Key an SUV
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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12-17-2005 10:48
From: Ulrika Zugzwang This thread was originally created to show how the middle class care more about their possessions than they do about the war overseas and suffering it has brought to both U.S. and Iraqi families.
Your reply to me is troubling because it shows something more extreme. It shows that you place the state of your material possessions above that of human beings, threatening even physical violence against a mother. That must be some hell of a car, eh?
~Ulrika~ No, I just dislike you intensely. And it'd be a good excuse to hit you  |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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12-17-2005 10:50
From: Kris Ritter No, I just dislike you intensely. And it'd be a good excuse to hit you What a terrible thing to say and what an awful way to deal with your feelings. ~Ulrika~
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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12-17-2005 10:51
From: Ulrika Zugzwang What a terrible thing to say and what an awful way to deal with your feelings.
~Ulrika~ aww. diddums. like you can talk. you don't need me to remind you of things you've said to people in these forums, do ya? I can start necroposting all your most infamous stuff to remind you if ya like? |
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Aurael Neurocam
Will script for food
Join date: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 267
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12-17-2005 10:56
From: Neehai Zapata I don't think anyone doubts that there are myriad excuses to drive an SUV.
Amazingly enough, not everyone drives an SUV so there must be some way that other people tackle the obstacles you overcome with your vehicle. How's this: I went from a Toyota Paseo: a 30-40MPG teeny tiny car to a gas-guzzling Ford Explorer that gets about 17-18MPG. I carry my daughter, musical instruments, TV's, computers, and all manner of things for both work and family. I couldn't do any of those with a small car. I would have bought a Dodge Caravan, but the Ford was a great deal - I bought it from someone else in my family for about $1000 less than blue book. Now here's what really upsets me about the kind of ingorant, elitist, Berkley-esque suggestion that we key SUV's because they're bad for the environment: the three minivans I used to to drive for work (Dodge Caravan, Ford Aerostar, and Ford Windstar) all got the same mileage as my Expedition. In fact, the EPA Estimate MPG for a 1995 Windstar is less than I get with my Explorer. So are people out keying mini-vans? I'll be that some of those tree-hugging leftover hippies are out there driving Caravans to their Earth Day Festivals where they protest against SUV's. So someone tell me why it's politically INCORRECT to drive a Ford Explorer, Chevy Suburban, or Jeep Cherokee, while it's perfectly okay to drive a Caravan, Windstar, or even full size pickup. It's not about environmentalism. It's about class envy and jealousy. It's about the fundamental hypocritical nature of humankind. It's about the fact that the Berkley crowd never actually thinks for themselves. They go to Communist Indoctrination Camp and come out good little Marxists, with a little bit of psuedo-environmentalism on the side. Come on, Ulrika. The next time you endorse vandalism to people who can afford better lawyers than you, at least be consistent. Say this instead: The next time you pull in to a parking lot next to an SUV, mini-van, pick up truck, moving van, 2-stroke motorcycle, classic car, or motor home, be sure to commit an act of vandalism. |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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12-17-2005 10:58
From: Kris Ritter like you can talk. you don't need me to remind you of things you've said to people in these forums, do ya? I can start necroposting all your most infamous stuff to remind you if ya like? Nothing you can post can justify threatening to beat a mother (maybe you'd like to take a swing at a child too). It cannot be excused using the actions of others and is something you need to take responsibility for yourself. ~Ulrika~
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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12-17-2005 11:00
From: Ulrika Zugzwang I promised I would post these photographs a few weeks back. They are images of a Hummer that has be vandalized in our neighborhood, no doubt by the same (albeit much more active) leftist ilk as myself. I was not involved in this in any way rather we were passing by on our way to the BART (subway) station to enjoy a family day together on the Friday after Thanksgiving (Buy Nothing Day). I am posting the pictures to show the kind of leftist rebellion that exists in some places of the city against consumer excess and as insight into where the "Key an SUV" thread came from.  The windows were knocked out on the passenger and driver's side and the wheels were flattened. The interior of the car was not harmed.   ~Ulrika~ All that happened is that a mechanic and a body shop would get some extra work, and your insurance rates go up.
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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12-17-2005 11:01
From: Ulrika Zugzwang Nothing you can post can justify threatening to beat a mother (maybe you'd like to take a swing at a child too). It cannot be excused using the actions of others and is something you need to take responsibility for yourself.
