Key an SUV
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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10-30-2005 10:22
From: Roxie Marten <irate rant>
But, its a free country and you do as you wish. There's nothing wrong with informing people about the downsides of buying an SUV, especially to those who mindlessly buy them. There are plenty of folks out there who truly make use of them and where a regular car or wagon won't suffice. My parents live in Montana out in the country and need (yes, truly need) an SUV, but for every single person that really needs it, there are more who buy one because its 'cool' and don't place any thought into safety or the environment.
Saying you wished you bought a bigger one to piss off people is as stupid as telling people to key SUV's because they pollute. |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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10-30-2005 10:26
The BMW SUV, along with the Volvo and VW SUV's are vehicles that I would feel good in recommending. They meet very high safety standards (unlike most American SUV's) and they also produce low emmissions, similar to cars. Most American SUV's don't - they get to pass on that and produce higher emmissions due to some loopholes that classify them as light trucks.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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10-30-2005 11:07
This is silly. You don't go around keying SUVS. period.
You key the driver.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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10-30-2005 11:14
From: Kendra Bancroft
You key the driver.
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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10-30-2005 11:18
If I got nothing else out of this thread it was some good suggestions for a new car.  No kidding. It really has been a struggle getting around here lately and my husband and I have been discussing diesel vs gas vs best mileage vs ground clearance vs how much space we would need in a car vs environmental issues (we do care). Since it looks like I'll have a claim on mine (water actually came up over the wheels all the way inside) as well something hit it during the hurricane - I think it's time to trade it in and get something else. What I have now gets reasonable mileage (38 mpg), I'd like to get that or better at least, but I really do need better ground clearance and I need to be able to haul some things from home depot and to pull a small 14 foot boat. The problem with diesel is that stations are difficult to find around here - but maybe that will improve with the present situation? I would need to consider how stuck I would be with a vehicle like that if I did have to evacuate in the event of a really big hurricane. How available would diesel fuel be? Does anyone who has a diesel vehicle have an opinion on that? What are the alternatives out there for someone who does need something seriously reliable? Public transportation here in S. Florida is virtually non-existant and completely unreliable - BTW. People (myself included) voted twice for a bullet train between Orlando and here and somehow I guess it just is not going to happen even though I believe the proposition passed.  I can say this, IF public transportation were available, and RELIABLE, and safe, I would use it, but it isn't. Nor is there a very friendly bicycle environment (at least not here in S. Florida). For the most part you take your life in your hands the second you get on your bike here. Few bike paths and wierd traffic signal timing that encourages cars to run both you and pedestrians down. Not to mention looking for a place to secure your bike while in the store shopping - good luck with that. More than one person around here has had a nice walk home because their bike was stolen while they shopped. Overall - there are not a lot of places in the U.S. friendly to non-gasoline vehicle alternatives.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
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10-30-2005 11:30
Rose,
Unfortunately, there are no auto's that can meet all your needs that I know of. A diesel would be a great way to go - they get much better gas mileage and the new generation produce much less smoke and clatter noise. When the refineries finally get off thier asses and start producing the low-sulfur diesel formula that has been available in Europe for years, we'll see a whole new batch of (mostly European) diesel vehicles. Until then, your selections are pretty limited.
One option you might consider is the Toyota Highlander hybrid. It doesn't get nearly the MPG you're getting now, but it has the ground clearance and you should see MPG figures in the high 20's/low 30's. I am not sure if you can tow with the hybrid model, however - I was unable to find that info on Toyota's site.
With the Subaru Forester, you can tow up to 2000lbs. with the automatic and up to 2400lbs. with a manual. The mileage is going to be only in the upper 20's, however.
BTW - both Cyrus and I are car geeks, so if you have a question, let either of us know. 
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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10-30-2005 11:47
Heh.. I grew up in Texas, which is larger than many countries and hotter than hell in the summer. No public transportation to speak up. Bikers took their lives in their hands. And nearly impossi ble to live within walking distance of a grocery store. Those were the days. We had a family of 7 (grandma too) and we would load up an old Caddie and head for a campground most weekends. 3 Adults and 4 kids take up a lot of space.. and those old canvas tents. When Dad bought a van in the 70s we almost cried in joy. What a gas pig that was.
I have two modes of camping now. Full medieval camp or backpack. Pre-SUV I owned pick-up trucks. My current Mazda Tribute gets better gas mileage than my old Toyota truck and has the advantage of keeping the gear out of the rain.
This thread makes me think of people who throw paint on rich ladies wearing fur. I don't see those same protesters throwing paint on bikers and their leather.
