Do you believe in God?

I agree. I like the "weak" version of the anthropic principle better.



I guess when you try to define entities capable of Creation, you quickly leave all human religious concepts far behind. "Someone who looks or behaves like us" had got to be a metaphor for mere mortals like you and me. Maybe a parable? But you're right, a lot of religions tell people to shut up at this point, and that's just plain wrong.



Sure, I've heard that idea. It goes back to idea that precursor race, creator race, God, One Spirit, That-Which-Animates-Us-All, whatever, it's semantics and preference to try to distinguish between the concept of God and beings advanced enough to create something like the universe. God a much too simplistic concept to understand God with, but it doesn't mean humans won't come up with a better concept someday. I think it was Arthur Clarke, wasn't it, who made a point about superior science and technology being indistinguishable from religion and magic to less knowledgeable people, if the sci-tech was advanced enough.

"superior science and technology being indistinguishable from religion and magic to less knowledgeable people, if the sci-tech was advanced enough"

A good example of this is the conquest of Mexico.

One of the reasons Spain was able to conquer Mexico with 600 men and 20 horses, was that many indigenous people held the belief that Hernan Cortez, with his light skin and light hair, was the second coming of the God Quetzalcoatl. Spanish technology, such as cannons, muskets and even their horses, which the Aztecs had never seen before, served to reinforce the point.

If it hadn't been for the profecy of the return of Quetzalcoatl and the blind faith of the Aztecs in their Gods, chances are the Cortez would have been defeated in battle.

- T -

If you read the bible, the time for miracles has passed.

The act of performing miracles was directly related to a laying on of hands by the Apostles. People could not perform miracles without this happening. (Acts 8:14-18; 19:5-6)

Miracles actually served a finite purpose and would stop once Jesus Christ and the doctrine of God was delivered. (That happened a while back. hehe)

Also, I don't want this to shock anyone who thought otherwise, but the apostles are long dead and not laying hands on people anymore. As such, there are no miracles.

The time for miracles has passed. Read Mark and Hebrews for more information.

Also 1 Corinthians 13 will give you some insight that miracles are gone and we should now live by faith, hope and charity.

That's actually the doctrine of dispensation, Neehai. It is the predominant view of mainline, Calvinistic denominations. Many other denominations do not agree with this premise.

Regarding God and the future, protestant Christian theology generally recognizes that God is not bound by time. A helpful metaphor is to consider the view of the planet earth from the space shuttle. From 200 miles up, you can clearly see the curvature of the earth, the continents, the oceans, etc. From the ground, the earth appears flat and visibility is limited to an approx. radius of 100 miles, max (depending on location). That's akin to God's view of time. He "stands" above it, and is not bound by it, enabling him to see beginning-to-end. Thus, our earth-bound notion of time would not apply to the God of Christianity.

If there is no God, tell me how the universe, against all odds, is so remarkably hospitable to life...

Tell us why it shouldn't be?

If it wasn't, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If there are no giant invisible tango dancing zebras on the Rings of saturn, tell me how, against all odds, Saturn has rings. The god answer for any question we aren't yet able to adequately answer is about as meaningful as answering "because" to every question. You can derive no meanigful answers from lack of knowledge. If the equation is x + y = z, and we do not know the values of x and y, we cannot decude from it that z=god. Unless the word god is latin for "how the hell should I know?"

You call -454F remarkably hospitable?

God. Who will ever know? In my opinion its all just a crock, made up for some kind of control. But then again, it's a good thing to some people. They live their lives believing theres something more for them beyond life. I would like to belive in a God, it would be nice to think of people that have come and gone in this life as being somewhere happy and looking down on you..but thats just too far fetched for me to ever believe in. What about that annoying cock roach you squished under your shoe earlier? Did he go to heaven? lmfao Theres just too much thats unexplained and too much that we cant comprehend. Please no one take offense, its just my opinion

Originally Posted by Apex nightshade
If there is no God, tell me how the universe, against all odds, is so remarkably hospitable to life...

Dont you mean our planet? I dont think they have yet found life elsewhere or anywhere that could harbor any kind of life that we are familiar with...

I can't believe people are still trying to "prove" the existence or non-existence of God in this thread. It can't be proven. Either you have a gut intuition that says one thing or the other, or you don't. It's really that simple...

Even on planet earth which is theoretically the only one that supports human life, life is a dangerous affair!

Scratch off the 70% percent of the planet that is covered with water.
Scratch off all other inhospitable terrain.

So how much of the earth is really friendly to humans?

And even then, in the little that is left, we have to contend with so many natural disasters! Hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes...

So how did you figure God created a universe hospitable to life? I could care less about it being hospitable to bacteria and roaches. We are talking about human life!

- T -

Also according to some Christian belief..Lucifer (Satan) rules the Earth until the return of Christ. I believe the story goes something like..There was a great War in Heaven..one of Gods Angels Lucifer rose up agaisn't God..God cast him down to Earth. Assuming this story..one may think that Lucifer was Jealous of God's creations and wanted to take over..possibly challenging him, that man would do his deeds instead of God's..hense Eve tempting Adam to bite the Apple..kinda like a Chess Match on Earth.

Hmmm that's coming up soon isn't it ??? *googles nostradamos*

OH by the way Leck..I heard the pop on the General Thread.

Now we are talking! Satan rules the earth, we see and hear of his work on a daily basis.

But, I think he/she is here to stay. Christ was here 2004 years ago and did not do anything about the problem.

And exactly why would an all-loving, all-caring, all-powerful God would allow Satan to rule the planet?

Is it because he wants to, or because he can't do anything about it? Either way, we are screwed.

- T -

For a moment last Saturday, during the Forums Gangbang, I thought that was exactly what was happening!

Remember that face that was coming down from the heavens and enveloped all of us in its majesty?

- T -

LOL
That would have been the decension of the anti-cristiano no?

I was in the process of finishing the scenario Tito..look at the previous post of above about the story.

sounded more like a *whiff* to me

I would pose a question..If assuming all this was real.."Who do you think the Anti-Christ will be in this present day?" Of course most would say Bush. LOL!

He, its been fun. I am not passionate about religion, and absolutely respect everyone's right to believe in whatever their religion may be. Religion is purely a matter of faith, so there is really no way to argue against it.

Like everyone else, I'll find out the truth either way the day I go up in smoke.

- T -

Nope, he would be more insidious than that...Bush would just be another punk pushing the dark dude's whims around. Look higher up on the food chain, someone with even more money and power that no one even knows anything about...

"The greatest lie the devil ever convinced man of, is that he doesn't exist" - I read this or saw it on a cartoon or cereal box or somesuch...

EDIT: Whoops you meant the anti-christ! Then it would have to be Ashton Kutcher, Dakota Fanning, or Tony Robbins...or maybe Paris Hilton...