Roe v Wade...For Men

I don't think they do elective abortions in the delivery rooms either.

Since an abortion effectively terminates the man's responsibilities, not just the woman's, the analogy between this opt-out idea and an abortion is flatly incorrect.

I say again-if you aren't paying child support, kindly find the door. When you start paying court ordered child support then you can talk.

And, while it may be a baby-it's not his baby until he decides it is.

I should be able to go out and have wild monkey sex with whomever, whenever without having to pay a woman I may never want to see again for a kid I didn't want in the first place without being called names like dead beat dad.

Fatherhood is a private decision.

KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OUR WALLETS!

(Man! That's fun! )

Women want the right to abortion, we want the right to opt out. You call us dead beat dads-we call you murderers.

Seems like this whole thing would be moot if men and women started owning up to the conqequences of their actions. Just because it only takes one to carry the baby, doesn't change the fact that it takes two to make one.

Children are a blessing, and yes, a responsibility. Both men and women need to start showing some personal responsibility when it comes to sex. That is the position I have advocated from the beginning.

However...this whole thing brings up an interesting question: What if medical science found a way to implant an artificial womb in men allowing them to carry a donated (or bought) egg fertalized with their own sperm? How would women feel not being the only ones able to perform this feat all of a sudden? On the other hand, the same technique could be used for women who cannot conceive naturally.

Hmmm...I feel another thread coming on.

-Kiamat Dusk

They're done in the labor and delivery unit. Especially after the first trimester.

Men have no say in an abortion so the father who wants the child has no rights. Conversely, men also do not have a say in child support so the father who does not want the child again has no rights.

-Kiamat Dusk

I'm generally opposed to most abortions, and even I can see that this is nothing more than tit for tat nonsense motivated by spite, sour grapes, and pure selfishness.

Timing is everything...(missed your post while typing...)

What you say here is true. I just think the opt out idea is reprehensible.

I thought you just said they don't perform abortions after the first trimester there. Now you say mostly the abortions done there are after the first trimester?

edit: anyhow, it must be a small hospital, in my area the delivery room doctors don't do elective abortions. They are referred to a clinic.

I said that they aren't done for the convienience of the mother or her desire to end her pregnancy after 23 weeks. They are done for severe fetal abnormalities. And those aren't usually diagnosed until after the first trimester is over. I said, stop trying to confuse the issue.

edited to add: I stated that this was a level 3 University Hospital. Not a small town hospital.

I thought we are talking about elective abortions, not medically necessary abortions.

Exactly, but for some strange reason the two male anti-abortion zealots in this thread can't seem to grasp that simple bit of logic.

The point is, I'm sure you already know, only the woman can use abortion to opt-out of parenthood.

Fetal anomalies are not medically necessary abortions. The parent or parents elect to end the pregnancy because their fetus has a condition that is incompatible with life. A medically necessary abortion is done to save the life and/or health of the mother. There's a difference.

And in my experience, after 22 weeks, if a pregnancy must be terminated to save the mother's life, everything possible is done to save the baby.

Like I said, Kevn, quit trying to confuse the issue. If you choose to debate medical terminology with a registered nurse, I suggest you obtain a medical or nursing license first.

*hands Sio a rum & coke*



We aren't supposed to be talking about abortion in this thread, we're supposed to be talking about whether or not a man should take responsibility for a life he helped to create. You thread derailers....sheesh...

I hate that I'm about to say this, but...

I agree with Kiamat and Kevn on this issue.

Uggg... I feel dirty.

Anyhow.

Kiamat said part of it:



I'm of the opinion, like said elsewhere, that abortion should be safe, legal, and *rare*, in general. I don't *like* abortion one bit, but that's another issue alltogether.

But the fact is, quite simply:

Men are told, if you don't want to suffer the effects of having a kid, don't have sex. Period. Or, well, I guess turn gay, but that's not really a viable option for most men (Unfortunatly... )

Women are told, if you don't want to suffer the effects of having a kid, go get an abortion or put the kid up for adoption. Not having sex would help, but if you choose to, no problem, we'll fix it if you want.

And if the man WANTS the kid but the woman doesnt, the woman's opinion trumps the man, every time.

Even if abortions are discouraged, even if abortions are a Bad Thing(TM) and cause mental stress, the fact is, they have an option. An option that can, *legally*, be exercised at any point during pregnancy, even if the man wants the child and would be willing to take care of it on his own (I know a friend that that happened to)

With that in mind, if the man is going to be legaly have his legal rights cut off at the proverbial knee, I don't see why his responsibility shouldn't follow. It's really just a very intimate form of taxation without representation, if you want to boil it down to legalities and strip all humanity out of the issue.

That's me, licensed thread killer

*downs Sally's rum and coke in one big gulp* Thanks, I needed that!

Hey, I've got a completely crazy idea, let's actually log into SL and go clubbing

Haha, ummm give me about 3 more hours and I will go!

I tend to agree with you on this, Reitsuki. Which is why I support the "Shared Parenting" bills which are making their way through California and New York's senates. If a woman gets pregnant and then, expects the guy to pay for the kid, he should have the option of shared parenting with neither parent paying support to the other. They are both equally reponsible for the child.

I guess it would be a pain in the ass to implement, though, as both parents would probably have to reside in the same school district when the kid reached school age. However, I know a woman who's parents divorced and she lived with her mother on Long Island for 6 months of the year and with her father in New Jersey for the other 6 months. Neither parent paid child support to the other.

Ouch, Rei!


-Kiamat Dusk

Funny how there was no mention of the father helping to create a life in the abortion threads.

All of a sudden when we're talking cold, hard cash we remember that there's a dad involved. As The Church Lady would say, "How conveeeeeeenient!"

-Kiamat Dusk

Siobhan,

I brought up late term abortion to counter another poster's use of the term "viable"-not to derail the topic, but since you've brought it up, perhaps you'll answer a few questions.
Whether or not it occurs in your hospital...

1. Can a woman legally elect to terminate her pregnancy even as she is in natural labor?
2. Do you support that this should be a legally available option?
3. Has your vote gone to protect this "right"?

-Kiamat Dusk

I don't want to further derail this thread, but I'll be happy to answer you in a private message.

Umm funny how you didn't see mention of the fathers in any of the abortion threads, cause I know I said something at least once... If you're gonna make statements like that, it would be a good idea to be correct in what you say. Just sayin'

heh, if the woman is in labor, isn't the pregnancy about to be terminated once the baby is out? Or am I being too technical?