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,970
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10-30-2005 11:55
From: someone This thread makes me think of people who throw paint on rich ladies wearing fur. I don't see those same protesters throwing paint on bikers and their leather. Umm, yea, that's because leather isn't made of fur. Am I the only thinking person in this thread?
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
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10-30-2005 12:02
From: Neehai Zapata Umm, yea, that's because leather isn't made of fur.
Am I the only thinking person in this thread?
I've been in shoes similar to Chip's, where I did not own a car for over 5yrs becaue I lived and worked in SF - didn't need a car and when I did, I would just rent one. Now, I need one due to new living location and new work location.
I would just like to get people to *think* about thier purchase and ask questions: how safe is it? can I make do with something less? what is the environmental impact?
Detriot loves to have people buy SUV's because they are the least expensive product to manufacter and they offer the highest profit margin. |
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,970
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10-30-2005 12:09
From: someone I've been in shoes similar to Chip's, where I did not own a car for over 5yrs becaue I lived and worked in SF - didn't need a car and when I did, I would just rent one. Now, I need one due to new living location and new work location. Same here. I lived in DC for 12 years and didn't own a car. In January of this year I moved to Charlotte, NC and bought a Prius. And I really do own a Dahon Helios and I really do love it. I can park in the $2.00 a day lots downtown and bike in. Otherwise I would have to pay $20 a day in parking. When Katrina hit and there was a gas shortage here people didn't think I was so crazy with my Prius and my bike. Half the stations were out of gas. There were long lines just to get the gas they had and the price was approaching $4.00 a gallon. For me it is all about practicality.
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Ursa Falcone
Rocket Scientist
Join date: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,989
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10-30-2005 12:12
ok, if you must key an SUV... it is much more effective to key it while it is on the Dealership LOT. It reminds me of when Anita Bryant spoke out about gays and lesbians - we started a campaign of stabbing holes in orange juice cans...back then it wasn't hard to do AND if worked! its hit them in their wallets. and she cahnged her tune - pun intended. SO, I think its more effective to do it while its stil onthe shelf. Just an opinion from the sage one. For those that forgot or didn't know, Anitia Bryant was the spokeswoman for the Florida Orangejuice Growers.
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From: someone Jeska Linden: I'm closing this thread because it's obviously overstepped the boundaries of useful conversation, even for the off-topic forum.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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10-30-2005 12:17
I think that as more people become aware of the gas prices, the Prius and other hybrid models look more and more appealing. My grandmother, who has always bought 'American', just sold her POS Impala and bought a new Prius. Of course, now she complains about getting 'only' 45mpg.
I bought an Audi A4 1.8T Quattro. I wanted all-wheel drive, because I go visit family on the other side of the Sierra Nevadas frequently and didn't want to have to put on chains in the winter and also wanted the grip of AWD. I chose the 1.8 Turbo engine vs. the 3.0 V6 because it got much better MPG and for $500 I could install a software upgrade that pushed my HP rating within 10 of the V6.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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10-30-2005 12:19
From: Ursa Falcone
For those that forgot or didn't know, Anitia Bryant was the spokeswoman for the Florida Orangejuice Growers.
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Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
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10-30-2005 12:27
Come here to Buffalo some time, and see if you have the energy to key an SUV every time you park next to one. You'll wear your keys down to tiny nubs within a few days. There are more SUV's here than most other vehicles combined. We get 3 feet of snow every day, 7 months a year. What exactly are we supposed to drive?
Better yet, forget the invitation to come up and see if you can scratch all the SUV's. Come up here in a few weeks when the blizzards begin, and see how long you last in your little Neon, or Pinto, or whatever it is you drive before you end up deciding to buy an SUV yourself. If you keep the Neon, don't worry. You'll be able to dig it out by May or so.
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Einsman Schlegel
Disenchanted Fool
Join date: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,461
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10-30-2005 12:35
Ok, so what about them hybrid SUVs hm? Still going to key those? Oh and btw, don't cry when you get caught and sent to court for destruction of property.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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10-30-2005 12:40
From: Chosen Few We get 3 feet of snow every day, 7 months a year. What exactly are we supposed to drive?
Hopefully, something with all-wheel drive and some nice ground clearance.
Yes, you could buy an SUV, but there are also other non-SUV options that meet the criteria. Growing up in Montana on the west side of the Continental Divide, we got a shitload of snow. Most folks had one of three cars: an old truck, SUV, or Subaru.
