and in doing so, somewhat overestimated His own ability." Oscar Wilde

"In Heaven all the interesting people are missing." Nietzsche

In a book by Greg Bear, I recently read the following passage: "Of all the illusions of childhood, the one he hated to lose most was this: that humans work according to unspoken but noble goals, that they followed an intrinsic path toward justice, that they would resist error and move toward self-understanding."

There may be no physical, measurable miracles. But when a human fulfills that illusion and makes it just a little real, for a moment, that's a miracle.

The universe is impossibly large and complex, really beyond human comprehension, although I love people who try. A hundred billion stars in a galaxy, a million galaxies in a supercluster, and a trillion or more observable superclusters, all remnants of a violent genesis that seems to be "accidently on purpose" in many ways.

Anyone claiming to know the "mind" or character of the creator is naive. If some kind of directed entity was responsible for all this, its concepts of life, love, good, evil, sin and guilt, even existence, are so far beyond ours as to be incomprehensible.

On the other hand, Fermi's famous dictum, "Where are they?" indicates a small possibility that we are alone in all this vastness, and self-awareness on our level is a rare and precious thing. If so, then if wouldn't surprise me if such an entity tried to communicate with us.

lol, just some thoughts.

I've got some pictures of UFOs at home that you might be interested in. They are a little blurry too , but I believe they are legit.

OMG! Flying elephants are real!! It's a miracle!

We need to talk real estate Blake.... I have the greatest opportunity for you.... I can get you in on the ground floor! Really!

Okay, let's take their arguments one by one...



We are all human beings living in a complex universe of which our knowledge is severely limited. We all share a desire for answers to certain fundamental questions... how did we get here? why are we here? what happens when we die? I find it wholly unremarkable that human beings all arrive at a similar "easiest" explanation.



This argument is basically "If it's too complex for us to easily understand, it must be magic" It's an intellectual cop out. What's wrong with simply admitting that we don't know all the answers? Why immediately jump to the most fantastical explanation? It's illogical and in my opinion, rather simple minded. It's kind of an insult to the beautiful complexity of the universe to explain it all away by suggesting some all powerful creator entity waved it's magic wand, and "poof." You can no more deduce the existance of god from the complexity of the universe than you can deduce that storks deliver babies on the basis of never having seen one born.



No, it's not... and it does nothing to prove the existance of god. Science doesn't attribute creation to chance, but to physical laws of cause and effect which are observable and testable. As new observations are made, new theories are put forth. The theories evolve and change as our understanding grows. Science accepts that it doesn't know all the answers. It seeks them through the scientific method. It never presumes knowledge on the basis of having a lack of knowledge. Science doesn't say "We're not sure yet how this happened, therefore it must have been the work of a magical being beyond our comprehension."



Humans are at a disadvantage as predators unless they work together. Our strength is in our ability to cooperate. Our inherent sense of right and wrong boils down to simple common sense. The societal structures of all living things reflect their evolutionary strengths and disadvantages. Do people truly feel that without a God we'd all just be hitting each other over the heads with rocks? Once again they go with the most simple minded explanation possible.



This is just plain old circular logic. You can't use something unproven as proof of itself.
You may want to have a look at the circular logic faq: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~invar/circular.html



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Well... if the universe didn't have the "accidentally on purpose" configuration that it does, then we'd never have existed to find it curious in the first place. I guess this is called the 'Anthropic Principle', though I've never quite understood the differences between the Strong and Weak versions of it.

I've never liked the argument that the creator and his 'great plan' are beyond human comprehension. It seems more of a directive to "shut up, do as you're told, and don't ask questions" from the church. Besides, at least in the Christian religion, we were all created in His image... and I certainly don't think He's got arms and legs and the like, so I don't think they imply a physical resemblance.

Hehe, that brings to mind a thought I had not too long ago. A popular theme in science fiction is that of the mysterious 'precursor race', the intelligent species that predates all other intelligent species in the universe, or perhaps even created all the rest, for whatever reason. Combine that concept with our apparent loneliness in the universe, and it makes one wonder... maybe we are the mysterious precursor race.

I'm equal to God! Now hurry up and get worshiping me, dammit. I don't have all day here!

Anyone can argue about how the Universe came to be. Anyone can argue weather Miracles exist. Go to this website..email these people and ask if you can see copies of medical records proving what they say is true. Though Im not familar with what all laws are regarding medical record disclosure, testimonies, real names and emails are present..do the research.

www.citytakers.com/testimonies_of_miracles.htm

http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/privstat.htm
Still waiting on the pop.

I've seen the light!

I do believe in miracles thanks to Neehai!

The miracle of Viagra! /120/66/29814/1.html

- T -

No, you do the research. The burden of proof lies with those making the fantastical claims, not with those that are rightfully skeptical. There's nothing remotely surprising about claims of miracles on a religious website. Even if someone healed in a way that medical science has a hard time explaining, that only means there's no simple explanation. It does not by virtue of being difficult to explain prove god. Find some documentation of "miracles" written by non-religious people without an agenda of justifying their belief.

You have answered your own question...even if someone healed in a way that medical science has a hard time explaining..that only means there's no simple explanation. You have debunked both Theories.

But now the question would be...

Why go through all the trouble of showing your power at healing, when supposedly you had the power to prevent the disease to start with?

It is not nice to play with peoples lives like that. A little sadistic maybe?

- T -

I've debunked neither theory. I've simply pointed out that something difficult to explain does not prove the existance of god just by virtue of being difficult to explain. Again, "I don't know how this happened, therefore it must be magic" is a simple minded leap in logic with no rational foundation or justification.

That's assuming that one knows the future.

Except that God, as a supposedly omniscient being.... DOES supposedly know the future.

According to some Christian beliefs, a human is only an instrument of faith to empower the act of the miracle. One can argue weather the miracle was a combination of Faith and a God or, faith alone, or neither.

I don't think it would have been necessary to even know the future.

All he/she had to do during creation...

"Hmmm.... I don't think I will invent cancer today. Poor bastards, that would cause even more suffering than I have already programmed for them for the next three million years."

And then, cancer healing would not be necessary...

- T -