Religeous Two Week Fire Gap

Oh dear. Maybe I shouldn't have gone to such trouble in my previous post.

coco

I think that shows he wasn't actually interested in your answer. He wanted you to say it's EEEEEVVVIILL so he could have a go at us. Hmm. Maybe if he wasn't interested he shouldn't have asked. I thought your post took a lot of guts. I could tell it was what you really think inside.

Wrong thread.

If you want to know what I'm talking about, seehere.

I didn't take pot-shots at you, Jsecure. I was explaining my position and *why* I'm in the position I'm in - nothing more.

That's right you didn't, but it seemed a lot like you were angling to justify doing so, based on the fact some Christians somewhere in the world oppose gay marriage.

Thank you for the honest answer, Coco. It sounds like you've indeed spent some time thinking about it.. carefully. I'm sorry to hear that you lost a friend over it, but I can understand her utter frustration and anger. When someone you know says they are against gay marriage, they are (in my eyes and probably your friends) dismissing your relationship as something less than thier own - as if you're just playing house and it means nothing.

I wish your friend had a little thicker skin and had not disconnected your friendship.

Nice try Jsecure, but not at all true. Part of me does feel that if you remain silent on the issue and don't for an educated opinion, you are part of the larger 'problem' - that's where that comment came from. The other part of me must remind myself that sometimes people just need a different perspective on issues to understand them.

I was glad that Coco offered up her experiences and thoughts - its not an easy thing to share sensitive material like that with people you barely know.

Now I think you're just making things up.

Fact is, I cannot, at this time, marry whomever I want. In the U.S. most of people who are spearheading the anti-gay marriage movement are Christians. There are very few tree-huggers who are in that movement, btw.

Thanks, Juro! I wished that, too. But then I thought, maybe it was a greater gift she gave me.

coco

The whole deal of gay marriage seems a bit silly.

As for civil unions, which even some of the most loony right wingers support, this seems pretty much required. I have gay friends who are in perfectly happy and long term relationships... They're not crazy deviants. And to me it seems like they should have all of the legal rights that go along with marriage in our society.

But when people start crying about needing it to be called "marriage", then I start to think they're just trying to complain about something. I mean, seriously... Marriage is a religious union. If a religion says that you can't get married based on their rules, it seems like you shouldn't even want to be part of that religion. Obviously, their God thinks you're doing bad stuff, so you should probably either change your lifestyle or find another God.

And then, on the same token, I don't really see why people would CARE about calling it marriage. I mean, if I'm married, and some gay couple gets married, it doesn't change anything for me. It doesn't somehow denigrate my own relationship.

I think, again, that the extremes on both sides of the spectrum are just making up crap to fight about.

That was a great post. Thanks for sharing it in a vunerable setting.

It is interesting to note how pain and disgust are often the primary forces that drive people to change.

Your story makes me feel hope that several past good friends I have shunned might actually change. In real life, I am unusually accepting of the conceits of other people, even "negative" ones. This is because I usually understand from a first person point of view how people can think and justify absurd or extreme things. I've run through a gamut of personalities and beliefs, and in my distant past was even a hardcore Born-Again Christian (complete with WWJD bracelet and summer bible study camps). The effect of my RL (not necessarily nice, but understanding- empathy, not sympathy-) nature sometimes makes certain kinds of people feel justified for being the way they are and encourages them to make their mistakes more vehemently, even self-righteously. I've ended up pushing those kinds of people away, often with the feeling that I was doing what was best but also with a deep feeling of disappointment in them and regret. Your story makes me think that I really did do what was best for them and myself and that maybe there is hope for those people. If you found a lesson in the loss of a friend, maybe they would too.

lol How conceited of me, I know, but that's the way your story made me feel. :hrug::

Right.


But Pikachu sure as hell was!

And he's also Pokemon #25!

Yay, I say! Yay for the little yellow lightning-mouse!

Pika, Pika, Pika!

http://home.bluegrass.net/~megsmath/joeyart/pikachu.JPG

I would use scripture to support my opinions. I wouldn't suggest they are idiots, or believe in the tooth fairy. I wouldn't make jokes about them. An argument can never be won by ridiculing an opponent. What is so hard with talking about ideas instead talking about of people with whom you disagree?

Go ahead, then. Go and do it. See how accepting they are of your calm dissension.

Seriously. If you're really so sure, go ahead and do it.



But, um, Kevn? Better wear your Kevlar, hon.

I think the solution would be to give gays access to a civil union that is, from a legal perspective, exactly the same as anything that a heterosexual couple has.

A good way to do this, would be for the government to simply recognize ONLY civil unions, with the understanding that any kind of marriage is simply a type of civil union.

It would be much easier to just let gays marry - end of story, everyone happy.

Well, the problem that some people have, is that marriage is usually considered a religious institution.

I don't really see the problem with simply calling everything a civil union, and having the government deal with that... Then, if people want to be "married" in some religion, then they can go about doing that. Hell, if there's some religion that marries gay couples, then even they could get married.

I think we're pretty much on the same page here, only you're saying to call everything marriage, and I'm saying to call everything civil unions.

You really know how to pull at my heart strings.

I used to op an IRC channel that discussed Scripture along with many other topics(politics etc) that were hot. Discussions involved Catholics and their beliefs. People learned to stick to the points at hand, or they were devoiced. Religions from all over the world were represented. We didn't tolerate personal attacks or riducule of any kind. As adults, we didn't have many problems.

Is so hard because the people with whom they disagree choose to be rational only through affectations.

ello ello ello
wots goin on ere, then ?

I thought this thread wouldn't go anywhere much - then I come back and find all this.
It's too much to read. I feel deprived. Gulp

I would never suggest that someone is an idiot simply because they believe in something I didn't, say ghosts, leprechauns, or god(s). I would however suggest that they are idiots if I thought that they were, in fact, idiots.

~Ulrika~

That's where one would cross the line and suffer the wrath of LL.