~Ulrika~ ..says a woman who after saying hurtful things to others insists it was a joke and they're taking it all wrong. But we already know what stuff you're made of. Hence the action you wish to incite and condone in the thread title, among your other gems. So keep on being shocked and horrified by my comment and I'll keep reminding you about pots and black kettles. |
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Damien Took
Meat Popsicle
Join date: 3 Dec 2004
Posts: 151
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12-17-2005 11:03
From: someone This thread was originally created to show how the middle class care more about their possessions than they do about the war overseas and suffering it has brought to both U.S. and Iraqi families. Do you read the news, not just the articles that fit your agenda; I mean all of the news? This has nothing to do with Americans and their possessions. We just removed a tyrant from power. Forget the politics for a minute and look at what you're saying. You'd rather leave Saddam in power, to torture those people and carry on like he has for years, because you don't want our troops over there? Did you see the turnout for the voting? Do you know how many Iraqi people are thrilled that Saddam is out of power? Do you know that they finally have some freedom after years of oppression? Oh and when one joins the armed forces they are usually aware that there is a good chance that they will be involved in something violent at some point during their tour. Do you understand the tactical advantage we have here? We were being threatened by terrorist groups so we brought the fight to them. Would you rather have it on our soil? They won't just go away because we have a democrat in office; they don't care who leads us...they just don't like us. |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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12-17-2005 11:06
From: Surreal Farber All that happened is that a mechanic and a body shop would get some extra work, and your insurance rates go up. I'd like to remind folks that I don't condone this in any way. This thread was a troll in a three part series to point out how folks care more for automobiles (and other such material possessions) than war casualties. With that said, in addition to increasing insurance rates it sends a message to the owner and all those who pass by. It's a guerrilla political tactic. ~Ulrika~
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
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12-17-2005 11:13
From: Ulrika Zugzwang It's a guerrilla political tactic. So's mine. It's about using physical violence against spineless cowards who indulge in petty vandalism of other people's property to give them some consequences to ponder. An eye for an eye, if you like. |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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12-17-2005 11:14
From: Kris Ritter But we already know what stuff you're made of. Hence the action you wish to incite and condone in the thread title, among your other gems. So keep on being shocked and horrified by my comment and I'll keep reminding you about pots and black kettles. The difference between you and me is that I take responsibility for my actions. When I go white-knuckled into a discussion, whether it be for cruelty, humor, or politics, I own what I say and don't need to justify my actions based on what others have written to me. You on the other hand, when threatening to beat a mother, need to absolve yourself of shame by using the perceived misdeeds of others as a defense. It's weak. To spare others this juvenile subplot, you can send me a PM or an email to continue this in private. However, my guess is that this is merely grandstanding and back peddling that's a result of you being called on your beat-a-mother statement and that you're not really interested in a resolution. ~Ulrika~
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
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12-17-2005 11:19
From: Ulrika Zugzwang The difference between you and me is that I take responsibility for my actions. When I go white-knuckled into a discussion, whether it be for cruelty, humor, or politics, I own what I say and don't need to justify my actions based on what others have written to me. Still in denial, are you? Did you read my last post? From: someone
You on the other hand, when threatening to beat a mother, need to absolve yourself of shame by using the perceived misdeeds of others as a defense. It's weak.
I have no shame to absolve myself of. If someone keys my car, I'm going to break their face. Because anyone who is that low is a worthless piece of shit. From: someone To spare others this juvenile subplot, you can send me a PM or an email to continue this in private. However, my guess is that this is merely grandstanding and back peddling that's a result of you being called on your beat-a-mother statement and that you're not really interested in a resolution. I don't wish to engage with you in private, thanks, and I don't feel the need to resolve anything. And how am I backpeddling? wouldn't that mean I'd have to take it back? Like I just reinforced, you key my car I'll damage you. Mother, pensioner, child or foetus. I don't think I'm backpeddling here, honest. |
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Damien Took
Meat Popsicle
Join date: 3 Dec 2004
Posts: 151
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12-17-2005 11:23
 These threads are so fun...hours of entertainment. |
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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12-17-2005 11:25
From: Damien Took These threads are so fun...hours of entertainment. aren't they though? |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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12-17-2005 11:31
From: Aurael Neurocam
It's not about environmentalism. It's about class envy and jealousy. It's about the fundamental hypocritical nature of humankind. It's about the fact that the Berkley crowd never actually thinks for themselves. They go to Communist Indoctrination Camp and come out good little Marxists, with a little bit of psuedo-environmentalism on the side.