In your situtation, ground clearance is nothing w/o all-wheel drive. |
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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10-30-2005 12:43
All that said, I do believe in being conservation-minded when possible. But some of the greatest threats to the environment are the more extreme environmentalists themselves; they're unable to make a rational cost-benefit analysis, or so it appears/ Frex, there's nothing wrong with an SUV in itself; what's wrong is stupid people driving SUVs. SUVs shouldn't be the trendy thing you use to drive city streets to pick up the kids from soccer practice; when you do have an SUV, you don't probably don't need a Ford Expedition unless you're regularly shuttling around a football team. That said, if you DO live in the country - and there's a lot of country in North America as a whole - chances are a pickup or an SUV is an entirely rational choice. (My own rule of thumb: if you've never had to wash the mud off, you probably don't need one.  ) Or, for an older example, catalytic converters, which force you to use more gas in order to have fewer toxic emissions... and is inferior to using diesel, really. Or nuclear power (or rather, the protest against), which is still using a non-renewable (or at least, not easily renewable) fuel source, but with modern designs (not the old stuff that's managed to stay around in the US, or Chernobyl, but things like the French breeder reactors) you aren't using a lot and not producing nearly as much waste.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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10-30-2005 13:03
The most amazing thing about this thread is that people actually go camping.
I haven't been camping since 1984 with Girls Scouts.
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Beclamide Neurocam
3.14159265
Join date: 8 Oct 2005
Posts: 70
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10-30-2005 13:53
Last time I went camping was with a girlfriend in Spain.
As soon as my head hit my backpack I was asleep. She stayed up all night in case she got eaten by something and woke me up many many times to let me know she was ok.
I tell ya, by 6:00AM I was praying for something with big teeth to help me out
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Roxie Marten
Crumedgeon
Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 291
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10-30-2005 14:34
[ Saying you wished you bought a bigger one to piss off people is as stupid as telling people to key SUV's because they pollute.[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE] I really didn't mean that. I was just jerking his chain. I purchased exactly what I needed. In fact I took a tape measure to the dealer and measured the cargo area and compared it wih the amount space my stuff took up. For the record i own a mid size suv. Never been impressed with status symbol cars like the hummer. The guy I had posted that to must think I drive something 14 feet tall and 20 feet wide Rox |
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Roxie Marten
Crumedgeon
Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 291
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10-30-2005 14:37
From: Aliasi Stonebender All that said, I do believe in being conservation-minded when possible. But some of the greatest threats to the environment are the more extreme environmentalists themselves; they're unable to make a rational cost-benefit analysis, or so it appears/ Frex, there's nothing wrong with an SUV in itself; what's wrong is stupid people driving SUVs. SUVs shouldn't be the trendy thing you use to drive city streets to pick up the kids from soccer practice; when you do have an SUV, you don't probably don't need a Ford Expedition unless you're regularly shuttling around a football team. That said, if you DO live in the country - and there's a lot of country in North America as a whole - chances are a pickup or an SUV is an entirely rational choice. (My own rule of thumb: if you've never had to wash the mud off, you probably don't need one. ) I know what you mean. I am old enough to remember when it was farmers and hard hats who drove them. I like your quote about "wash the mud off" That's a good rule of thumb. If we ever sell the house and move back to the city the SUV will go too. Rox |
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Karsten Rutledge
Linux User
Join date: 8 Feb 2005
Posts: 841
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10-30-2005 14:48
From: Ulrika Zugzwang Next time you park next to an SUV, scratch it with your keys.
~Ulrika~ It's people like you that make the world suck. I only hope this was a joke. P.S. I drive a 6000 pound fullsize van with a bigass V8 that gets 11 MPG in the city, and I wouldn't drive anything else. |
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
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10-30-2005 15:02
From: someone P.S. I drive a 6000 pound fullsize van with a bigass V8 that gets 11 MPG in the city, and I wouldn't drive anything else. Sorry about your penis.
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
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10-30-2005 16:16
the subaru outback and impreza both have 4WD and come in station wagon format.
getting an suv to haul things around is the lamest thing i ever heard. why don't people just admit they get SUVs because they are the "cool minivan."
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
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10-30-2005 16:33
From: Karsten Rutledge I drive a 6000 pound fullsize van with a bigass V8 that gets 11 MPG in the city, and I wouldn't drive anything else. Hmmm. In your case, I wouldn't key the vehicle. I'd run over it with a Cat D-7 bulldozer. Tell me where you are, so I can do that. By the way, I drive an 8000 pound Dodge/Cummins diesel pickup truck, dually, 4x4.... I have good reasons to, and I get 21 mpg in the city. So - as Neehai points out - both my automotive phallic symbol and my reason for living are better than yours. |