Class envy and jealousy, over what exactly? While I may not be as militant as Ulrika on the issue of SUV's, my dislike of them has nothing to do with class envy or jealousy. I am more than able to buy any SUV on the market - but most of them (all of the American brands, anyway) are pieces of junk. They are not required to adhere to the same safety regulations or the same emissions requirements or the same fuel economy standards. They handle like crap and because of that, you are less able to avoid an accident on the road than you are in a car.
Detroit has worked hard at promoting the SUV in America for one simple reason: $! SUV's are the least expensive type of vehicle (besides trucks) to make and offer the highest profit margins.
There are many valid reasons to own an SUV - my parents own one and it is the perfect vehicle for them. My issue with SUV owners is that many of them, at least here in SF, don't necessarily need one. They could probably get the same utility from buying a wagon. But hey, this is America, so buy what you want - but when you end up in the ditch on your roof, don't come looking for sympathy from me.
Oh, and this little Berekley-hippie-tree hugger crap that some of you love to toss around is old and tired. Some people are actually EDUCATED consumers and also want to do what they can for the environment that we all share, yet do not associate with the more radical types. So, please quit with the cheeky labels.
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
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12-17-2005 11:37
maybe we should simply start keying sub-compacts? After all they are deathtraps.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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12-17-2005 11:40
From: Juro Kothari My issue with SUV owners is that many of them, at least here in SF, don't necessarily need one. I didn't know you lived in the City too! SUVs in SF drive me crazy. There is so little room for cars and parking as is, that it drives me nuts to see people cramming these giant things into the city. Just yesterday taking our baby to her four-month checkup (with shots  ), we saw this giant diesel SUV squeezing itself into 1.5 compact parking spaces in the hospital parking garage. It extended backwards out of its two spots far enough to block half of one of the two traffic lanes. Right next to it were several spots where SUVs had taken the center of a three-space set of parking spots. That is, there were three spaces surrounded by concrete supports and the SUV owners were taking the middle spot leaving about 85% of a space left on either side. Grrr. ~Ulrika~
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Juro Kothari
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Join date: 4 Sep 2003
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12-17-2005 12:03
From: Jumpda Shark Ummm... the vast majority of SUV's are misized vehicles and generally get equivelent gas milage as a car with the same sized engine. In other words a v6 Toyota Forunner SUV is going to get the same gas milage as the environmentally responsible V6 sedan.
The Toyota Camry (midsize) is EPA rated at 28mpg highway. The Toyota 4Runner 4x4 with a V6 is rated at 21mpg highway. So, clearly that is not 'the same'. You will see better gas mileage from car-based SUV's such as the Honda Element, CRV and others in that category (small) - but not from SUV's in the mid- to large-size categories.
From: Jumpda Shark
A friend of mine had a 2005 Chevy Suburban with the big V8 and all the bells and whistles. The vehicle got nearly the same gas milage as my little 1995 Mustang with a V6. 26 vs 28 mpg on the highway. I'm asking where is this huge gas guzzling SUV? It surprised the heck out of me, I was expecting like 10 or 12 mpg.
Your friend should call Chevy right away - I think they'd want to hear about this since thier own EPA figures list the best mpg for any model/engine combo on the Suburban at 20.
From: Jumpda Shark Much like most tree hugging "activists" they really don't know what they are talking about once they get into the real world. Take recycling for instance, seems like a really great idea . Get everyone to recycle their paper and bottles and you will stop the indian from crying. The fact of the matter is if you look at how much waste is produced by just one manufacturing plant on a daily basis and multiply it by the hundreds of thousands of plants in the US alone you will realize that one or two bags of separated trash generated a week in every typical household nationwide is nothing, it is a drop in the vast bucket compared to what businesses generate. It was also disclosed that most municipalities simply take these separated bins and dump the whole thing into the same landfill because no one wants the stuff. They do it so people "feel" better.
I have been recycling since I was a kid. Recycling is not something you do to make you 'feel' better, it is something you do because it should be done. Very few businesses will go above and beyond what they can get away with because it will usually have a negative affect on thier bottom line. That's understandable, since they are answering to stockholders who are always looking for better returns.
Getting our society to be more aware of and take action on environmental issues will have an effect on business when we quit accepting the status quo and start putting our money where our mouth is - with companies that treat the environment with respect. Only then will they decide that they should start recycling and paying more attention on what effect they have on our environment. Sadly, most of them will only take that step because it will be 'good for business' and not because it is the right thing to do.
I disagree with your tone in that you imply we have zero impact with our efforts, so why even bother. Getting industry to change is not an overnight deal and will take pressure from consumers and maybe even legislation to get them to shape up. The fact is, we only have this one planet for now - the replacement is on backorder.
From: Jumpda Shark You want to radically reduce the amount of oil burned in the world, cars are nothing, you need to go back to sailing ships. The amount a single ship burns is measured in tons per hour and the largest container ships burn 10 tons of fuel an hour. That's 10 tons of fuel per hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Now multipy that by the thousands and you get an idea of why there are oil shortages. The total fuel saved by buying that 40 mpg import instead of the 30mpg domestic is negligable when you take into account how much oil it took to bring it over here.
Where did you get those figures? I think it would be interesting to see a breakdown of the fuel consumption by type of vehicle for transportation. Considering the sheer number of cars/trucks in the world - I'm betting they still eat up a larger portion of the overall transportation fuel use.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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12-17-2005 12:18
From: Toy LaFollette maybe we should simply start keying sub-compacts? After all they are deathtraps.
Not ture, Toy. Small cars of the late 70's and early 80's were, but the new ones are safe - of course, you will probably fare better in a full-size sedan, but I'd still rather take my chances in an econobox than in a small truck.
Safety sells, so makers know that if they are to make headway with consumers - they need to make the small cars as safe as possible. For example, one of the smallest cars made today is the SMART - a brand owned by Daimler-Chrysler. SMART was the brainchid of the founder of Swatch watches and Mercedes-Benz. They wanted to bring out the perfect city car: very small, easy to park and safe.
The car is just over 8' long, yet in offset frontal crash tests, it performed as well as a Mercedes-Benz C-class - a car almost 15' in length.
Here's a pic of the car:
And here's a pic of one after an offset frontal collision with a Mercedes-Benz E-class (top-down view):
There are more pictures of crash results for this little car:
http://www.wheels.ca/News9cb2.php?CD=654&ID=2007
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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12-17-2005 12:23
You have been on fire lately with your technically accurate spot-on posts. To add to your technical content above, here's a wonderful (and fun-to-watch) video of a Smart Car bouncing off a concrete barrier at 112 kph (70 mph). The cage remained intact. ~Ulrika~
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
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12-17-2005 12:29
From: Ulrika Zugzwang You have been on fire lately with your technically accurate spot-on posts. To add to your technical content above, here's a wonderful (and fun-to-watch) video of a Smart Car bouncing off a concrete barrier at 112 kph (70 mph). The cage remained intact. ~Ulrika~
I love cars - both Cyrus and I are big car geeks and I've been following the SMART for some time. There is a company by the name of Zap! that is currently going through the final certifications for the SMART to be sold in California - it is already avialable in most other states. I may have to buy one when it comes out - it would be perfect for the city. It is so compact, you can park it nose-in in a parallel spot. Beat that! |
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Damien Took
Meat Popsicle
Join date: 3 Dec 2004
Posts: 151
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12-17-2005 12:31
I saw those all over in Japan. It caught me off gaurd at first...I thought they were for kids |
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
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12-17-2005 12:32
From: Juro Kothari
Not ture, Toy. Small cars of the late 70's and early 80's were, but the new ones are safe - of course, you will probably fare better in a full-size sedan, but I'd still rather take my chances in an econobox than in a small truck.
Safety sells, so makers know that if they are to make headway with consumers - they need to make the small cars as safe as possible. For example, one of the smallest cars made today is the SMART - a brand owned by Daimler-Chrysler. SMART was the brainchid of the founder of Swatch watches and Mercedes-Benz. They wanted to bring out the perfect city car: very small, easy to park and safe.
The car is just over 8' long, yet in offset frontal crash tests, it performed as well as a Mercedes-Benz C-class - a car almost 15' in length.
Here's a pic of the car:
And here's a pic of one after an offset frontal collision with a Mercedes-Benz E-class (top-down view):
There are more pictures of crash results for this little car:
http://www.wheels.ca/News9cb2.php?CD=654&ID=2007
OOoo I will stick with my Navigator I think
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"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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12-17-2005 12:34
From: Toy LaFollette OOoo I will stick with my Navigator I think |
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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12-17-2005 12:36
Do you guys know who Noel Edmonds is? I doubt his stuff travelled. But he was huge on British tv for a long time. Banal and trivial prime time entertainment type. Well aaaanyhoo. He has a car company. http://www.uniquemotorcompany.co.uk/These are the cars they offer:    Cute or what? (I dunno if they're particularly economical or anything  ) I think these kind of miniature compacts are going to become a lot more popular. So we'll soon be able to fit twice as many cars in the same sized traffic jam! |
